hey.
So, I'm 24, with the budget to match, and am looking at a durable, seaworthy world cruiser. The long list I've compiled so far reads as follows:
Pearson Triton.
Now, I love Albergs designs, and I think the triton is awsome. I also am a big fan of cult vehicles (having reciently owned an SV650 for anyone who's into bikes, and growing up with mustangs) as there are generaly a few very knowledgeable people (tip of the hat specificly to the crew of Gilisandro and Atom here) and a generaly inviting atmosphere.
Now, I'm willing to work hard at a restoration, and while I dont know much about boats, I'm learning quickly as I put my current lover (a signet 20') back into shape, so I should be better equiped when I can afford the triton I'm hoping to find.
Here were the thoughts I had, and I was wondering if I could get feedback from you guys on them.
1.) While I adore the overhung stern of the Triton, and would hate to do anything to mar it, I'm also almost completley mechanicly incompetent, and a decent and dedicated sailor, so I was thinking about ditching the balast stuck in the middle of the boat (er, I mean the atomic 4 engine) and going with a little outboard on a pivoting motor mount for manovering in harbors. Out on the water, I prefer to run under the wind alone.
2.) I can take as much pain as you can dish out. I can walk 20 miles a day with a 60 lb pack, and not complain. I can breath pure sanded fiberglass and still sing on key. What is my sole weakness? What is the kryptonite to my incredible superman act? I REALY want a hot shower, below decks. I spent some time thinking about this, and have realy reached no satisfactory way to do this. here's the potential solution I've come up with:
first, convert the V birth to a pullman, thus allowing me to move the entry off to the side, and eliminate the hanging locker. Then build a catch and expand the head out into the center, and in all directions, thus giving me JUST enough room to mount a small heater and showerhead.
obviously this is an absolutley ghastly solution, but I dont know of an other. Suggestions? Thanks.
PS, when I get the boat, it will be used (or so I hope) for extended cruising with myself and a friend in the waters of California, Mexico, and possibly points south.
Thanks so very much for your help, and my props to you for creating Gilisandro, not only a beutifull boat, but a means of inspiration for people like me who hope to soon acomplish something similar.
-- James
Showers, and pullmans, and outboards, oh my
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dasein668
- Boateg
- Posts: 1637
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:09 am
- Boat Name: Dasein
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton 668
- Location: Portland, Maine
- Contact:
Pullman.... Actually, I've considered the idea of converting to a Pullman berth as well--the hanging locker is well near useless, in my opinion. But a larger storage space in that location would be pretty nice. So I don't really think its a ghastly idea... at least in concept.
But I think you would want to be pretty careful with your engineering, in the sense that you would be removing half of a bulkhead from the area near the mast step. I don't really know how critical that bulkhead is to the integrity of the hull... probably not very, really, but I would still be a bit wary of pulling that bulkhead out. Perhaps a strong, laminated rib in that area would be useful....
The other thing to consider, though, is water. First of all, the integral Triton water tank is in the way up there, so would probably have to be removed, or built over/around. Secondly, 22 gallons just isn't that much water. I think without adding quite a bit of extra water tankage, you will find that you are spending most of your life refilling your tank. Even with a manual pump, and using the water for ONLY washing dishes and hands, we find the 22 gallon tank to be pretty pitiful...
Some things to consider...
But I think you would want to be pretty careful with your engineering, in the sense that you would be removing half of a bulkhead from the area near the mast step. I don't really know how critical that bulkhead is to the integrity of the hull... probably not very, really, but I would still be a bit wary of pulling that bulkhead out. Perhaps a strong, laminated rib in that area would be useful....
The other thing to consider, though, is water. First of all, the integral Triton water tank is in the way up there, so would probably have to be removed, or built over/around. Secondly, 22 gallons just isn't that much water. I think without adding quite a bit of extra water tankage, you will find that you are spending most of your life refilling your tank. Even with a manual pump, and using the water for ONLY washing dishes and hands, we find the 22 gallon tank to be pretty pitiful...
Some things to consider...
Nathan
dasein668.com
dasein668.com
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Hi James,
We all have our own personal priorities for modifications that we want, or need, for our own boats. I certainly understand your desire for hot showers, even if I don't feel the need myself to go to the trouble of installing a workable solution on my own boat. In an ideal world, sure--I'd have a hot shower with unlimited tankage with which to enjoy it.
