Surveying a Diesel Engine

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:33 pm

Prior to having a mechanic survey a diesel engine, what steps can I take to determine if a diesel engine (in this case a Universal M25) is sound?

I don't know much about diesel engines. Beyond checking that the filters look fairly new, the cables, hoses and clamps are in good shape and looking for fluid leaks, I'm pretty much lost.

Any tips?

Post by **Tim** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:42 am

You can only tell so much from a purely visual standpoint, but nonetheless the overall appearance of the engine goes a long way towards helping you determine how well it was cared for.

Clean and rust-free engines almost always signify that proper maintenance has been done over the years. While rusty, oily beasts aren't mututally exclusive with engines that run well, signs of this sort of obvious neglect and lack of care should always be observed as a warning sign, at least.

Look for evidence of water leaks around the raw water pump and heat exchanger. Look for evidence of seepage or water leaks (or vapor leaks) around the exhaust outlet as well. Sound hoses and belts are obvious checks, as you already mentioned. Check the air filter. Diesel oil turns deep black as soon as the engine is run after changing it, so don't be surprised not to see clear amber oil. Obviously any milkiness is a bad sign, always. Check the transmission fluid for a burned odor; it shouldn't smell burned.

Check out the engine mounts and any flexible mounts. Flex mounts can be replaced if they're bad, but you still want to know what you're getting into. Heavy rust means that salt water has probably been leaking onto the mounts, so see if you can find the source.

The real test for any diesel is to run it. Observe a cold start, and operate the engine under load. Hard starting is never a good sign; various exhaust smoke colors can also point you towards distressing diagnoses. A sound diesel in good shape should not emit a lot of smoke no matter what, though some whitish smoke shortly after startup is normal; this should clear up quickly, though, and shouldn't exist when the engine has reached operating temperature.

Most diesels of any age will belch a small amount of black smoke right at startup, but only a single burst; this comes from deposits in the exhaust hose. Black smoke under load is a bad sign. Blue smoke is a bad sign. Excessive white smoke is a bad sign.

Diesels are pretty forgiving, and will run for a long time even if not meticulously maintained. But the better the overall maintenance appears, the better your chances that the engine is truly running well.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:42 pm

Tim wrote:Diesel oil turns deep black as soon as the engine is run after changing it, so don't be surprised not to see clear amber oil.

Thanks for that one, Tim!
I've been changing my oil and filter twice as often to try to get the sump 'clean'. When I had the engine out and removed the oil pan I discovered it was already clean.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:05 pm

Thanks for the detailed answer, Tim.

I've been trying to find a mechanic that can give a Universal M25 a thorough looking over. I am a bit suspect of the motor and having a motor that runs well is important to me. Most of the mechanics I've talked to have been pretty uninterested in thoroughly checking the engine out.

I've considered having the oil tested at a lab, but I was under the impression that a static test is very limited in what it can tell you about a motor; it's test run on a series of samples that have value. Is that the case?

I've also heard compression checking a small diesel is not worth the effort - if it runs well, it won't have compression issues. That strikes me a counter-intuitive. Is that right or wrong?

If you were going to have a mechanic look an engine over, what would ask the mechanic to do specifically? I'm capable of looking for fluid leaks and checking belt tension, etc. What I'm really looking for is someone that can take a deeper look.

One mechanic said that if a small diesel starts up and runs well, then it is almost certainly in reasonable mechanical shape. If there is a significant problem, then it will be very apparent while running (i.e. overheating) or, more likely, the motor won't run at all. I would hope that there something I can do to get a feel for whether or not the motor is on the verge of death.

For what it's worth, an unflattering photo of the motor in question is below.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 pm

Hmm...Catalina 30?

#218 wrote:One mechanic said that if a small diesel starts up and runs well, then it is almost certainly in reasonable mechanical shape. If there is a significant problem, then it will be very apparent while running (i.e. overheating) or, more likely, the motor won't run at all.

As simplistic as that sounds, it's quite true. One good thing about diesels is their ability to run for thousands of hours with virtually no maintenance, other than fluid and filter changes. Diesels in sailboats suffer far more from lack of use than from use. When they run, they run. But they might display some symptomatic evidence of their internal condition when they are run.

