3M 6000 series full-face respirator...fit question

[Rachel]

Hi folks,

Northstar's recent recommendation for, and photo of himself wearing, his 3M 6000 series full-face respirator reminded me how much I would like to use mine, which I bought a few years ago, felt didn't fit properly, and abandoned for my tried-and-true half-face respirator and goggles. A combination that is nowhere near as satisfactory for jobs like overhead sanding and grinding (among others).

Working in a world of tools designed for average-sized men, I'm used to things being a bit large, but since the 3M 6000 series came in a Small, I figured I was good to go. I bought it, tried it, it felt like it fit horribly, and I put it aside.

Well, inspired by this:

respirator.jpg (27 KiB) Viewed 7739 times

I dug mine out again today and tried it on, playing with the adjustment and testing the seal by blocking the exhaust vent with my hand and trying to exhale. With some tweaking I was able to (try to) exhale gently and just get the "sealed balloon" effect; it took a slightly more forceful exhalation to get a leak near my temple (my "weak" spot) that sounded like one of those balloons going "Phffffflllllt." Okay, so this may be fine!

I think what gets me is this -- and I would like to know how this is on anyone else's 6000 series: There is an outer mask/seal (the "full-face" part) that goes around your forehead, down the sides, and just under the edge of your chin. This is the part I got to seal in my description above.

Inside that, is the "nose" part of the typical half-face respirator. This is the part that does all the sealing on a half-face respirator, going around your nose and down under the edge of your chin. I'm not sure why, but there is one of these inside the full-face part.

So, I felt like that should fit me, and even seal, like it does on my half-face model. I guess as a second seal. But that is impossible. Because the bottom of that inside nose piece is way below the "chin" of the outer seal. So when I have the respirator on and adjusted to seal the outer part, that inner nose part is not really even touching my face.

Is that how it is on a typical guy-sized one? Does the nose part on yours fit you just like the nose part on a half-face respirator? Or does it just lie there fallow like on mine, with all the sealing being done by the outer, facepiece ring?

I realize I could call 3M, but I would like to see how they fit others of us out there in the "real world" who have no need to feel at all defensive about "our" product (I may still call 3M later, of course).

Thanks for your input.

Rachel

[galleywench]

I'll take a look when I get home, but I don't think the inner seal is a particularly tight fit on mine either. I think its primary purpose (other than probably being re-purposed from the half mask model) is to direct your exhaled breath away from the face mask shield so it doesn't fog up. If there is a good seal around the outer 'flange' that provides sufficient suction for you to be able to bring air in through the filters and it doesn't fog up when you exhale then it shouldn't matter.

I'll double check though to see if there might be another function that I never thought of.

[Figment]

What he said.

It permits you to sneeze without the need to then exit the dusty area, vacuum your head, unhood, deglove, dismask, and wipe off the inside of the shield.

[galleywench]

Like a sneeze guard at a salad bar. Hope you are able to get it working for you. I can't speak highly enough of these things. You don't realize how much you are exposing yourself to when you only have a half mask. Sure, you don't sear your lungs, but I remember how my eyes used to burn when I only used a half-mask. It can't be good.

[Rachel]

It sounds like a seal on the "half-nose" section is not critical or even intended. I wonder if the nose-part might be a bit closer or better lined up on a Medium or Large model, because I don't even know if I could "sneeze down" enough to hit mine. But that's okay as long as I know it is not meant to be doing anything critical.

And I agree: half-mask and goggles are good, but nowhere near the same.

Oh, just thought of one other question, while people are here: I see that in Northstar's photo, he has a paint sock on and runs it into the respirator under the seal. It looks very nice and tucked in, and like it would eliminate "skin gaps," but I've always been a bit careful about avoiding putting anything under the seal on my other respirator. Maybe a holdover from my diving mask? Is that SOP with a paint sock? Does it allow fumes and dust in? (I'm not going to be painting with 2-part poly with this; just the usual painting and grinding.)

Actually, if it is okay, then a paint sock might help to take up the tiny, almost-gap at my temples.

Thanks for your input (and if anyone else would like to chip in, thank you too),

Rachel

[galleywench]

I've never worn a paint sock, but I have had trouble getting a good seal when I had a beard over the winter. I assume that those socks are very thin and fit uniformly around the seal (unlike my beard).

[Rachel]

Hmm, that looks a bit different than mine, although mine is also a 3M 6000 series. I will have to snap some photos to compare (and will post them here).

I think if I'm looking "into" mine like that, that the bottom of the inner nose piece would be way below the "chin part" of the outer rim, so there is no way I can get my chin "down" to meet up with that inner chin section of the nose part. In other words, if the bottom of the inner nose part were lined up with my chin, the outer seal's chin part would be up near the bottom of my nose (which clearly could not work).

