Dinghies and nesting

[Quetzalsailor]

I'd like to bump the dinghy responses from Storm Closures over to here.

We own three lousy dinghies, an Achilles 8' inflatable that's too small, an 8' hard chine fiberglass dink that's too small, and a 9.4' 'Watertender', a rotomoulded tri-hull that's too heavy and doomed to premature failure for lack of rub strips on the bottom 'ribs' of the hull. The Watertender is stable and large enough, serves as a work platform at our mooring, is proof against dawg paws and sand. It doesn't tow well; it's heavy and headstrong. It's too big, as most everything is, and too heavy to be lashed down on deck.

I think a nesting dink that looks like a Whitehall, planes under sail like an FD, planes under power, rows well, tows well, and is light enough and tough enough to withstand hoisting on deck, and whose half would serve as a dinghy, too, would be just the thing!

Oh yes, and inexpensive.

[Case]

Heh. A dinghy like that doesn't truly exist.

However, a Spindrift might be the ticket for you. You do have to build it yourself. Some will build it for you but it won't come cheap!

A Spindrift rows well, sails well, and will plane under sail or with a 3-4 hp outboard (1 guy only). It is available in take nesting versions. There are other dinghy designs that will sail or motor or row better than the Spindrift but the Spindrift can do it all decently.

It sounds like you need to decide which of these is most important: Motoring ability or sailing ability or rowing ability. Add to those, is it important that its portable (easy to carry) or not. Picking one will lose somewhere else so decide well at first...

You may do well to choose a dinghy that sails and rows well then get a 11 foot air floor inflatable for stability and high speeds with a larger outboard. Expensive but best of both worlds.

- Case

[Chris Campbell]

What's that about a boat looking like a Whitehall and doing everything else well too?
http://www.gaboats.com/boats/classic10.html

Of course there could be a durability problem - but it sounds like they're better than you might think, and much easier to repair (like roll of tape easy).

We have an 8' plywood pram that does reasonably well but is uninspired, a Caribe 9 Light (RIB) that is very stable but despite the light designation too heavy and the 10hp 4-stroke outboard won't plane it with three people and takes two of us to get off the dinghy and onto the mothership for towing (the dinghy is essentially untowable with it on), a 10' aluminum roll up floored Zeppelin inflatable that does better with a 5 hp than the Carib with a 10 but is old and leaky, and a couple of other heavier wooden rowboats that aren't really tenders at all. None of these are ideal, and I think I want what Bill (of Bolero fame) has ordered the plans for: a Iain Oughtred Auk. It'll be much like the 8' pram we have, but gorgeous - so it'll row, tow, sail and stow well enough. All we need to worry about is capsizing and marring the topsides of the mothership - and I think those two downsides are manageable. Oh - then there's the bigger downside - I have to build it!

[Hirilondë]

I can't even tally all of the hours I spent trying to decide on a tender. Part of me really wanted to build a real classic plank on frame dinghy for the experience of the build and my desire for the most beautiful design I could find. In the end, the practical side of me sat down and made a list of all the characteristics I wanted. The Spindrift nesting version is in my opinion the absolute best compromise that sails, rows, motors, hauls stuff, tows, fits on deck and still looks good. I even went so far as to visit Graham Byrnes at his shop in North Carolina. I spent 3 days sailing his designs with other builders. I toured Graham's shop and spent a good bit of time talking shop and socializing with him.

There are other dinghy designs that will sail or motor or row better than the Spindrift but the Spindrift can do it all decently.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't think there is another sailing tender that can beat the Spindrift in a sailing race.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/spin.htm

Graham Byrnes is just now really getting the recognition he deserves. Woodenboat Magazine has named him the designer of the year. Mystic Seaport will be featuring him the the small boat show this spring.

I have built 2 of his tenders, my Spindrift and his Minipaw, which is a 6'6" pram for those who need a really small tender. My customer for the Minipaw had tried everything for a portable tender and now he wouldn't even think of getting anything else. You can certainly find more beautiful desings, in a classic sense that is. But when you come to the realization that a tender is a work boat, I don't think anything else comes close to the versatility of the Spindrift.

[Bluenose]

What's that about a boat looking like a Whitehall and doing everything else well too?
http://www.gaboats.com/boats/classic10.html

Of course there could be a durability problem - but it sounds like they're better than you might think, and much easier to repair (like roll of tape easy).

