Collecting Triton info

[bcooke]

As some of you may have figured out, I love data, spreadsheets, databases, useless trivia., cataloguing, ect.

Well, you may also have guessed that I keep records of Triton trivia. Being as it is a rainy day I wanted to post a request for info.

I have a list of Tritons, their whereabouts, and their owner's contact info as gleaned from various public internet sources (NTA/NETA/CBTA/TODSF lists, classifieds, and such). If you are listed anywhere I probably have you in a list somewhere.

Today, I am working on a database cataloguing changes in production over the years; mostly Bristol RI (east coast) built Tritons but eventually I hope to include the west coast crowd. Since I have never actuallly SEEN a west coast Triton in person I am a bit lost when trying to classify them.

I will take any info I can get but here are the big design changes and what I am looking for:

Hull#
Who made (Pearson or Aeromarine)
Year of manufacture
Original rig (i.e. fractional, masthead, yawl)
Original mast type (tapered or straight - length is a bonus)
Maybe info on forward lower shrouds although this is pretty cloudy with so many after market installations - maybe skip this.
Headliners. Some Tritons had none, some were saloon only, others were saloon, v-berth and head area
Ballast, internal or external.
Bilge, deep or shallow
Deadlights/ports bronze or aluminum
Maststep, wood or aluminum or whatever else

and the trickiest one; deck style.

There are roughly four styles that I know of with some extra minor variations. I will condense the four with a quick summary and try to at least get close. Concentrating on the aft/poop deck;

Type 1: Raised taffrail with no cutouts for scuppers or drains no round raised section for aft nav light, side opening cockpit lockers (so-called death lockers). As far as I know only the very early Tritons had this pattern

Type 2: Raised taffrail with cutouts for scuppers, no round raised section for aft nav light, side opening cockpit lockers

Type 3: Raised taffrail with cutouts and a round raised section for the aft nav light. Top loading cockpit lockers.

Type 4: Wooden taffrail and toerail, higher forward cabin section.

If it is raining and you are bored too then you can post any or all info or just PM me whatever you feel like. If anyone wants to share their information I will be happy to pass along what I have.


Please note my privacy statement:

If you give me any data, I will give it to any other non-commercial interests that asks based on my own discression.

Thanks!

P.S.

Just to be clear since I also manage the NETA membership database:

The NETA database has member contact data and other information that is not for public viewing. NETA honors requests to not display this information publicly or otherwise distribute it.

NETA info and my personal info are distinct and I do not mix the two. Anything I can share is from my personal files only and also readily available (albeit with an obsessive search complusion) on the internet or other public sources.

NETA has its own privacy policy but I just thought I should add a note here. Any privacy concerns can be directed to me or the Commodore of NETA.

[Rachel]

Edited because information did not suit thread.

[bcooke]

Yeah, that's a good intro history of the Sausalito producton facility which produced (very) roughly about 100 boats. Hard to tell exactly how many because Pearson just gave them groups of hull numbers to use. No one is really sure how many of the assigned hull numbers were actually used.

Like most of the Triton lore out there, you have to take it with a big grain of salt. Contradictory information abounds. That's why the only good source is to go directly to the boats themselves and compare.

[Rachel]

Good point; perhaps that was too general/speculatory. Let me give you some data from a Triton I looked at, as pennance for missing the point ;)

Hull #295
Builder: Pearson
Year: Not sure, maybe 1961 (1963? Why didn't I get a close up of that plaque...)
Original rig: Fractional, I think (boat had been dismasted and mast replaced with modern section, but it was [still] fractional).
Mast type: Had been replaced with modern section.
Forward lowers: None on boat.
Headliner: Yes in saloon; no forward of saloon.
Ballast: External
Bilge: I would say shallow, since it had external ballast.
Deadlights/portlights: Bronze
(Forward facing ports had two dogs apiece; not sure if that is significant.)
Mast step: Not sure
Deck style: Top-opening cockpit lockers; not sure about the other details.
Name: Original, and when I looked at it: Cero (there was a dedication plaque to the original owner, from friends, above the galley with that name and the year)
Where/when: Baltimore, MD; 2004

[bcooke]

<sigh>

Headliner?... in 2005 #195 was reported as having no headliner...

Some say this is an impossible task :-(

[Rachel]

Ulp, I'm sorry. It was 295. I went back and edited my post.