#218 wrote:I would hope that there something I can do to get a feel for whether or not the motor is on the verge of death.

Check the exhaust smoke, both at cold start, after some idling, and during normal operation. Also check under heavy load, such as getting the boat up to speed and then applying reverse gear and throttle to stop the boat rapidly. This will "strain" the engine as much as any maneuver you can do, and observing the exhaust smoke can tell you a lot.

A bit of grayish-white smoke at cold startup is normal; so is a belch of black, which is only carbon residue from the exhaust. An engine in top condition will not produce any visible exhaust smoke when the engine's at operating temperature, but some light white smoke isn't beyond the realm either.

Lots of black smoke, ever, is a bad sign. Constant blue smoke or darker grays during normal operation are signs of a variety of problems, some simply from deferred maintenance, and some that are more major.

Particularly if you have cause to think the engine may not be all it can be, then a thorough sea trial will tell you about as much as possible. Universal diesels aren't necessarily the heaviest-duty, but they seem to soldier on for decades nonetheless.

#218 wrote:Most of the mechanics I've talked to have been pretty uninterested in thoroughly checking the engine out.

There's really only so much one can do. So much of a diesel inspection is visual (or audible) in nature; without truly tearing down the engine, one can only tell so much. The nature of the engine's operation is generally the most telling aspect of its condition.

Some things that go wrong in small diesels are fuel injectors (you can remove these and take them to a diesel shop for a cheap, quick test if you want), head gaskets (in some models more than others), rings, and cooling issues. Many or most of these issues can be shadetree diagnosed by observation of the exhaust smoke.

An oil test can't hurt, and might point to a serious problem, but it won't tell you that much otherwise.

Because of the high compression under which diesels operate, as well as the basic concept behind how a diesel engine works, lack of compression will generally mean the engine won't run at all; without compression, the fuel cannot ignite, unlike a gasoline engine where engines with poor compression can continue running, at least in part.

I've probably repeated some of what I wrote earlier, but with diesels being simple machines, really, I'm afraid they do sort fall into the "if it runs, it runs" category. Until one day something goes wrong and it doesn't run...but there aren't always advance signs of such failures, until close before.

Good luck.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:38 pm

Thanks Tim.

You guessed it. In this case it is a 1986 Catalina 30 Tall Rig/Bow Sprit that looks to be in great shape. I took a look at it a few weeks ago when my wife and I went on a boat shopping trip to look at a number of boats between here and the Florida Gulf Coast (a great trip).

The best we found was this Catalina 30. I have an accepted offer and the survey/haulout is scheduled for the 20th. If the boat passes the survey, I'll fill you all in on the details.

In the meantime, this is the Yachtworld link:
Catalina 30 on Yachtworld

All comments, for and against, are welcome.

bhartley · Post by **bhartley** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:13 pm

Jason,

Nice looking boat! Hope it all works out. Keeping the name????

Bly

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:23 pm

Thanks Bly. No, I won't be keeping the name. I don't like it for a few reasons. The new name will probably be Zydeco, but we haven't made that decision yet. I don't think I can maintain a cool detachment during the survey process if I name it first!

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:58 pm

Tim wrote:The real test for any diesel is to run it.

I have minimal experience but I can agree with that.

We just bought a boat that had been on the hard for 12 months. 4 months earlier I had repowered my previous boat (yea, I put all of 50 hours on that before we sold it), so suffice to say I was anxious that the engine was OK.

I was there the full day for the survey and sea trials. I was very focussed on the engine part. First I made sure that the engine had not been pre-started -it was stone cold, not started etc for a full 12 months. the batteries were previously dead but had been charged for 48 hours and that was enough. 15 seconds of glow plugs at ambient temperature of 50 degrees and she sprang to life after less than 2 seconds. to me that was a good sign.

Within seconds of the engine starting I was looking at the exhaust and also looking closely at the running engine for leaks, rattles etc etc etc. Suffice to say I had checked oil, belts, coolant etc before starting.