Before we proceed, I'd like to first lay out several issues that immediately come to mind:
1. The forward bulkhead helps support the deck and mast beam in that area. If you removed part of the bulkhead, this structure would need to be replaced somehow. A laminated web frame on the hull, connecting with and maintaining the integrity of the remaining portion of the bulkhead, if properly engineered, would do the job just fine. The mast beam could be easily beefed up so that it could perform its job without the benefit of that bulkhead at all--but it couldn't stand alone as is. But in the broadest terms, you would have to address the removal of any critical structure with some form of reengineered replacement.
2. What will you do about water supply? The original tank is insufficient to supply a shower on any sort of regular basis. With conservation, the 22 or whatever gallons can last a long time---but showers use a lot of water and are wasteful, and you'll need a plan in place to supply yourself. Additional tankage seems like a must, at the minimum--and installing new tankage involves some significant surgery to the boat in order to remove the old and install the new. Forget about watermakers--they are power hungry, labor-intensive to maintain, fussy, prone to breakdown, and expensive to purchase and install. They just don't fit in with the generally minimalist philosophy of cruising in a 28' sailboat, and the logistics involved get overcomplicated.
3. Needs, desires, and what's important tend to get refocused when you're out cruising. Before committing structural Hari-Kari to any boat, I feel it's worthwhile to first understand if the changes you propose are really as important as you think. For me, giving up regular hot showers (which I very much enjoy on land, thank you...) while cruising is a very small sacrifice given the overall pleasure and relaxation involved in the cruise. If you haven't yet had a lot of cruising experience (in any boat), I recommend you first see what it's all about before deciding that the shower is the most important thing to you. If, after some experience, you still feel that way, then by all means--do whatever it takes to make the hot shower happen on your particular boat. That's fine, and no one will fault you. But given the inherent difficulties in installing one in such a small, simple boat, I think it would be worthwhile to be sure before committing to the challenges, compromises, and frustrations thereunto.
4. Cruising in SoCal, Mexico, and points south means warm water! Don't underestimate the refreshing qualities of diving over the side after a hard day's hike on land, or whatever. 80-degree water makes swimming a daily, and more frequent, event. Even here in the icy waters of Maine, we often hop over the side on a hot day (well, maybe not often--but frequently enough!). Even 65 degree water makes swimming a viable practice, and great way to refresh and get clean.
After swimming and/or bathing in salt water, it is important to have a quick fresh water rinse to get the salt off, if possible--this leaves you feeling much more refreshed. We use a portable garden sprayer, which makes 2.5 gallons of water last for weeks of this limited use. A light rinse, and toweling off, will leave you feeling at least as good as a shoreside hot shower--maybe better. Note also that sponge baths, Sunshowers, and the aforementioned garden sprayer all work cleanliness and refreshment wonders that have to be experienced to be understood. As unrealistic as that may seem to someone used to long, hot showers--you'd be surprised. Try it.
5. How will you heat your water, and how will you supply the power to whatever heat source you choose? There are several options, but all of them will require fueling of some sort--whether it's electricity, bottled gas, liquid fuel, or whatever. What sort of heater did you have in mind? How will you produce or store the necessary energy?
The long and the short of it (as if anything I write is ever short) is that, were I in your shoes, I would make sure that I wanted to make the major changes to the boat needed to fit a shower before jumping into the project. If, after some real cruising experience, you still feel that way--then the plan you mentioned is probably as good as any, given the confines of the Triton interior.
Me--if it came to a choice of never having a real shower again, or heading off on a life of relaxing cruising, I'd choose the cruise anyday! The shower is most likely less important than you think--unless real world experience has proved otherwise to you.
Regarding your other query: the outboard. By all means, if this is what you can do, and want to do, and if it gets you out cruising, then put on an outboard. It is frequently a tempting option, in one form or another, for most of us. I would hardly advocate spending money you don't have, or that would be better spent elsewhere (like a cruising kitty) on rebuilding and maintaining, or replacing, some old hunk of iron. If an outboard is something that works for you, then absolutely go that route.
Hope you find a boat and go cruising! The Triton is a great boat--not without its faults and issues, but overall a very sweet ride. I hope you'll continue to find this forum useful and interesting. We have a good bunch here.
Go small...go simple...go now.
Tim
We all have our own personal priorities for modifications that we want, or need, for our own boats. I certainly understand your desire for hot showers, even if I don't feel the need myself to go to the trouble of installing a workable solution on my own boat. In an ideal world, sure--I'd have a hot shower with unlimited tankage with which to enjoy it.
