Teak treatment-possible pollutant

[JoeC]

I have been using ordinary deck sealant/stain(BEHR's) on the teak for the last 10yrs and it has worked quite well.
I was cleaning the teak with Tide w/bleach powder and scrub brush with boat in water about aweek ago and someone at the marina complained that it was leaving a sheen on the water.
My question is ...would one consider this pollution?...these deck sealant/stains are used all the time on houshold decks, shingles, etc.
I only use non-toxic cleaners on the boat .
Your comments would be appreciated ....thanks

[galleywench]

My question is ...would one consider this pollution?

Yes.

What your doing is known as nonpoint source pollution and has and will continue to be scrutinized by environmental agencies (especially in marinas and mooring fields). In a nutshell, nonpoint source pollution is the introduction of natural or man made pollutants into a body of water through a diffuse source (ie - does not come from a discharge pipe). The oily sheen in the water is no doubt coming from the hydrocarbons in the stain getting washed off from the detergent, but that wouldn't be my biggest concern (Hydrocarbon Bioaccumulation is another discussion). I'd be willing to bet that half of all the outboards in your vicinity pump out more unburned oil and fuel than what you put in the water. However, the detergent you are using (Tide w/bleach) could actually do more immediate damage to the waterbody depending on the nutrient content.

Aquatic ecosystems are highly sensitive to organic and inorganic nutrients such as nitrogen and phosphorus and if enough of these nutrients gets in the water you'll start to see major effects such as algal blooms followed by rapid depletion of oxygen in the lower layers of the water column (hypoxia). This can in turn, cause fish kills and other nasty conditions. The Chesapeake Bay and much of the Gulf of Mexico is suffering as a result of this type of pollution (Most of the nutrients going in are agriculture related).

So yes you are polluting. It's not much, but it adds up when everyone is doing the same thing. Just use common sense and try to limit your impact.

[JoeC]

Galleywench.....thanks for the reply. FYI, phosphorus has been discontinued in most common household laundry detergents for many years.
I guess the concern is with the ingredients in the wood sealant/stain itself and I have not found anything in the literature indicating a problem that I can understand.
Being widely used on porches, decks, shingles, etc., would lead me to believe it is ok.
If it is not, then just about all the teak treatments on the market could pose a problem, except, maybe, varnish...and even that could be dubious, if judged by the same standards.
When compared to some of the teak traetments used for bleaching/cleaning teak, ie....acid based, caustic ingredients,etc., this method would seem very mild in comparision.
As far as common sense is concerned, even at my old age, I seem to be lacking in that department.
I guess I can let the teak go bare until I settle this issue in my own mind.

[Hirilondë]

Being widely used on porches, decks, shingles, etc., would lead me to believe it is ok.

That assumption would be a big mistake. Virtually if not all exterior preservatives are dangerous and significant pollutants when released into the environment. Unfortunately the better the preservation characteristics the more harmful a product is to people and the environment is much more often than not the situation.

[galleywench]

Galleywench.....thanks for the reply. FYI, phosphorus has been discontinued in most common household laundry detergents for many years.

Yes, phosphorus has been discontinued in most household detergents, but nitrogen is still a major concern and is often the limiting nutrient in salt water systems (phosphorus is the limiting nutrient in most freshwater systems). Surfactants (allow oil to emulsify in water) can be detrimental at the cellular membrane level in aquatic organisms.

Being widely used on porches, decks, shingles, etc., would lead me to believe it is ok.
If it is not, then just about all the teak treatments on the market could pose a problem, except, maybe, varnish...and even that could be dubious, if judged by the same standards.
When compared to some of the teak treatments used for bleaching/cleaning teak, ie....acid based, caustic ingredients,etc., this method would seem very mild in comparison.

You may be right and you may be choosing the lesser of two evils, but just be aware that because these products don't say that they cause harm outwardly on the label doesn't mean that they can't be a problem if not used properly (not intended to go into the water). You can access the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for the particular stain you are using and look in the Toxicological section and see what (if any) exposure tests have been conducted on the product. They are typically listed as LD50 and LC50 (lethal dose and lethal concentration for 50% of sample).