My surveyor tells me that taking the boat out into open water and running it at various throttle setting is one way of testing but it doesn't really stress the engine. you can't test running the engine against a strong current or wind very well. Rather what we did was double up the lines and run the engine for 25 minutes at 2200rpm at the dock. Even a 44hp Westerbeke can't hope to move the dock. We continuously checked the engine for leaks, smells, smoke, temperature, noise, rattles etc during this time.

That's about all I can add, hope it's helful.

short version - run the engine.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:45 pm

short version - run the engine.

I will. The haul out facility is 2.5 hours away. I figured we could motor most, if not all, of the way there. If there is an issue, it should manifest itself with a couple hours of use.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:09 am

I swear you could fit two Tritons inside a Catalina 30. Those boats are positively immense inside.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:45 am

Since rust never sleeps, and heat and salt water are a good recipe for corrosion, I'm going to guess that you might want to take a squint at the heat exchanger.
I'm not sure what the best way to check it might be, but an experienced mechanic could probably tell you how long they usually last and whether it's likely to be an issue?

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:57 am

I swear you could fit two Tritons inside a Catalina 30. Those boats are positively immense inside.

I got lost for three days the first time I went below in a Catalina 30.

Since rust never sleeps, and heat and salt water are a good recipe for corrosion, I'm going to guess that you might want to take a squint at the heat exchanger.
I'm not sure what the best way to check it might be, but an experienced mechanic could probably tell you how long they usually last and whether it's likely to be an issue?

The heat exchanger is an issue for these boats. Universal originally installed a 2.5" exchanger which caused overheating problems. The owner of this boat upgraded to a 3" exchanger in late 2001. I would hope that it would last at least this long, but I'll be sure to take a very close look.

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:54 pm

Jason

There are some very active Catalina forums on both Yahoo groups and Google Groups.

M

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:07 pm

#218 wrote:
I swear you could fit two Tritons inside a Catalina 30. Those boats are positively immense inside.
I got lost for three days the first time I went below in a Catalina 30.

Big whoop. I got into a Triton four years ago and I still haven't found my way out.

Wow, a 2.5hr sea trial before the haul and survey! That sounds like a great opportunity to see the true colors.

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:49 pm

Oh c'mon !!! way back on the NETA thread it was said :

s/v Groovy wrote:
sailbloats
Ok, that IS a great typo... really describes most of the 'Benehuntalinas' out there these days....

Now we are complimenting Jason on his purchase ? what's the plan - lull him into a false sense of security and then WHAM !, once he has bought the boat ?

I'm with you Jason, any boat is better than no boat, any sail boat is better than any non sail boat and the Benehuntalinas are just the plastic classics of tomorrow - they share all the same attributes as the Pearsons did in their day.

Now what about those Mac 26's huh ? huh ? ? ?

FloatingMoneyPit · Post by **FloatingMoneyPit** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:45 pm

Mark.Wilme wrote:Now what about those Mac 26's huh ? huh ? ? ?

Nah, I believe this is primarily a sailboat forum. Those are just cross-dressing powerboats.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:25 pm

Benehuntalinas are just the plastic classics of tomorrow - they share all the same attributes as the Pearsons did in their day.

Okay, so name one :-)

I would suggest the old Pearsons were designed to a fill a very different market and purpose. I am not saying they are better or worse but they clearly, to my mind, were designed and built to fulfill a very different purpose. I can't see the old 'classic' designs being slowly improved upon until they become the (so-called) benehuntalinas of today. I think there was a break with the ideals of the 40's to 60's and the 'new' boats were built to fill that new ideal.

Just my late night, ill conceived, poorly executed thoughts.

-Britton

Oh, and I wish there were more powerboat pwners represented here on the forum. I have a real soft spot for lobster boats and cruising trawlers. (both 'classic' designs to my mind ...hehe)

Post by **Tim** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:22 am

Easy, people...

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Indisputably, the Triton and Catalina-type boats are immensely different. The Triton was designed the late 1950's and more closely resembles the wooden boats of that era than the fiberglass boats that would follow closely in its wake.

