Design Your Dream Barn

[Tim]

OK, everyone. Let's have some fun here.

If you were building a barn for some serious boat work, what features would you include? What would be your priorities, and what features seem like they'd be the most important?

Things to consider include:

• Footprint Dimensions
  Building Material
  Interior Height
  Aesthetics
  Interior Layout--Shop, Office, Separate Bays, Etc.)
  Access--Shop and Man Doors
  Heating and Plumbing
  Storage
  So on and so forth...don't be limited by what's on this list.

I built a barn, and I love it--but there's always room for improvement and grandiose dreaming.

Let's hear what you would do. Everyone's thought about it...everyone must have an idea what they would like if the opportunity arose. Build your dream barn here!

[dasein668]

Well now. Of course you and I have discussed this to great length already, Tim. But I'll sum up my "wish list" just to get the ball rolling here...

I'd want a series of separate bays all opening into a dedicated shop space. This shop space would likely have a "clean room" sectioned off for varnish work. I'd like to see the shop minimum of about 20 X 30 with maybe a 10x10 varnish room. Small office and a bathroom would also be nice.

Bays would each be 15-18 feet by 40 with a roll-up door for loading the boats and LARGE doors opening onto the shop space.

Heavy duty dust collection in both the shop space and bays including good air exchange.

Overhead central vacuuming in each bay with retractable hoses. (Tim, you know what THIS is all about! hehe)

Covered spar storage.

I'd want radiant in-floor heating throughout.

I would want each bay (and possibly the shop) to have in-floor drains and sealed (maybe that heavy duty epoxy shop floor paint) floors.

Hot and cold water supplied to each bay (ideally) or at least to the main shop area.

Compressed air to all bays.

Lots of windows to maximize natural light. Overhead flourescents but with nice bright halogen task lighting for tools/benches.

Lots of good easy-to-clean, possibly "built-in" storage both in the shop and the bays.

That's a start. We're dreaming about the ideal space here, so of course I'm giving financing NO consideration at this point.

[Peter]

My barn would have a dropped floor in one bay to allow a boat to be backed in on the trailer with the water line level with the rest of the barn floor.... no more up and down and up and down ladders all day!

The dropped floor could be filled in with some small trusses and plywood covering when there was no boat there.

[Figment]

I'm formulating some thoughts. Based on "personal" boat work only, not for a commercial enterprise.

50X25, 22' ceiling.
Hoist beam down the center.
Large overhead door at one end. Large swinging or sliding door at the other. Man-doors (42x96, please) as necessary.
Wooden floor, even if it's just 3/8" ply laid over concrete. Saves the body as well as the tools.
Drainage is a good idea.
No radiant floor heat. I might want to do a wooden boat someday. Forced air heat, preferably with humidity control. Heck, throw in AC while you're at it. Woodstove for ambience.
8x8 office with large table for drawing layout.
Bathroom with shower (critical!!). Slopsink out in the main area.

The office/bathroom module should be about 1/3 of the way down one of the long walls, creating two alcoves. The smaller one for engine work, the larger one for woodwork. I have this thing about constantly angering myself when I allow my mechanical tools to mingle with my woodworking tools.
The "engine" alcove should be at the "front" end of the building, because in reality it's likely to be used for automotive work as well as marine.

I've never been fond of central vac systems, but a central dust-collection system would be nice for the woodworking alcove.
Compressed air is easily piped to wherever it's needed.

I think nathan's comments on daylight and artificial light are pretty well considered. Put me down for some of that.

[dasein668]

Hoist beam down the center.

Oops, yes, Me too! One for each bay, thanks.

Wooden floor, even if it's just 3/8" ply laid over concrete. Saves the body as well as the tools.

Good point, though I like the water-proofness of concrete... good for powerwashing bottom paint, and the like. Tough call there.

No radiant floor heat. I might want to do a wooden boat someday.

Good point. I do like the evenness and efficiency of radiant though.

Woodstove for ambience.

Nice for ambience, though open flames in a building with potentially flammable fumes.... not sure about that one! hehe. Seriously though, its probably not an issue, and it IS nice!

The office/bathroom module should be about 1/3 of the way down one of the long walls, creating two alcoves. The smaller one for engine work, the larger one for woodwork.

I like this idea alot!

I've never been fond of central vac systems

Yeah, but after fighting a heavy shop vac up and down onto the boat over and over and over... Plus the retractable hose would be really nice?keep that dusty hose from leaving hose marks all over your nicely vac'ed boat!

[Tim]

50X25, 22' ceiling.

Is that ceiling height to accommodate something specific? Just curious.

My barn would have a dropped floor in one bay...

I like that idea. It would work particularly well if the building was built on a slope, so that one bay would naturally be lower than the rest.

Of course you and I have discussed this to great length already, Tim...

Indeed. I echo most of Nathan's ideas because he and I came up with them together. Of course all these ideas are in raw form.

I LOVE the windows in my barn. (Thanks, Fig!) With the southwest exposure, the barn is brilliantly bright on a sunny day, and bright on cloudy days. Fantabulous.

