What Paint???.... Marine Ply in the cabin.

[triton274]

One of the projects on my list to get my triton ready for the season is to paint the ceiling of the v-birth area. The previous owner recored the deck from below. There is some exposed plywood (see pictures) that is glassed in on the edges that I plan to sand down smooth and paint. I am not sure what is the right paint to use for this job. The paint used in the rest of the cabin is a white gloss paint. I would like to use something that will look very close. I would also like to use this paint on some wood that I will be using to make a "fill in board" for in between the v-birth to make it one big birth. Any suggestions?

[Rachel]

Hi triton274,

First of all, just so we are all on the same nautical page :) I think you will be painting the "overhead" ("ceiling" on a boat being some type of liner on the inside of the hull sides, like that white area on the right of the photo if you put strips of wood there).

I would probably choose something like Interlux Premium Yacht Enamel, but I think others might use a single part "poly" like Interlux Brightsides or Pettit Easypoxy, or a latex acrylic enamel. There are a number of ways to go that all seem to be pretty good, so I think it comes down somewhat to personal preference. All three of those can be glossy.

One consideration might be what are the hull sides painted with that are already white? Might be nice to be able to use the same thing in future when the time (likely) comes to freshen up or paint over a ding or scrape.

I think a two-part poly might be really super, but also a lot nastier to apply (just in terms of toxicity).

By the way, everything shown "below the top" looks really fresh and tidy :)

Rachel

PS: Re-reading and looking at it again: I don't want to sound all "doubting Thomas" on you, or like everything has to be perfect; but, I might want to be sure that re-core repair was really right before painting. Was the plywood used in place of a new lower skin? It might be fine but just sounds like it could be a bit dodgy (?)

[Hirilondë]

Hi triton274,

First of all, just so we are all on the same nautical page :) I think you will be painting the "overhead" ("ceiling" on a boat being some type of liner on the inside of the hull sides, like that white area on the right of the photo if you put strips of wood there).

OK Rachel, you started it :)

In the days of sail ceiling was an interior planking. It could start in the bilge and go as far up as the 1st deck of the ship. In many cases it was actually structural. Over time it came to mean any type of interior strips. Often it was a means of adding a decorative finish to the inside of the frames that was easy to remove when needed to do work. It has evolved to include decorative strips used even on fiberglass boats as an interior finish.

But, to get on the subject, the surfaces this thread is about are properly called "overhead" as Rachel has mentioned. I don't know that it matters a lot what you use for paint. I suggest a good oil based primer to start with, then just about anything will work.

[Rachel]

Thanks for elaborating, Dave. I didn't mean to make it sound like ceiling was always only little decorative strips; but I was trying not to be *too* nerdy and detailed and get off track; and I was thinking they aren't typically structural as used in our fiberglass boats (although they can stiffen things up too of course).

Hey, now we both sound nerdy. Yeah! :D

[Paulus]

On Guillemot, the overhead surfaces - between mahogany "rafters" (go ahead and correct the term) are covered with a vinyl/rubberish, textured, wallpaper material - glued onto the surfaces.

In my opinion, the textured surface nicely hides the coarse wood grain of the plywood and overall gives it a nice touch.

[Case]

Based on the picture, it looks like the deck was recored with plywood. Then the plywood itself wasn't fully encapsulated in fiberglass.

That is a bit odd, to be honest. Normally, when you recore, you encapsulate everything in fiberglass. It might not be a bad idea to look closely on the recore job itself. Perhaps complete the fiberglassing work before painting?

Sorry about "adding" more work to your project list...

- Case

[triton274]

Based on the picture, it looks like the deck was recored with plywood. Then the plywood itself wasn't fully encapsulated in fiberglass.

That is a bit odd, to be honest. Normally, when you recore, you encapsulate everything in fiberglass. It might not be a bad idea to look closely on the recore job itself. Perhaps complete the fiberglassing work before painting?

If i were to do this would there be any reason It would have to happen before i launch the boat? or even to wait till next fall when I pull her out?

[Rachel]

On Guillemot, the overhead surfaces - between mahogany "rafters" (go ahead and correct the term)

Hi Paulus,

I can't tell if you are being a little bit snarky about Dave's and my letting Ben know about how the term "ceiling" is used in a boat, or if you really would like to know whether "rafters" is correct (?). So, I'll go with "you are really interested."

Now, I'm not positive (so maybe someone else will chime in to correct me), but I *think* those would traditionally be called "deck beams." Granted, it sounds like they may be more decorative on your boat vs. supporting the deck or deck planking (not sure without knowing more).