However, while the differences in design and aesthetic are vast, the boats share the same (successful) design philosophy: coastal cruisers designed to be sold relatively cheaply and in high volumes.

Other similarities exist as well. The pronounced cabin on the Triton was designed to maximize the interior volume. It's a long way from the marina queen qualities of the Benehuntalinas, but it was a step in that direction.

I think that the Triton was the Catalina 30 of its day. Plastic boats in the late 50's faced similar derision: L. Francis Herreshoff famously referred to one of his designs that was produced in fiberglass as "frozen snot." Yet both boats have been wildly successful and for the same reasons. I do not think that the differences were the product of different ideals - merely different styles.

Of course, the differences between the two types means that each will collect their own following and I know that there might not be much overlap. I can certainly understand why some will prefer the world of plastic classics.

You'll find me unapologetic for choosing a boat like the Catalina 30. It is (of course) not my ultimate boat. However, it meets my goals and my budget and I'm looking forward to a Catalina 30 for a few years.

You have to get the boat that fits. I don't consider the Catalina an upgrade over the Triton. It's just that my needs and what the Triton offers (and, perhaps more accurately, demands) have diverged.

Not a big deal.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:33 pm

A little ragging's just the thing. I know a guy with a Gozzard, which I think is a wonderful boat, but I always tell him I can't remember whether it's a Buzzard or a Gizzard.

Also remember picking my boss up at the airport in my new (to-me) Mercedes. He didn't say anything, so finally I HAD to ask "So what do you think of the car?". Mine was a diesel and his was gas, so he said "Sounds like a tractor to me". He got such a laugh out of my expression, I had to plot zingers for him for days afterwards.

Anyway, I imagine you will luxuriate in all the space, and enjoy the fact that all those owners of "solidly built" Tritons seem to spend years fixing them. ;)

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:38 pm

Sail what ye love, love what ye sail.
The best boat is the boat that spends the least time at the dock.

(yes, this is the lulling into false sense of security phase of The Plan. Ominous Vincent Price laugh.)

Summersdawn · Post by **Summersdawn** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:32 pm

bcooke wrote: Oh, and I wish there were more powerboat pwners represented here on the forum. I have a real soft spot for lobster boats and cruising trawlers. (both 'classic' designs to my mind ...hehe)

I always had a soft spot for these. Small, trailerable and seaworthy, with classic West Coast troller style...

A few years ago, I meant a group of 3 guys. Each had one. They had launched in Puget Sound, and were heading to Alaska, up the Inside Passage. The summer before, one of the guys had trailered his boat to Florida, and cruised the Bahamas...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:53 pm

In retrospect, I think my late night comments had a sharpness that I did not intend. Apologies if I stepped on anyone's sensibilities.

Jason, you bring up some good points. I am thinking though that even a friendly discussion could wind up irritating some people and that wouldn't be good for the forum.

Like Mikes says,

Sail what ye love, love what ye sail.

As long as we are having fun then nothing else is really that important.

-Britton

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:15 pm

bcooke wrote:Okay, so name one :-)

Wow am I glad I can't access the forum form work !

To be fair anything I add would only be building on what Jason said and then after I re-read the comment I did note the :-) smiley face.

I do still think that once the Benehuntalinas age some more that they will be the 'affordable' (the definition of that has probably changed) classics of tomorrow.

Mark

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:20 pm

Yeah, forums lack the subtle emotional cues that mean the difference between a friend giving you a rough time and the town bully calling you out to duel. I was thinking the former as a way of fleshing out your argument but after some sleep I see it definitely came across as the latter. I am glad no harm was done.

When the forum gets around to its own rendezvous, the party is definitely going to be on one of those Benehuntalinas with their acres of accomodation. There is just something disconcerting about putting four people in the cockpit of a Triton and then watching the ocean start coming up the drains.

Peace.

-Britton

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:17 pm

Join me on mine anytime you are in the area.