We have an 8' plywood pram that does reasonably well but is uninspired, a Caribe 9 Light (RIB) that is very stable but despite the light designation too heavy and the 10hp 4-stroke outboard won't plane it with three people and takes two of us to get off the dinghy and onto the mothership for towing (the dinghy is essentially untowable with it on), a 10' aluminum roll up floored Zeppelin inflatable that does better with a 5 hp than the Carib with a 10 but is old and leaky, and a couple of other heavier wooden rowboats that aren't really tenders at all. None of these are ideal, and I think I want what Bill (of Bolero fame) has ordered the plans for: a Iain Oughtred Auk. It'll be much like the 8' pram we have, but gorgeous - so it'll row, tow, sail and stow well enough. All we need to worry about is capsizing and marring the topsides of the mothership - and I think those two downsides are manageable. Oh - then there's the bigger downside - I have to build it!

Chris,

That is the same dink that is on my list. Unfortunately it got bumped from this years projects list. maybe next winter.

I did order the plans so at least I can sit and stare now and again.

Bill

[Tom Young]

I almost went for a Joel White Shellback dinghy a couple years ago. A friend was selling one he used as a dinghy(sold the big boat). It was well built by a boatbuilder, hardly used and I couldn't buy the materials for the price.

Why? Performance. The Shellback is a couple feet longer, sleeker, a better boat to row or sail than my 9'6" Nutshell. Under oar, it'll move faster, glide farther. Same under sail, especially with just one onboard. As we're sailing less and less with kids now in college, I was very tempted.....

But nothing, especially in a dinghy, is without trade offs. At first glance, the Shellback appears to be a lengthened Nutshell with a foot of bow added, and a bit of stern overhang.



It's more than that. The Shellback is much narrower at the waterline. Much. All you need do is step into it to discover the difference. And speaking of stepping in it, don't even think of doing that in the bow of course.

So I reconsidered upping my rowing and sailing performance, at least for now. I still need the stability and load hauling of the Nutshell. The Nutshell gives up performance to the Shellback but you can step into it, nearly the gunwales without fear of capsize. Same for the sailor. We raised kids sailing that boat and never had (or feared) a capsize with them. And I suspect it tows better than a Shellback having tugged prams for decades all over. The bow is a hard shape to beat for a tender.

[Tom Young]

Not to get off the nesting part, another dinghy I owned for several years was a nice Cape Dory 10. I bought it to use for sailing the small lakes around our home in Vermont while our sailboat was in Maine.

For a few seasons, we would daysail the CD10, then spend a weekend in Maine rowing and sailing the Nutshell. I was able to compare the two boats traits often.

Talk about 2 different boats. The CD10 would outsail and outrow the Nutshell. Then, our kids were tiny so essentially, we carried a smaller load.

But I realized very early on, the CD10 would have not been much of a tender for us in Maine. We often put the rail under with the CD lake sailing in some gusts and never saw the sea conditions we encounter on the coast of Maine. The photo below very well reminds me how tender the little boat was. He's a just a gust from going over if he's not quick.

But what a nice tender for 2 people. It tows pretty well too. The CD14 would have been fine, but that's too much length for a dinghy.

[Challenger949L]

We are thinking of towing our dinghy, ( a Yankee Heritage 10) which is not nesting, on a trip up the Cheapeake this summer. I am for it, my wife thinks it will slow us down too much? Thoughts?


Jimmy Small
Sabre 28 Espadon
Alden Challenger Kittiwake

[Tom Young]

Towing anything slows you down of course but how much, that's a good question. I have friends that tow hard dinghys and inflatables (sometimes at the same time, kids onboard), he claims the inflatable has a lot more drag than his Nutshell pram. His inflatable has an inflatable bottom though.

Your Herirtage 10 looks like a nice boat Jimmy. It would be worth it just for the rowing and sailing you could do in the backwaters of the Chesapeake. What do you usually tow, or don't you?

I think of the dinghy as the last item to trim under sail on our boat. After the sails are trimmed aft, I adjust the dinghys painter to get it nicely trimmed, and hopefully dragging the least.

It would be nice if someone like Practical Sailor headed out with a flottila of dinghys and tied them all to a scale to measure the drag.

There's some information I could actually use.

[Tom Young]

Here's a photo from several years ago of my daughter and a friend sailing our Nutshell dinghy. It's a very nimble light air sailer, especially with a couple, then, 10 year olds for weight. We used to keep a streamer on the masthead that helped the kids learn which way was.. "go"..

Jimmys post above reminds me of all the sails we've had as a family over the years in our sailing dinghy. Because we always carried the rig with us, we used it for fun in countless anchorages as well as for utility for many longer distance sails, many of which would have been much more tiring by oar.

Hard dinghys are still popular on the coast of Maine. I'd have to say for local boats, it's unclear if inflatables have outnumbered them. However farther south it looks to me like inflatables rule.