Were the multi-bay shop to ever be built, it would be imperative that there be not only the clerestory windows in the sunniest wall, but also that there be glass or lexan windows built into each of the bay dividing walls to allow light to transmit to even the inside bays. Skylights or translucent panels (in a metal roof) would also be good for the inside bays.

I like the multiple bay idea because it would allow more efficient working on two or more boats. With large openings between the bays, each other, and the shop, the building could be made fairly open if desired, or bays shut off for grinding, painting, or varnish. Of course, the multi bays would be unnecessary for single-boat owners, unlike me--or if there was no hint of a possible commercial venture.

Attached office/bathroom/shower space is one of those things that had to be compromised out of my existing barn--would have been nice, but unnecessary in this instance. Any subsequent structure will incorporate both.

Anyway, this is only to be an open exchange of ideas. More later...keep posting, everyone! Come on....you know you've thought about it.

[Tim]

Yeah, but after fighting a heavy shop vac up and down onto the boat over and over and over...

Nathan and shop vacs go together like Hunters and Herreshoffs.

I sure do get some comic relief watching the show, though!

[Figment]

Methinks you need a smaller shopvac. I have one that's about the size of a 5gallon paint bucket. I carry it in one hand and work the hose with the other. nothing to drag but the cord, and it has just as much suction as my larger shopvac.

I'm glad you like the way your windows worked out, Tim. However, I think it's important to mention that southwest glass can be a heat-gain nightmare if not carefully controlled. I think that you duck this problem because the windows are tucked up under the eave of the roof, which steals some of the direct sun in the summertime. North light is actually best for general light. (all assuming a northern-hemisphere location, of course)

I think it's important to have some clear glass at eye level so you can have some sense of climate when working indoors all day long, but for general daylighting of a workspace, I think I'd favor a soloution that involved a good portion of the roof being a translucent material like calwahl (sp?). It's louder than a tin roof in the rain, but it does give great light. The heat loss may make this impractical in the Maine climate. I'm thinking of something for latitude 42 or lower.

The dimensions are a punt, really. Roughly based on what I'd want for working on a 41 Rhodes or a Concordia or something like that. 7' draft plus 4' topsides puts the deck at 12', cabintop at 14'. 8' clear over the top of the boat seemed like a good place to start.
Also, if you go much lower than 22' in a 50X25 space, it'll start to feel a bit squattish.

The wooden floor could be epoxy-painted (actually, I'd insist. a nice soft grey.) to be able to stand up to occasional washdowns.

[Tim]

The wooden floor could be epoxy-painted (actually, I'd insist. a nice soft grey.) to be able to stand up to occasional washdowns.

You could also go with PT plywood, which might even be a necessity if you were just laying the ply directly on the concrete floor. Painting would still be good because it would make a smoother, easier-to-clean surface.

I was thinking that the shop portion of this multi-bay shop would benefit from a false floor above the concrete--some joists with plywood over. This way, it would be easier to run wiring and ductwork for dust collection to the shop tools in the center of the floor. And there's no doubt that working on a concrete floor is tough on the back and feet. Currently, I have several rubber shock mats placed at key locations (behind benches, and at the table saw) to ease the strain of working on concrete.

Other things to consider (though these could be in a nearby separate building or attached dedicated wing):

• Dedicated wood storage area
  Dry, clean storage room for boat gear and materials

Obviously all this is reaching. But that's the idea.

[bcooke]

I think it's important to mention that southwest glass can be a heat-gain nightmare

Can it GET too hot way up there in the North?...

-Britton

[JetStream]

I like the radiant floor idea. If a wood boat is in the offing, a humidifier with control would probably be a good idea. Even for regular woodworking it is handy to have even humidity. The radiant slab has to be rather thick and reinforced for the high loading from the keel blocking. An epoxy finish would make it easy cleaning. Wood or rubber mats could be used where a lot of time is spent on the concrete. I also believe in good insulation so that air conditioning would be possible. Because of the fumes in the area, the boiler and combustion air for the radiant heat, has to be separated by a code wall.

I want my shop to be 30' x 60' so I could get two boats side by side if I needed to. I'm debating whether it would make sense for all the structure required for an overhead hoist or would it make more sense to have a portable gantry on casters. I would like to have minimal height dollies that can hold 20,000 pounds, so I could move the boat(s) around when needed.

I want the entire end of my shop to hinge open (it would have casters to roll on a track to the open position) to allow access for any size that fits inside. Then, I want regular garage doors in the end so the building doesn't look like a monstrosity.

The compressed air system will have a refrigeration style air dryer and filter setup for good paint jobs.

In addition to central vacuum/dust collection, the ceiling should have a track system for dust curtains to separate projects.

I want the boat shop to have a direct access to my machine/wood shop in a single story adjacent area.

The head facilities/shower is a must. A double slop sink is also a must. I would also add a fairly serious steel, chemical storage locker that would pass OSHA muster. A small spray booth would be great for small parts and little varnish jobs where dust could be a problem.

[Peter]

... and who was it that said "Above all else, Go Sailing" ? I think it was Jerry Powlas of Good Old Boat magazine.

