Sealers, Filler Stains and Mahogany

[mdidriksen]

One of my projects this spring is to build a new box around my mast inside the saloon. I'm building this out of sapele faced plywood using honduras mahogany for corner glue blocks (i.e., each corner is a solid piece of mahogany with two rabbits cut into it to inset the plywood sides). I plan on varnishing the finished piece, and in looking at the directions on my can of Pettit Flagship Varnish I see that they recommend using a sealer and then a filler stain on mahogany before applying varnish. So my questions are:

- should I go through the effort of applying a sealer and then 1 or 2 coats of stain before varnishing? All four corners came from the same board, so they will match up nicely, but obviously the sapele came from elsewhere, so perhaps this favors using a stain anyway.

-- does this apply to the sapele plywood as well?

I have no problem with spending the time and effort to make it look good, just wondering if this actually is a process that shows results. Have not worked with mahogany before. If I go with a stain, I expect to use the "standard" stain from Pettit (I assume this is basically a "natural" stain?) or their brown stain.

Thanks in advance!

[Hirilondë]

I don't like stains with a lot of solids in them like filler stains. They cover up the grain too much and often darken the wood more than I want. Actually, I don't like stains of any kind much. Wood is beautiful already and doesn't need my or any one else help with color.

If it is important to you to have the corner trim and the plywood surfaces match in color I would start off by simply varnishing a piece of each and see how they look together. If after the varnish dries you think something has to be done to darken one to better match the other or darken both to make them similar then staining may well be the answer. Keep in mind that stain is merely pigment suspended in a vehicle. The colors and names for these stains were determined by marketing experts. It does not mean that the result even slightly resembles the wood the stain was named after. It will look like what marketing research has shown many people are looking for. The best example I can think of is cherry stain. Cherry is a light almost pink wood, yet most cherry furniture is stained dark red/purple.

The only stain I use on boats, unless something is specified by the owner isn't a store bought stain at all. It is a red pigment that I have found to slightly darken and redden Teak, Cherry and Mahogany to look like the aged material on the boat. I use it simply to blend the new work into the existing interior finish. It has the effect of aging the new material like 10 years or so of oxidation. I suspend the pigment in mineral spirits in quite a dilute solution and wipe it into the new work.

On my boat I have Okoume plywood, Dark Red Meranti, Honduras Mahogany and African Mahogany. Each piece of wood is slightly different in color and no 2 pieces of the same species are exact matches. Each piece of wood is beautiful and I like it. Mother Nature doesn't need my help with the wood, just the fabrication of things out of it.

You may have to experiment some to find what you like. Or you may find that simply varnishing your project is just fine.

[Tim]

One reason you often see paste filler/stain recommended for mahogany is because of mahogany's open grain. Without the filler, you'll simply need more coats of varnish before the varnish starts to build enough to fill the pores for the smoothest finish. Personally, I never liked the look of muddy red/brown-filled mahogany, like one sees on vintage Chris-Crafts and so forth. I prefer how wood looks left natural, with only varnish as a finish.

Use a paste/filler stain or regular stain if you like the look or feel a need to try and blend woods of varying grain or color, but it's never necessary.

[Quetzalsailor]

I'll cast my vote with the no-filler crowd.

That said, you can buy fillers in many colors. The filler does not have to change the color of the wood. You wipe the sludge on, let it thicken a bit as it begins to dry, then wipe it smooth so that only the pores are filled. You can then stain the filled piece with an ordinary oil stain, or you can begin varnishing without stain.

I'd vote against this too: You can buy stains in many colors and degrees of opacity and you control how much or little grain shows. You can, with practice and artistry, imitate wood grain of a different species. This is different than the folks who paint a piece of wood and then 'grain' it to look like some other wood. This can be done so perfectly that you can be fooled at ordinary viewing distances.

When faced with different colors in wood, sun bleaching, etc., you can use a transparent oil stain and wipe on enough to get the desired color or match. Wipe on, let soak in, wipe off. Too light? Do it again. It's predictably tougher when the sun bleached area, or the heart-sap wood difference is distinct. I have stained the sun bleached Makore in Quetzal and I have stained Teak grab rails to match the color of the Makore.

You can also buy water borne stains but when I looked I found that they are more often available in pretty garish colors for marquetry. I had intended to use water borne stain to even out the veneer colors on the FD project before I coated the boat out in epoxy. The epoxy would not have stuck well to oil stains.

As for color testing bare woods, just use water; wipe it on to imitate the color shift that occurs when you varnish. It's close enough for the effect and you won't be stuck trying to tint the next coat of varnish. You can tint varnishes which is easier when the varnish is wiped on, and evened with the rag.

Bear in mind that nothing stays the same color it was when new. Varnishes darken or yellow. Some woods bleach. Other species darken with age. A none-too-extreme example is my harpsichord. When I built it in 1972, the Walnut sharps were a very dark brown, the Cherry naturals were a salmon pink, the Cypress case was a very light beige, the Sitka Spruce soundboard was a creamy white. The sharps are now a light brown, the naturals a lighter brown, the case is a reddish beige, and the soundboard is a dark beige.

[mdidriksen]

Thanks guys. Exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Just finished doing some other varnish work and while I was at it I put a coat on a piece of scrap mahogany from this project. I'll have a look in the morning, but I suspect I'm going with no filler or stain.