( This is the best photo I have, unfortunately )

A30_John · Post by **A30_John** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:58 pm

Jason,

The Universal diesel is built on the Kubota block, which has a very good reputation. I have a Universal M4 30 in my boat, and after two years, I can say I'm happy with it. As everyone says, maintenance is the key.

The one thing that I think is unforgivable about my Universal engine is the inaccessible dip stick. If I ever needed to buy a new diesel, I would probably go fo another Kubota-based engine, but I'd buy a Beta because they are much better designed for a sailboat.

Post by **dasein668** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:41 pm

bcooke wrote: There is just something disconcerting about putting four people in the cockpit of a Triton and then watching the ocean start coming up the drains.

Umm, Britton... That's what the seacocks are for...

Post by **Tim** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:15 am

dasein668 wrote:
bcooke wrote: There is just something disconcerting about putting four people in the cockpit of a Triton and then watching the ocean start coming up the drains.
Umm, Britton... That's what the seacocks are for...

He's just laying the groundwork now so that he'll never have to invite his cruising friends over to his boat. ;<)

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:13 am

Tim wrote:
dasein668 wrote:
bcooke wrote: There is just something disconcerting about putting four people in the cockpit of a Triton and then watching the ocean start coming up the drains.
Umm, Britton... That's what the seacocks are for...
He's just laying the groundwork now so that he'll never have to invite his cruising friends over to his boat. ;<)

Oh, right! I should have seen through that... As long as he brings goodies, I suppose...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:29 pm

At the risk of keeping this tangent alive on an otherwise useful thread ...

Tim wrote:
dasein668 wrote:
bcooke wrote:
There is just something disconcerting about putting four people in the cockpit of a Triton and then watching the ocean start coming up the drains.

Umm, Britton... That's what the seacocks are for...

He's just laying the groundwork now so that he'll never have to invite his cruising friends over to his boat. ;<)

I was speaking in a partially hypothetical term. I too have seacocks in my cockpit drains but I am the only one in my last boatyard that had them and I was roundly laughed at for making the upgrade.

I was trying to point out (in my humility) one of the disadvantages to my boat's design and the superiority of some of the newer boat designs that have removed that idiosynchratic fault. Needing seacocks to seat four people in the cockpit is a rather silly thing after all. Needing seacocks in the cockpit drains at all is a bit silly and a bit of a weakness in the design.

I DID throw out a few offers for beans and rice and whiskey on my boat but there weren't any takers. You all ran away as though my plain plastic bucket head and AC plywood interior was somehow disagreeable.

Back on the real subject. Probably the only way to REALLY know the engine's condition is to tear it down. Otherwise I would just look for visual indicators of general care like no leaks, cleanliness, proper temps and readings on the guages, maintenance records and such. A diesel is far less finicky and overall simpler than a gas engine plus a marine engine really does not get used that much so if it runs well then it is probably going to continue for a long time. I would think a well cared for diesel will easily outlast the boat unless you are a commercial fisherman or something.

And no matter what you do something could/will break so there is never a guarantee no matter how hard you try to inspect the engine beforehand. If it looks good and runs good then I would call it good enough. Besides, overhauling an engine in the basement some winter could be a fun project :-)

Just my 2 cents.

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:10 pm

#218 wrote:the survey/haulout is scheduled for the 20th. If the boat passes the survey, I'll fill you all in on the details.

Shall we assume that the survey was unflattering?

NUDGE NUDGE NUDGE

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:18 pm

Despite Britton's noble effort to bring this thread back on track, I'm going to derail it again. I wanted to give you an update on the sea trial and inspection we completed yesterday. I didn't think it deserved its own thread.

I've tried thinking of a good word to describe the boat. I think disaster is most appropriate. I don't mean disaster like, "Oh, my hair was a disaster this morning." I'm referring to the plague or hurricane variety of disaster.

Above the waterline, there were some issues, but none that were necessarily deal killers. Some of the instruments did not work and the head filled, to the point of overflow, as soon as the seacock was opened.

The engine was heavily corroded, particularly at the oil pan and water pump. The max RPM was only 2200; It should be 3200.