Ben,

It's hard to assess the structural viability of your deck from here, but it may be okay to leave for a season. After all, many people are out sailing with soft decks that need to be re-cored. A couple of questions I would be asking myself:

1) Is the attachment of the forestay at all supported by the deck, including whether it relies on the foredeck not being able to bulge up or down/topsides not able to flex in or out.

2) Is the boat tied up, anchored, or moored using a fitting that relies on the strength of the foredeck?

3) Will being out in the weather make things worse (maybe not a really big consideration since if what Case and I have an inkling might be true is true, then you have a project to do anyway, and a little bit more probably won't make that much difference).

You may already know this, but here is a bit more on how it works, so you can judge better for yourself. First of all, fiberglass alone is fairly "floppy," unless it is very thick. The way most fiberglass decks get their strength is by being part of a sandwich, that works (if I have this right) in tension, something like an I-beam. So you have two thin skins of fiberglass (upper and lower) separated-yet-attached by a core material (balsa probably originally on your boat).

As long as this sandwich stays completely bonded, and the two thin fiberglass layers stay separated-yet-attached, the deck is strong. But if they become debonded, then you just have two thin, floppy layers of fiberglass and some rotten balsa.... very little strength.

You *could* have a solid fiberglass or wood deck, but they would have to be constructed differently or thicker, or some of each/both.

So, if what Case and I are seeing is true, it looks like someone took the inner (bottom) skin off, took out the core, and then glued/attached plywood in place, but then maybe did not put the lower skin back and get everything bonded together again properly? Without the lower skin there is no sandwich. Of course a plywood deck could be sufficient, but it would probably need to be designed and implemented differently than the original deck, and I wouldn't assume the PO did that, without knowing more.

Sorry that sounds a bit vague, but it's hard to tell without being there to see it in person, plus, I'm not a structural engineer by any stretch of the imagination. Also, theoretically inadequate structures often do last longer than you'd think they would. But, people have varying tolerances for living with them (I'm on the end of the scale that can't stop thinking about it if I know it might not be right).

Rachel

[Paulus]

On Guillemot, the overhead surfaces - between mahogany "rafters" (go ahead and correct the term)

Hi Paulus,

I can't tell if you are being a little bit snarky about Dave's and my letting Ben know about how the term "ceiling" is used in a boat, or if you really would like to know whether "rafters" is correct (?). So, I'll go with "you are really interested."

Now, I'm not positive (so maybe someone else will chime in to correct me), but I *think* those would traditionally be called "deck beams." Granted, it sounds like they may be more decorative on your boat vs. supporting the deck or deck planking (not sure without knowing more).Rachel

If knowing that some people here cringe when they see a wrong term being used to decribe what they need help with is being snarky, I am fine with that. :-) I enjoy the oft 180 degree responses as they relate to the questions and I am learning a lot here...

Perhaps they are called overhead, exposed deck beams?

As regards your theory of needing a sandwich - in my humble (and somewhat snarky) opinion, plywood, by design, already accomplishes the principle you so well describe, by "encapsulating" the several layers of (often lesser quality) veneer within finish grade wood veneer, with the grain of each individual layers at perpendicular to the one it's covering. Adding your encapsulation with additional fiberglass would add protection, but little extra structural, to plywood.

Now, if we are talking about coring - microballoons or balsa - this inded provides for little resistence to lateral pressure and I would agree your sandwich principle must be applied in order to get the strenght we need.

Now, what kind of paint would you recommend?

[Rachel]

If knowing that some people here cringe when they see a wrong term being used to decribe what they need help with is being snarky, I am fine with that.

Ben, I'm really sorry if my original post to you made you cringe. I completely did not mean it that way. I only even mentioned it because it can get confusing when the "wrong" terms actually also happen to mean something else (i.e. topsides vs. deck; ceiling vs. overhead). I was just figuring you might like to know how to describe the part of the boat you were asking about (I know I do).

Nevertheless, I probably shouldn't have said anything in my first response to you; I did have second thoughts about it but then I let my love of nautical terminology and precise language usage win out :blush:

So please accept my apology if I caused you any negative feelings or cringing; That was not my intention at all, and I really want you to feel welcome here and like you are part of the forum :)

Now, what kind of paint would you recommend?

Well I did give my recommendations in my very first post in this thead, and I haven't changed my mind since then.