I'm going back to perfectionism...

R.

[tikvah59]

Hull# 59
Who made (Pearson or Aeromarine) Pearson
Year of manufacture Probably 1960
Original rig (i.e. fractional, masthead, yawl) Masthead yawl
Original mast type (tapered or straight - length is a bonus) Untapered - 33' 5"
Maybe info on forward lower shrouds although this is pretty cloudy with so many after market installations - maybe skip this.
Forward Lowers - Yes
Headliners. Some Tritons had none, some were saloon only, others were saloon, v-berth and head area No headliner
Ballast, internal or external. External
Bilge, deep or shallow Shallow
Deadlights/ports bronze or aluminum Bronze, unchromed
Maststep, wood or aluminum or whatever else Cast Aluminum


Deck Style: Type 2
Type 2: Raised taffrail with cutouts for scuppers, no round raised section for aft nav light, side opening cockpit lockers

Mark

[Rachel]

Wow, #59/1960 has internal ballast? That's interesting.

:as Britton tears his hair: (in a good way)

[Tim]

I think it would benefit Britton's cause more if the only information posted here was factual and about specific boats. There are way too many broad, sweeping, and often incorrect generalizations, and his point here is to narrow down the specifics with hard information, not unsubstantiated lore--plenty of which already abounds online, and plenty of which has been proven incorrect time and again.

Britton already knows the specifics of my boat, and the others I've been involved with, which is why I'm not posting it now. No need to duplicate information.

[Robert The Gray]

B,

Is there a way to check what info you have on our boats? I know I entered my data into a matrix on some site or other.I would love to tell you all but do not want to clutter.

r

[bcooke]

Certainly!

Though I really don't have much on this new venture- maybe 30 boats. I am away from the database(s) at the moment but I will pass on what I have and you can correct it and send it back at your leisure.

And since you have shown some interest...

I believe you are in a much better place to identify key changes in Sausalito built Tritons. Maybe you would have some suggestions as to what changes would be worth noting?

I appoint you, Robert, to head up the west coast division of this important fact finding mission. Congratulations and Good luck!

[Tim]

I appoint you, Robert, to head up the west coast division of this important fact finding mission. Congratulations and Good luck!

Boy, Robert, one quick comment and suddenly you've been appointed to a lofty position of great responsibility. If that doesn't teach you not to open your mouth, nothing will! hehe

(and feel free to ignore Britton's appointment. He has no power whatsoever--just likes to think he does.)

[john]

Hull # 451
AeroMarine, 1963
Fractional rig
Straight mast, unsure of the length,
Headliner? Just the fiberglass liner.
Internal ballast
Deadlights, Bronze frames, Both large and small ones. All non opening except for the one by head.
Aluminum maststep
Deck style #3

Cockpit locker lids are fiberglass, I've seen very few like that. Most seem to be wood.

[bcooke]

Thanks John,

Maybe I should admit that my research so far as been very East Coast- centric. Categories like 'deck style' are not going to apply to the West Coast variants. To date, I don't have enough knowledge of Aeromarine built Tritons to identify any key features that would help to classify them.

'Headliner' is indeed the overhead fiberglass interior liner that was generally added to east coat boats between #285 and #295. Originally, it appears, headliners were only installed over the saloon and only the later boats have a 'full' headliner which included the head and V-berth areas. Of course lists like this one are made just to answer these 'important' questions with more authority.

On another interesting note, in my general listing there is a note for #451 that suggests that it might have been the last Triton ever built by Aeromarine. That is a nice little bit of history for you :-)

[jhenson]

Triton 114:

1960

Fractional Rig

Tapered Mast

Forward Lower Shrouds Added

No Headliner

Bronze Deadlights

Aluminum Mast Step

Deck Type 2

Joe

[Triton 185]

Hull# 185
Who made - Pearson
Year of manufacture - 1960
Original rig - fractional
Original mast type - straight 38'
No forward lowers
No headliners
External lead
Bilge - shallow
Deadlights/ports - bronze
Maststep - aluminum

Type 3: Raised taffrail with cutouts and a round raised section for the aft nav light. Top loading cockpit lockers.

[Figment]

#78 deck type 2-1/2. The boat did not have top-opening cockpit lockers, but does have the raised base for the stern light.

[bcooke]

I-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g...