Before we proceed, I'd like to first lay out several issues that immediately come to mind:
1. The forward bulkhead helps support the deck and mast beam in that area. If you removed part of the bulkhead, this structure would need to be replaced somehow. A laminated web frame on the hull, connecting with and maintaining the integrity of the remaining portion of the bulkhead, if properly engineered, would do the job just fine. The mast beam could be easily beefed up so that it could perform its job without the benefit of that bulkhead at all--but it couldn't stand alone as is. But in the broadest terms, you would have to address the removal of any critical structure with some form of reengineered replacement.
2. What will you do about water supply? The original tank is insufficient to supply a shower on any sort of regular basis. With conservation, the 22 or whatever gallons can last a long time---but showers use a lot of water and are wasteful, and you'll need a plan in place to supply yourself. Additional tankage seems like a must, at the minimum--and installing new tankage involves some significant surgery to the boat in order to remove the old and install the new. Forget about watermakers--they are power hungry, labor-intensive to maintain, fussy, prone to breakdown, and expensive to purchase and install. They just don't fit in with the generally minimalist philosophy of cruising in a 28' sailboat, and the logistics involved get overcomplicated.
3. Needs, desires, and what's important tend to get refocused when you're out cruising. Before committing structural Hari-Kari to any boat, I feel it's worthwhile to first understand if the changes you propose are really as important as you think. For me, giving up regular hot showers (which I very much enjoy on land, thank you...) while cruising is a very small sacrifice given the overall pleasure and relaxation involved in the cruise. If you haven't yet had a lot of cruising experience (in any boat), I recommend you first see what it's all about before deciding that the shower is the most important thing to you. If, after some experience, you still feel that way, then by all means--do whatever it takes to make the hot shower happen on your particular boat. That's fine, and no one will fault you. But given the inherent difficulties in installing one in such a small, simple boat, I think it would be worthwhile to be sure before committing to the challenges, compromises, and frustrations thereunto.
4. Cruising in SoCal, Mexico, and points south means warm water! Don't underestimate the refreshing qualities of diving over the side after a hard day's hike on land, or whatever. 80-degree water makes swimming a daily, and more frequent, event. Even here in the icy waters of Maine, we often hop over the side on a hot day (well, maybe not often--but frequently enough!). Even 65 degree water makes swimming a viable practice, and great way to refresh and get clean.
After swimming and/or bathing in salt water, it is important to have a quick fresh water rinse to get the salt off, if possible--this leaves you feeling much more refreshed. We use a portable garden sprayer, which makes 2.5 gallons of water last for weeks of this limited use. A light rinse, and toweling off, will leave you feeling at least as good as a shoreside hot shower--maybe better. Note also that sponge baths, Sunshowers, and the aforementioned garden sprayer all work cleanliness and refreshment wonders that have to be experienced to be understood. As unrealistic as that may seem to someone used to long, hot showers--you'd be surprised. Try it.
5. How will you heat your water, and how will you supply the power to whatever heat source you choose? There are several options, but all of them will require fueling of some sort--whether it's electricity, bottled gas, liquid fuel, or whatever. What sort of heater did you have in mind? How will you produce or store the necessary energy?
The long and the short of it (as if anything I write is ever short) is that, were I in your shoes, I would make sure that I wanted to make the major changes to the boat needed to fit a shower before jumping into the project. If, after some real cruising experience, you still feel that way--then the plan you mentioned is probably as good as any, given the confines of the Triton interior.
Me--if it came to a choice of never having a real shower again, or heading off on a life of relaxing cruising, I'd choose the cruise anyday! The shower is most likely less important than you think--unless real world experience has proved otherwise to you.
Regarding your other query: the outboard. By all means, if this is what you can do, and want to do, and if it gets you out cruising, then put on an outboard. It is frequently a tempting option, in one form or another, for most of us. I would hardly advocate spending money you don't have, or that would be better spent elsewhere (like a cruising kitty) on rebuilding and maintaining, or replacing, some old hunk of iron. If an outboard is something that works for you, then absolutely go that route.
Hope you find a boat and go cruising! The Triton is a great boat--not without its faults and issues, but overall a very sweet ride. I hope you'll continue to find this forum useful and interesting. We have a good bunch here.
Go small...go simple...go now.
Tim