This is great info - thanks.

Rachel

[Rachel]

I think the difference might be that mine is a size small. It seems as though the outer rim/seal is proportionately smaller than the inner nose piece.

I had to make an unexpected trip yesterday so I did not get a chance to take or post photos of mine. I'll do that as soon as I can, and will probably call 3M too, just to get their take on it.

[Quetzalsailor]

Obviously, anything you can stand will work better than something that will fail to seal to a beardie, like me! Got a sad lesson in that recently trying to use a new-style snorkel and face mask. They said to goop my mustache with Vaseline; I said Pffft!

The new style snorkel is great! It has a valve under your chin so that a little exhale clears the water from under your chin rather than having to blow it out the air intake.

I guess I'll look at fishies in an aquarium!

[Rachel]

I was out of town and so was not able to take photos of my respirator until now. Here are photos and some more details.

So, my respirator is 3M part number 07138, model number 6700 and is a size small. This is the same respirator as the 6800 (medium) and 6900 (large).

As these photos show, it looks like it would be basically impossible for one to have the outer seal just under one's chin (which is where it has to go) and to also have the nose-piece fitting (like the nose-piece does fit on a half-face respirator). I'm thinking it is because the way they make the small size be small, is to "build up" the light-grey band of rubber around the outside of the unit, which makes the opening smaller, but... look what it does at the bottom where one's chin goes: that area is quite a bit wider and puts the wearer's chin correspondingly higher up in the mask. But the nose-piece is still at the bottom like on all of the models, and so this makes it impossible to "reach."

Compare the chin section of that light-grey outer sealing rim on my respirator to the dark-grey one on Northstar's 6900 (same unit but size large instead of small):

northstar 6900.jpg (29.03 KiB) Viewed 7617 times

Box data from my 6700, for reference:

I have not called 3M yet - and at this point I'm fairly sure they are going to say it is normal - but if I do I will post back with what I find out. (Will have to prepare myself to possibly conceal annoyance with things that -- in their smaller or women's sizes -- are oftentimes clunkier adaptations of the large or "normal" size.) It seems like it might have worked better if the extra material used to reduce the size of the outside face opening had been at the top and not the bottom.

[mdidriksen]

Rachel:

I just looked at mine and it looks the same as yours but seals just fine. Only the upper 80% or so of the nose seal makes contact with my face, but when I put the mask on the outer chin seal sort of nests into the inner chin seal. It sounds like that isn't happening with yours and is the source of the problem. Is there a place you can bring it to and compare it to some others? Perhaps it's a manufacturing defect. I have to say, I think this mask is fantastic -- you will too if you can get it working.

MD

[Zach]

Rachel,

The 6000 series don't fit me either, as they don't seal tightly enough at my temples. Good enough for wood work, or a grinding face shield... but nowhere near good enough for grinding toxic stuff or painting.

3M makes a 6 strap model called the ultimate FX, for folks like us.

It took me a while to figure it out, as the 6000 series in medium fit me, but if I turn my head or look down I lose the seal no matter how tight or loose/perfectly placed the other straps are.

Almost everybody puts a paint sock on first, and then puts the respirator on... Your respirator is intended to be skin to skin, so rip the hole out wide enough to expose your face around where the respirator is sealing. You can pull pressure with the sock on, but if your filters start to clog up the air takes the path of least resistance. Spraying polyurethanes and atomized epoxies are just about the most lethal things anybody can do in a boatyard.

Zach

[Zach]

also...

Your mask needs to seal when you take off the filters and exhale lightly, to inhale and hold pressure. The reverse is true, that a hand over the exhalation valve/flap that you can blow into the mask lightly and have it hold pressure.

Most folks, may think they have a good seal... but infact don't. You've got to check...

Latex gloves on helps to make a seal at the filter ports, as my hands have a hard time making a seal. The lines run deep in those palms... I'm hoping good masks make the fortune tellers long life expectancy stay true. Big grin.

Zach

[Rachel]

Rachel,

The 6000 series don't fit me either, as they don't seal tightly enough at my temples. Good enough for wood work, or a grinding face shield... but nowhere near good enough for grinding toxic stuff or painting.

3M makes a 6 strap model called the ultimate FX, for folks like us.

I'll have to check that out - thanks for the tip!

(And... I really should call 3M on the other one.... calling them always seems to turn into an ordeal of voice menus and extensions and transferring... so I put it off.)

[Zach]

It is cooling down, its time to talk more about boats and work on them less. Grin. That's my story anyway.

I'm more active online during that time of year when you've got to watch the paint dry.

Zach