Amine blush on cold layup

[galleywench]

Last night I started glassing the starboard deck on Magic but ran out of time before I was able to complete. I had planned on getting 2 layers of biaxial down but ended up with 1 full layer and about 1/3 of the second layer. It was colder than I expected too. When I got up this morning it was 35 degrees (maybe 40 in the shed) and as expected, the layup was still very green. My plan was to finish the second layer this morning, but when I ran my fingers over the layup, there was a noticeable greasy film (amine blush) on the surface. I've heard of cold epoxying causing a lot of amine blush to form, but I was counting on the continuing with the layup because the first layer hasn't fully cured and I could still take advantage of the chemical bond instead of waiting till it cures and getting a mechanical bond via sanding.

So given that the layup is still green, should I worry about the amine blush causing an improper bond or will the epoxy polymers from the second layer still bond with the first layer?

thanks for the help.

I don't think it matter but I'm using System 3

[Tim]

Simply put: if you have blush, you must remove it. Don't shortcut this step. Cold weather exacerbates blush formation. It'd be a mistake to attempt to apply new material without removing what you describe as obvious amine blush on the surface.

Be careful with the colder temperatures. As much as you want to get the job done, it's not wise to continue epoxy work when the temperatures are so low. Anything sub-45° is getting pretty dicey, and even daytime temps this weekend aren't supposed to be much higher than that--never mind the nights, which are forecast to be well below this safe threshhold.

Note that the long cure times required in cold temperatures can have an effect on the cured epoxy's physical properties. You can apply external heat sources (i.e. heat lamps) to keep the temperature higher during the cure time as need be.

[galleywench]

Thanks Tim,
I put some heat lamps on the surface and things have hardened up nicely over the course of the day. I'll get rid of the blush tomorrow before continuing on.

[Lars Svensson]

Just reading up on sys3 epoxy since I'm starting the deck phase of repair, and working in similare conditions.
Where you using the #1 hardener , that they claim will cure down to 35 deg and damp conditions, and still dealing with issues?
Also I noticed that sys3 has a phase two epoxy for composite cored construction. Having used sys3 standard epoxy on a peapod I build it hadn't occured to me that there was a different type for cored decks, allthough it make sence . Is this what is typically used by the people of this forum on cored decks, and also spanning voids such as cuttouts in cabin sides?
btw thanks for a great site that ive come to many times for information and inspiration!

[galleywench]

Just reading up on sys3 epoxy since I'm starting the deck phase of repair, and working in similare conditions.
Where you using the #1 hardener , that they claim will cure down to 35 deg and damp conditions, and still dealing with issues?
Also I noticed that sys3 has a phase two epoxy for composite cored construction. Having used sys3 standard epoxy on a peapod I build it hadn't occured to me that there was a different type for cored decks, allthough it make sence . Is this what is typically used by the people of this forum on cored decks, and also spanning voids such as cuttouts in cabin sides?
btw thanks for a great site that ive come to many times for information and inspiration!

I'm using the general purpose with #2 hardener (rated to 55 degrees). I haven't used the phase two epoxy. 3 - 100 watt work lamp bulbs have kept the temp in the 50 - 60 degree range over the past few days and the layup has hardened up nicely, but I am going to keep the lamps on for a few more days just to make sure. The shed casts a cool ethereal glow at night with the lights on. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm whacked. This upcoming weekend I'll crank up the torpedo heater for the day when I can keep an eye on it. I can get the shed up above 65 degrees with the temps below freezing with it. That should seal the deal (literally).

Are you just getting started on your boat? I'm always looking for another alberg 35 owner to commiserate with?

[Lars Svensson]

Aaa yes misery does love company doen't it ?(1/2 cidding of course).Geisha has been sitting next to my shop waiting patiently for a year and a half while I built the shop and put a shed roof over her. Removed most of the interior not inc the forepeak and about 60% of the deck and core material. It would be nice to have someone that has ventured into the unknown before me that I can glean ideas from. For example the A35 hull to deck joint is different than any other pearson that I have seen.Maybe you have some insight on sealing it up.

[galleywench]

... the A35 hull to deck joint is different than any other pearson that I have seen.Maybe you have some insight on sealing it up.

I've been wondering about that myself. I did pull all the screws out of the toerail but in some areas it still has a bedding compound that is keeping it in place. Originally I was going to take it off right away, but with the mess I am making with the epoxy, it offers a modicum of protection when I am going up and down the ladder. If I had taken it off I would have been getting sticky stuff on the outer bulwarks.
I did see a schematic of the joint a few years ago but I can't track it down now. I'm hoping that I won't find a mess when I do replace the toerail. I haven't seen any evidence of the joint leaking though.

[Lars Svensson]

I pulled the toerail off and found the material between the bulwark top flange, and the top edge of the hull, had fallen out in places.
When water enters these openings, either from rain or burying the rail it seems to find its way to the genoa track thru-bolts,and no matter how well I've bedded them water enters the cabin. Structurally I don't believe this is an issue since there is a large flange attaching the hull to the under side of the sub-deck.
1 Would a bead of 3M 5200 be adequate?
2 Tape the flange to hull ,feather and paint top-sides.
1 seems to easy and 2 seems overkill.
I saw you're site. Very impressive deck repair, and I may use you're sand bag technique.

[galleywench]

I pulled the toerail off and found the material between the bulwark top flange, and the top edge of the hull, had fallen out in places.
When water enters these openings, either from rain or burying the rail it seems to find its way to the genoa track thru-bolts,and no matter how well I've bedded them water enters the cabin. Structurally I don't believe this is an issue since there is a large flange attaching the hull to the under side of the sub-deck.
1 Would a bead of 3M 5200 be adequate?
2 Tape the flange to hull ,feather and paint top-sides.
1 seems to easy and 2 seems overkill.
I saw you're site. Very impressive deck repair, and I may use you're sand bag technique.

I think once I get into the toerail job I'll have to see. I am going to leave them on until I finish all the deck work. They serve as a nice splash guard for all the sticky work I'm doing now. My eventual plan is to bed the new toerail and genoa track with 5200, but I may have to re-evaluate once I get in there. My genoa track leaks as well and is so warped from years of use, I am going to get new ones. Hopefully they will seal better.

It is so easy to get overwhelmed with my project. I find that if I start thinking about all the major projects I have ahead, I make myself crazy. One thing at a time unless they are inextricably tangled and need to be addressed at the same time.
1. All decks recored and faired to a primed state.
2. Toerail and cockpit coaming fitting
3. Beyond that; stop thinking about it.

[Lars Svensson]

It is so easy to get overwhelmed with my project. I find that if I start thinking about all the major projects I have ahead, I make myself crazy.

Yup, I can relate to that.