[Tim]

... and who was it that said "Above all else, Go Sailing" ? I think it was Jerry Powlas of Good Old Boat magazine.

No one here is foregoing sailing in favor of projects--that one reason this little group seems unique.

That doesn't mean there isn't plenty of project opportunity, though! Ridiculously, here in Maine the non-sailing season is 2 months longer than the sailing season! (5 months in, 7 out...)

Shop and indoor work is a necessity for the boating-obsessed, barring a relocation to warmer climes.

[Tim]

...would it make more sense to have a portable gantry on casters...

Some sort of portable, wheeled gantry is something I would like to have currently. Unfortunately, its conception and construction continually gets postponed in favor of getting some stuff done in the shop. A structure with an I-beam at the top and an I-beam trolley, with the whole thing on wheels, would allow loads to be lifted and then rolled from side to side as well as end to end, as long as sufficient floor space around the boats remained. Ultimately, the utility of this sort of arrangement would probably exceed dedicated hoist beams inside, as the portable unit could be used outside, or in multiple bays, or what have you.

I would like to have minimal height dollies that can hold 20,000 pounds, so I could move the boat(s) around when needed.

Me too! Have you come up with a concept that is workable and ready for implementation? The ability to move boats is something that is sorely lacking for me, and I want to create something like this myself. Again: the implementation of this tends to get put off indefinitely, as I seem to manage to continually have a full plate. Any thoughts appreciated.

[JetStream]

My current concept is for a two axle cart. The axle would be a welded "I" beam for an underslung concept. Each axle would have two swivel casters on each end, for a total load capacity of 24,000 pounds. The casters I've seen are polyurethane molded onto steel wheels, and several companies make them with a 3000 pound rating for a 10" wheel. I think 10" is the minimum practical diameter of the caster to have these things be able to pivot and roll. I would try to keep the cart to about six feet by six feet and have a welded "I" beam box around the device (welded to the ends of the axles and the keel beam). It would have a welded keel beam that is only the height of the beam + 1-1/2" wood cribbing + about 2 inches ground clearance. I would plan to put slide-out outriggers on the cart that have adjustable "poppet" supports.

Getting the boat on and off the cart is a challenge. When I think of devices like sling-jacks etc., I wonder if it might not be easier to build a small travel-lift that can do both jobs at once. So maybe a travel-lift with each of the four posts having four swivel casters would actually be simpler in the long run.

[grampianman]

For a 'personal' boat barn here in SW Florida, I would build a 20 X 50 foot pole barn with a ceiling of 20 feet. No sides, though depending on the project, tarps could be dropped and tied down to keep out the wind on those cold January days, or days when painting is being done. No need for facilities, just walk to the house. Fibreglass panels in the roof for natural lighting, fluorescent as needed. Cement floor. Lots of scaffolding, although a small scissor lift might be cool. A gantry crane being able to run the length of the barn and go side to side would also be great. I would like a weather proof area to properly store all wood, yet allow easy access to the wood when needed. Of course, a good pest control company as cockroaches love to live in the spaces between wooden planks or pieces of plywood and then make a real mess of the surface! Termites are a lesser problem as long as the area is treated.
Ah, to dream. Thanks for the thread.

Cheers,
Ian
G-23, Wing and a Prayer

[dasein668]

Again: the implementation of this tends to get put off indefinitely, as I seem to manage to continually have a full plate. Any thoughts appreciated.

Hmmm, lessee.... 3 personal boats, 1 spec boat, an RV... Your plate is full? Thoughts: Crazy!

=P

Or was that not the sort of "thoughts" you meant?

[Tony]

As far as gantry's and slings go, I'd think a setup with an I-Beam the width of the building that rolls on two beams (think of an H, but with the center dash moving up or down) and slings that operate from the I-Beam would do an admirable job AND stay out of the way. You could make them motorized or just have some rigging, but if the roof supports were engineered right, I don't see why you couldn't use this setup to move anything, including boats. Maybe two of the cross beams with slings for a travelift type support would work better.

Other than that, Air drops from the ceiling for air tools would be great, especially if the drops were retractable. Built in floor drains would be a must, and finally, a 500 watt stereo system (you know, to overcome all the sanding and equipment noise and to annoy the neighbors) would be great too :-)

Just my .03 (inflation, you know)

[Figment]

A dolly for moving the boat(s) around.

I have an idea. If a basic adjustable steel cradle and a cheap metal bed frame were to mate, their offspring might look like this:

Take your basic adjustable boat cradle. Steel frame, four screw-jack poppet-type supports.
Saw it in half so that you have two U-shaped sections, a forward section and an aft section.
Create a union beam (think of the center beam in a kingsize bed frame) that serves to support the keel and rejoin the two halves.
Attach superduty casters to the four corners and to the ends of the union beam.

There you have it. A cradle (on wheels) that can be installed under the boat with little more than a bottle jack.

Really though, the wheels shouldn't be necessary on a concrete floor.
Use that bottle jack to raise one end of the cradle at a time. Toss some playground sand on the floor, slip a couple of 2' squares of 3/4" plywood under the corners of the cradle, and scoot the whole deal around with the aid of a come-along.