Also, the boat had an issue with the steering. It wanted to bear aggressively to port at cruising speed. If I let the wheel go for a second, the boat would instantly respond as though someone were holding a tiller 45 degrees from center. It would turn the boat in a full circle in no time.

As soon as the boat was out of the water, I knew we were in real trouble. There were approximately 500 blisters over the entire bottom. They ranged in size from about .25" to 1.5".

Also, there was an awful repair that had been attempted at the keel/hull joint at the leading edge of the keel. The repair was a great glob of some kind of filler wrapped around the damaged area. It was failing badly. I could have removed a good bit of it with my bare hands.

There was a similarly awful repair job at the strut which was corroded where it meets the hull.

The rudder was the worst. It had split at the bottom 16" of the trailing edge where there was obvious signs of damage. The halves were separated about .25" and there were small oysters inside the rudder.

I was told that the bottom was painted in late 2005 at which time they repaired a half dozen blisters. I guess they decided to leave off the part where they gave up after taking care of the first six.

The quality of the boat was deliberately misrepresented. There is no way the owner was unaware of the state of the bottom.

Needless to say, I've rejected the boat.

On to the next one.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 pm

Mike, it looks like you posted while I was typing the above response. Unflattering would, obviously, be a charitable description.

Britton, I am well aware that you are trying very, very hard not to tell me you told me so. Just so you know, I don't think all Catalina 30's are like this. :) I will be focusing on other boats, though.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:29 pm

ah, jeez I was nudging for a far happier outcome than that!

c'est la vie.

Oysters aren't fast?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:42 pm

I challenge you to find anywhere a statement from me saying Catalinas are bad.

I am all for going after what makes you happy.

The fact that no one has built a better boat since the Pearson cousins were turning out Tritons does not imply that I consider other boats as inferior.

-Britton

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:30 pm

Jason
I am glad you avoided making a mistake with this particular boat - that's what the thorough inspection, survey and sea trials are for - to guarantee your assurance (or not) that you are making a sound buying decision.

Now I am sure this group will help you find your next boat if you'd like them to

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:20 am

Hey Britton. I know - I didn't mean to imply that you implied...

Actually, I think we're all on the same page here. We all know no one was trying to be offensive. I wish we were all closer - this would be a much easier conversation over a few drinks.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:41 am

Oysters aren't fast?

Not unless you can train them to open and close at the same time. I tried that once, but I ate all the big ones and the remainder couldn't generate sufficient propulsion.

I am glad you avoided making a mistake with this particular boat - that's what the thorough inspection, survey and sea trials are for - to guarantee your assurance (or not) that you are making a sound buying decision.

My wife said it best: "It could have been worse. You could have bought the boat."

Now I am sure this group will help you find your next boat if you'd like them to

Please! Between selling the Triton and the loss of my usual ride for races, I need to get back in action. I did find a Sabre 30 in the area, but I should probably start another thread for that.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:58 am

Too bad on the Catalina, Jason. Onwards and upwards.

It's amazing, isn't it, how a brief look at a boat, at which time things seem OK enough to maye you want to proceed with the next steps torwards purchase, can be so deceiving, and how many issues can come to light during a survey or sea trial.

Better luck next time.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:59 am

bcooke wrote:The fact that no one has built a better boat since the Pearson cousins were turning out Tritons does not imply that I consider other boats as inferior.

Actually, that statement is sort of the poster child for implication! ;<)

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:46 pm

Upon deeper consideration, I think you may have passed up a golden opportunity, Jason.

Who among us would not LOVE for his/her boat to be equipped with its own self-replenishing raw bar?

Bottom paint manufacturers take note: ye who develop a paint that will discourage slime and barnacles yet promote cherrystone and oyster growth will make a fortune!

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:24 pm

Jason wrote:Hey Britton. I know - I didn't mean to imply that you implied..

Tim wrote: Actually, that statement is sort of the poster child for implication! ;<)

At this point in the conversation I am simply doing what Britton does best. No need to read very deep into my comments :-)

-Britton

Plastic Classic Forum

Surveying a Diesel Engine

Surveying a Diesel Engine

Pretty boat