Rachel

[Tom Young]

One of the projects on my list to get my triton ready for the season is to paint the ceiling of the v-birth area. The previous owner recored the deck from below. There is some exposed plywood (see pictures) that is glassed in on the edges that I plan to sand down smooth and paint. I am not sure what is the right paint to use for this job. The paint used in the rest of the cabin is a white gloss paint. I would like to use something that will look very close. I would also like to use this paint on some wood that I will be using to make a "fill in board" for in between the v-birth to make it one big birth. Any suggestions?

I would use both an oil base undercoater or primer, and an oil base enamel on that overhead area. I use any good quality oil product below on my boat and rarely pay the marine premium cost.

I'm always hopeful of new waterbased enamels and use them a lot in my house work. But they never quite flow out as well as oil based. Too bad because of the fumes, especially in a boat.

One thing I might consider is going to less gloss. The surface looks a little uneven and gloss will only magnify that. If you go down a step in gloss to semi-gloss, you may like the look better. Semi gloss is still easy to clean.

[Quetzalsailor]

Doesn't look like a traditional recore. Looks like plywood affixed to the underside of the deck. Anyway, the decoration issue is the same: what's the easiest, cheapest, and most suitable to your aesthetic desire that's possible?

Painting means making the surface preparation good enough while working overhead at a crouch.
Covering with something might be a solution. Board materials that you don't mind looking at is one common idea; cut panels of your choice and affix them, then trim out the edges and joints. Cloth-covered boards is another. Lots of chi-chi modern boats have overheads covered in cloth panels that are Velcroed in place; this makes access to the under-deck easy for replacing deck fittings, etc.

[triton274]

Ben, I'm really sorry if my original post to you made you cringe. I completely did not mean it that way. I only even mentioned it because it can get confusing when the "wrong" terms actually also happen to mean something else (i.e. topsides vs. deck; ceiling vs. overhead). I was just figuring you might like to know how to describe the part of the boat you were asking about (I know I do).

Nevertheless, I probably shouldn't have said anything in my first response to you; I did have second thoughts about it but then I let my love of nautical terminology and precise language usage win out :blush:

So please accept my apology if I caused you any negative feelings or cringing; That was not my intention at all, and I really want you to feel welcome here and like you are part of the forum :)

Rachel

No worries, no offense taken. Now I know the right terminology.
-Ben

[Rachel]

No worries, no offense taken. Now I know the right terminology.

Whew, that's good to hear. Now I hope we can see more of your new Triton :)

Rachel

[Zach]

Personally... that looks like a patch job to my eyes... but if it is stiff enough to do what needs to be done and you don't mind staring at it, why not?

If you are planning to fiberglass it later in the season... don't paint it without at least resin coating the wood first.

The fiberglass won't stick to the plywood, without you grinding off all the paint, and a decent depth into the wood... (the oil from the paint wicks into the cells of the wood, and acts like mold release...) which makes even more of a mess.

If you want to resin coat the plywood, you can get some white dye from west system to tint the epoxy so it won't take as many coats to cover with paint.

It really isn't that hard to glass overhead, if you have a table that you can wet out the fiberglass on. If you smear a bit of epoxy thickened with cabosil on the surface first, its even less of a big deal... Just make sure that you have an air roller, and unroll the wet fabric over the surface without letting the weight of the roll hang on the glass that you've already stuck in place. The plywood must be wet out with resin first or it will make for a dry layup... You can even resin coat the plywood and wait for it to get tacky before you start.

(Good time for a tyvec suit and goggles...

[triton274]

So i broke down and decided might as well fix it now, a few boats are in front of me at the yard anyhow....I'll put up some pics once it's done...

[Rachel]

I'm glad to hear you're at least going to check it all out, as it did look a bit suspect to me -- at least from what I could see in the one photo anyway.

Please don't feel you have to wait until it's done to post any photos. We like the gory, surgical-theatre type photos too (and maybe we can provide encouragement as you go along?).

Rachel

[Vark]

My 2 cents..............
I too would bite the bullet and fiberglass the overhead, (deck bottom, ceiling, upper interior surface, inside roof, deck underside or what ever you wish to call it ), plywood does not take paint well, it eventually checks and looks bad, when that happens you'll wish you took the time to glass it but it will be to late. If you don't want to do the job this year sand it well and do as Zack suggested with white pigmented resin.

Vark

[triton274]

So I figured I'm past due for an update on this, I ended up fiberglassing the inside and then painting it, turned out great. Thanks for the advice. Here is a cameraphone picture showing how it looks now:

[Vark]

A little more work but no regrets.