#'s 59, 100 and 114 don't/didn't have the base for the stern light.

I will have to update my deck criteria now.

Did #78 originally have a tapered mast? I seem to recall a mention of that.

[Tim]

#158 also does not have the round molding for the stern light.

[Zach]

Hull#101 Actual build number = 234
Pearson
1961
Fractional
Straight Mast
No lower forwards, has lower afts.
Headliners. None, just the bottom skin of the deck.
Haven't hauled her out, but she has keel bolts humps in the bilge.
Shallow bilge
Ports and Deadlights: Bronze All ports open.
Maststep, aluminum

Deck: Type 3

[jollyboat]

Hull# 346 & 466
Who made (Pearson)
Year of manufacture ? ?
Original rig (fractional)
Original mast type (straight -38)
no forward lowers
Headliners. saloon only
Ballast, 466 internal 346 external.
Bilge, 466 deep 346 shallow
Deadlights/ports bronze
Maststep, wood (plywood)

Type 3: Raised taffrail with cutouts and a round raised section for the aft nav light. Top loading cockpit lockers.

Accept for the bilge depth there is very little differece between 346 and 466. 466 does feel strangely lighter in weight but I cannot prove that.
Hardware is identical accept for the shift lever socket deck fitting

[Triton 53]

#53

Bristol R.I.

my Bill of Sale / title says 1961 ??????

Original rig (???) Fractional
Original mast type straight 37' 1/2"
Maststep aluminum

no headliners
bronze deadlight & ports (opening)

deck type #2

[Figment]

Did #78 originally have a tapered mast? I seem to recall a mention of that.

I'm not sure that I have any factual info on the original mast. I'll rummage and report back.

I'm FAIRLY certain that the base for the stern light is an original integral component of the deck mold. I had it down to bare glass during the deck rebuild, I think, and I don't recall noticing that it was an add-on.

[bcooke]

Just to provide some prelimary info for the people that contributed...

I don't have enough info to make any statements about Aeromarine built Tritons.

For the Pearson built Tritons:

No real info on tapered masts. It seems most of them have been replaced quite a while ago. I had heard the switch was made around #100. #114 has a tapered mast so it either an odd choice for a replacement or the tapered masts were around a bit longer that first thought.

Forward lower shrouds are a bit spotty too. Pearson sent out upgrade kits so some boats have them, some don't. I couldn't determine if Pearson ever installed them in new boats.

First known headliner was installed on #295 in the saloon only. Right up to #668 there is a mix of boats with full headliners and saloon only headliners. I think there is confusion as to what people thought the question was. I can't imagine Pearson going back and forth on this one.

Last external ballast seems to be Tim's #381 or very soon after. #385 had internal ballast.

#577 had bronze ports. #605 had aluminum. The switch occured somewhere in here.

The mast step changed from aluminum to wood between hulls #273 and 285

And now deck styles. #78 messes up the four deck style theory. So now we know there are probably 5 deck styles out there (along with some other minor versions)

#1-30 had deck style 1

#53-100 had deck style 2 (#78's version is in here somewhere)

101 had deck style 3. 114 had deck style 2. There is a growing amount of evidence to suggest that that boats did not come off the line consecutively. Or rather, the hull#'s didn't proceed consecutively with boats coming off the line. I know of at least one other boat that had the hull # 'reserved' and was assigned out of sequence.

#185 had deck style 3 and this style seems to have continued until somewhere between 646 and 660. The actual switch to the fourth deck style is a bit muddled and further suggests that hull #'s did not proceed in order.

#660 and #646 reports deck style 3. #660, 662, and 668 reports deck style 4.

The whole 'deck style' theory may have to be tossed out. Without a closer look at all these decks it is possible the decks changes quite frequently. I guess on a good note, survey's like this help sort between the good theories and the bad ones.

Just wanted to let people know what I have. As the list fills in better I will probably link to the spreadsheet.

[Rachel]

First known headliner was installed on #295 in the saloon only. Right up to #668 there is a mix of boats with full headliners and saloon only headliners. I think there is confusion as to what people thought the question was. I can't imagine Pearson going back and forth on this one.

Unless it was an option/upgrade during the transition? Maybe after a short while they just decided to make it standard. Not that we'll ever probably know; I'm just musing aloud.

R.

[Case]

Interesting...