It could be our hard beaches. I've about worn off half of the white oak keel I put on this boat 17 years ago dragging it up Maine shorelines. The bronze shoe has been gone for a decade.

[Challenger949L]

We usually do not tow one,I hope we decide to this time. The Yankee Heritage 10 rows well and is sturdy, even with a couple of creepy kids in it. (6 year old photo)

Jimmy Small
Sabre 28 Espadon
Alden Challenger Kittiwake

[Hirilondë]

It would be nice if someone like Practical Sailor headed out with a flottila of dinghys and tied them all to a scale to measure the drag.

That would be a worthwhile project. I think as a generalization you could say that the easier the dinghy planes, the easier it tows. Most of us can and often do sail at speeds great enough to plane an 8' dinghy (3.67 kts.). And as soon as the dinghy planes its drag is decreased substantially. I think you can generalize as well that inflatables are the worst dinghies of all for adding drag. Even the HBI's, though better, are still more than I would want behind a small cruising boat.

I use a rather long painter for towing. The Spindrift planes so easily, and surfs waves so well that it can over take me if it isn't way behind to begin with.

[Duncan]

...another dinghy I owned for several years was a nice Cape Dory 10...

I had bought my CD27 (three years ago), but I had to wait for the summer to go pick it up.
In the interim, I talked myself into a nice CD10 "as a present for the new boat".



I had SO much fun with that dinghy that summer. I cartopped her down to Rhode Island, where I took delivery of the Cape Dory 27, sailed around there, and then home to Montreal. The CD10 was a treat to sail and to row, towed easily, and was a great new toy.



Having said that, she's a lovely boat, but I agree that she's not the ideal yacht tender.

1) When towing, she tracks well, but she took on water through the centerboard trunk. I capped that temporarily, but some water still gets in, so she's heavier by the end of the day.

2) She's a bit tippy, as Tom Young notes. I had a crewman capsize her, trying to board in moderate seas.

3) The beautiful mahogany gunwales bang into the hull, and get beat up on docks.

So, is it "worth it" to have a wonderful sailing/rowing dinghy that maybe isn't the most practical piece of equipment?

Depends, of course. For what I do ("cruising vacations"), sure - some of my nicest cruising memories are of sailing around the anchorages, just socializing and having fun. There is also the pleasure of making a long sail or row into shore, or back out to the boat, without the whine of an outboard. I am (so far) willing to put up with her impracticalities for those added experiences.

On the other hand, a more stable dinghy, one I could nest on deck or deflate, a boat that was more of a "work boat", could be quite appealing if I was living aboard or making long passages.

PS. If anyone can suggest some way of padding the gunwales (or below them, like a rub rail), in a way that complements the boat, I would be very happy to hear of it.

[Rachel]

Hi Duncan,

A sailing/rowing dinghy is a lot of fun in anchorages, and I agree that it's quite nice to "socialize" when you are under oar power instead of outboard.

I brought my Fatty Knees 7' along cruising, and I thought it made a pretty good tender. Although it is tiny, it's a surprisingly good "freighter," and would happily haul two of us (not tiny people), four full 6-gallon jerries, and whatever else we could fit in - all in one trip.

I see that your Cape Dory 10 is a work of art, and how you really have to think twice before changing anything. Here are a couple of ideas for making her more friendly alongside:

1) Gunwale guard is really effective, and I think it looks nice, too. You can fasten the top flap first, with the material "upside down," and then roll it over and down and fasten the lower flap. That way you don't see the fasteners or the flap on the top of the gunwale.



The photo is from Hamilton Marine's website.

You can see it on these Trinkas:



Another possibility is to make pool-noodle sponsons. I tried some of these on the FK for extra stability while snorkeling from the boat, and it was pretty dramatic - you could just about stand on the gunwale without capsizing. I used the ~5" jumbo noodles (available at Wal-Mart and probably other places too). You can sew canvas sleeves for them to protect them and make them look at little better (and you could include grommet flaps or what have to to attach them to the boat). I carved a bit of a flat spot on one side to go against the hull, and the gunwale helped hold them down (they go just below the gunwale). Not nearly as elegant as the former idea, but they are less permanently attached and they do give you extra stability if you want it.

Rachel

[Duncan]

Thanks, Rachel. The gunwale guard certainly looks traditional and durable, too.
I've seen the pool noodle idea elsewhere. That might be just the thing for temporary, removable protection.

Thanks again, you are always so helpful!

[Tom Young]

Rachael is right Duncan. We use that gunwale guard on our Nutshell. It's pricey but when you figure we get nearly 10 years out of it, and that's storing the dinghy outside over the winter, it's a pretty good deal. It's the only type of fender I've had work on a hard dinghy. Your beautiful CD10 would look great with it installed.