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound like a preacher, but I am firmly in the camp that most people want to do the right thing and just need to be pointed in the right direction. When I used to clean my boat while in the water (sadly my boat needs more than a scrub down), I would try to limit the amount of water I used (and consequently the amount discharged into the water body). Of course when your trying to remove the remnants of a seagull party on your deck this isn't always feasible.

[Skipper599]

Ok, so what should a person use to keep teak decks clean and not harm the environment? I hear tell the Pardey's use a dish soap ... possibly "Dove"??? ... would that be considered polluting too? Like you say, many of us want to do the right thing but it seems it doesn't matter what one decides to use, there will be some person waiting there to criticize. Even if one decided to use nothing but clear water (salt or fresh), and a stiff bristle scrub broom, I'm sure someone will tell me I'm polluting the environment with natural oils from the wood. It's a no win situation as I see it, and a reason why some will ignore the anti pollution rules whenever possible if they think they can get away with it.

When I think of the contaminants I witnessed as a boy during WWII around my home shores of the Isle of Wight in southern England, I'm amazed at how mother nature eventually cleaned our shores of more materials than one can imagine. Particularly thick Bunker Oil and other petroleum products. There were no clean up crews in those days. Hell, we weren't even allowed to walk on the beach due to all kinds of hazards of war.

I'm all for caring for the environment but sometimes i wonder if we don't take it a bit far???

[Rachel]

Ok, so what should a person use to keep teak decks clean and not harm the environment? ...Even if one decided to use nothing but clear water (salt or fresh), and a stiff bristle scrub broom, I'm sure someone will tell me I'm polluting the environment with natural oils from the wood.

I see where you are coming from, but if you look at it another way, then it's true. Anything we/you do is polluting the environment to some extent. It's all a matter of scale and numbers, I think. In other words, if we had 250 people on the continent, they could probably do just about whatever they pleased and have little or no practical effect on the environment. Things change with 250,000, and again with 2,500,000, and on up the line.

So, as was expressed earlier, I think it's a matter of weighing actions and consequences. Everything will have some consequence, but some things will have more/larger ones. And some activities are more necessary vs. more "luxurious." Unfortunately I don't believe there is any black-and-white, perfect answer. And I agree that it's not always clear what is good, bad, worse, or worst. Even sometimes when things are "rated," they don't really give you the whole picture, but only one slice of the effect (i.e. a car that gets amazing mpg, and is advertised as super-green, but is very resource intensive to build). Or someone might criticize your actions at the marina, meanwhile fertilizing 40 acres of grass at home (of which the runoff has much more impact than what you are doing but it is less obvious).

Also, sometimes rules and regs seem really arbitrary (such as no copper bottom paint allowed [in future], but the rule only pertaining to boats under 65').

No easy answers (darnit!).

Rachel

[Tim D.]

I agree, they key is to minimize the pollution each of us as individuals cause in order to thwart further regulation. The areas necessitating those regulations are areas of high concentration of boats (recreational and commercial). All those individuals are adding up.

[galleywench]

I'm all for caring for the environment but sometimes i wonder if we don't take it a bit far???

Your right, it probably is taken a bit too far in many instances, but if one can exercise reasonable care to reduce the amount of pollutants generated without too much extra work, then everyone wins.

I hear where your coming from, someone complained when I was washing my decks down a few years back. I was only using freshwater but the chalky residue from the fiberglass on my decks was going into the water with a visible white 'plume' around the boat. They were right, I was polluting, but I used very little water and nothing else. What else could I have done? Not washed the boat I suppose, but I'm not a big fan of seagull poop on my decks.

[Tim D.]

I hear where your coming from, someone complained when I was washing my decks down a few years back. I was only using freshwater but the chalky residue from the fiberglass on my decks was going into the water with a visible white 'plume' around the boat. They were right, I was polluting, but I used very little water and nothing else. What else could I have done? Not washed the boat I suppose, but I'm not a big fan of seagull poop on my decks

I am pretty sure we can't be held responsible for that phosphate plume. ;)