Thinking on the deck and headliner style differences... I think what happened was that Pearson had at least 2 different deck and headliner molds at the same time. At busy times, they made use of both molds.

Most times when a builder moves to a newer mold, they discard/destroy the old mold. Pearson did not always do this, remember the Alberg 35 fiasco? Some Ericson people picked up the Alberg 35 mold (after Pearson was done with it) and modified it into the boat called the Ericson 35 MKI. After that happened, Pearson almost always destroyed their old molds.

Pearson certainly wasn't a consistent builder in the early 1960s so my theory may hold some water...

- Case

[Challenger949L]

Hull# 662
Who made - Pearson
Year of manufacture - 1966
Original rig - fractional
Original mast type - straight 38'
No forward lowers
main cabin headliner
Internalernal lead
Bilge - deep
Deadlights/ports - Aluminum?
Maststep - Mystery material

Type 4 deck (wooden toerail)

Jimmy Small

[Icefire]

Hull# 648
Who made Pearson
Year of manufacture 1966
Original rig Fractional
Original mast type Straight
No forward lowers
Headliners. saloon only
Ballast, internal
Bilge, deep
Deadlights aluminum
Maststep, wood
Deck Style 3,

[TritonSailor]

Hey Britton,

Sorry to wake a dead thread...That rhymes:)

Hull#: 194
Who made: Pearson
Year of: 1960
Original rig: Frac
Original mast type: Straight
Headliners: None
Ballast, internal or external: How do you tell?
Bilge, deep or shallow: How do you tell?
Deadlights/ports: Bronze
Maststep: Alumin
Deck Type: Type 3 Raised taffrail with cutouts and a round raised section for the aft nav light. Top loading cockpit lockers.

Does that go along with the info you have?

If some one could give me a hand on the ballast and bilge, I'll be complete.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Allen]

Hull# 158
Who made Pearson
Year of manufacture 1960
Original rig fractional
Original mast type straight
Headliners. None
Ballast, external
Bilge, shallow
Deadlights/ports bronze
Maststep, aluminum

Type 2: Raised taffrail with cutouts for scuppers, no round raised section for aft nav light, side opening cockpit lockers

Note: Side opening cockpit lockers removed and replaced with top opening aluminum hatches. The only original cutout remaining is the aft one which now houses the engine control panel as seen in the picture Tim submitted.

[Tim]

If some one could give me a hand on the ballast and bilge, I'll be complete.

If you can reach the bottom of your bilge, you have the shallow bilge. I know that you have the shallow bilge based on your hull number and the type of ballast you have.

Your boat has external ballast. You can tell because it's external (i.e. scrape the paint and you ought to see lead), and also, if that isn't enough, because you'll see glassed-over nubs in the bilge that represent the keel bolts. Internal ballast boats have no bolts, and you'll find only fiberglass outside if you were to scrape the paint.

Tritons can't have external ballast and deep bilges in combination; the construction of the earlier, externally-ballasted boats (up to hull #381) precluded this, as the aft part of the keel (the deadwood) is a separately-molded piece that was tacked on after the main hull was constructed.

[TritonSailor]

Thanks Tim.

[jollyboat]

Britton I think this would be a good thread to keep going as additional information could be included or corrected over time. I noticed that with a little more effort on my part that I could add some information to my posting but noticed that the "edit post" option is not available.

[TritonSailor]

I thought I would add some visual aids in accordance with deck type III:

Round raised section for the aft nav light from above:



Aft nav light from astern:



I think this is what is meant by taffrail cutouts. These are in the stern:




Top loading cockpit lockers:



Sorry if I went overboard everyone :) No pun intended... and sorry for the dirt, haven't given her any love yet.

Thanks

Jeff

[ErikL]

Pearson Triton #73 "Petrel" here. Based in Haddam, Ct- boat is undergoing multi-year restoration. All original with external ballast, no headliner, balsa cored fore and side decks, shallow bilge, false keel, 7/8th rig with jumper struts, bronze deadlights, aluminum mast step. Definitely a type 1 boat pretty much as she was built in Bristol. I believe she was one of the orders the Pearson's got from the 1959 boat show debut. Her former names are "Taroa" and "Souhegan". "Petrel" is a USCG documented vessel.

[atomvoyager]

Thanks for checking in with your Triton project. Along the way, let us know if you have questions or just to share your progress.
James