Looking For 8" Fiberglass Tape

[John Stone]

Does anyone know of a source for 8" wide 17 oz biaxial tape or 8" wide 10-14 oz fiberglass tape. I have 8.7 oz tape but I am looking for something a bit heavier.

I have tried the internet and looked at all the normal suppliers without any luck.

[Zach]

How many yards do you need?

Buy a pair of Wiss #22's that are 12 1/4 inches long. They are 30 dollars here: http://bodico.com/detail.aspx?ID=821

I bought mine for 39 bucks before tax through Paxton. I was thinking about trying to put together a group buy, but... wow.
It takes absolutely no time to cut tabbing with them, 6 inches per snip and they'll cut 6 layers of 1708 no problem.

Fold the cloth over on its self, cut it to width. When you get down to about 2 feet of width start stacking up the pieces and cut them all together.

Zach

[Idon84]

Noah's has 8" as well as just about everything else.

http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noahus ... =0&Tp=&Bc=

BTW... Infinity(from link above) is the place I buy ALL of my Mas epoxy. Great people. They can do custom cuts but it cost more so I buy my epoxy here and my cloth at Noah's. Check out the price on the MAS 1g hardners... $40 less than just about anywhere else!!!
http://stores.infinityfrp.com/StoreFront.bok

[John Stone]

The only 8" glass tape I saw in their online catalogue is 9oz cloth tape. Maybe I am not looking in the right place.

[Idon84]

Website has become more confusing since I last ordered... Try this...

http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noahus ... M8&eq=&Tp=

You are looking for 17oz tape (1700 biax cloth)? Or 1708 which is a 17oz double bias cloth with a .75oz mat cloth stiched to it (technically more 18oz than 17oz)? It is listed as 18oz at NOAH's.

If you are looking without the .75oz mat I can't help you...

I've used both and REALLY prefer the 1708 to the standard 1700. All bulkheads on my boat received 3 layers of the stuff starting with 4" up to 8" occasionally using 10" in major stress areas.

Good luck.

[John Stone]

Bryon,
That's the stuff. Do you happen to know if the matt is stiched on the back or if it is attached with a binder? The starch binder is needs styrene to disolve and is not compatible with epoxy.

By the way, I took a look at your website. I felt right at home. Our efforts are similar. Take a look. http://www.farreachvoyages.com

Thanks for taking the time to find this.

I'll call them tomorrow.

Regards,
John

[Tim]

All biax tapes and fabrics that have mat attached feature stitched mats with no binders.

[Idon84]

Wow! We're of the same type of craziness I think. Just rip it all apart and start anew. I once had a friend (whom also built a BCC himself although from new) told me that I needed to start and finish each project before starting another one. If I would have listened to him I would still be on year 1. You have to be able to switch gears, think about this issue you just left while you are working on something else. You seem to have everything apart and doing the same.

I had the same question about binders dispelled in much the same way.

Good Luck!

Bryon

[Idon84]

Something I would add though about NOAH's Biax. The stitching.

My first round of buying 1708 biax was through Jamestown Distributors. I just LOVED the way the stuff worked. When I got my replenishment stock from NOAH's (which I bought enough to finish the job) the fabric looked & worked much different than the stuff I got from Jamestown. The stitching from Noah's comes from the mat side while the stitching at Jamestown comes from the laid fiber side. This didn't sound like much but when working the NOAH's biax from the fiber side (Mat side down) the individual fibers would pull up and loose making a mess of everything because the stitching was not sufficient to hold it all together. Needless to say I felt like I got what I paid for. After some time brewing I just figured out that I could do all of the work from the Mat stitched side. The moment I did this I no longer had any issues. FYI.

[Idon84]

Been talking with John via PM about this and wanted to get everyone a picture of what I meant.
Noah's has the X on it. JD is the small piece. Note the stitching.

It is harder to see the stitching on the mat side but Noah's has the same amount of stitching on the mat side as JD has on the fiber side.

Obviously when working with Noah's stuff one has to be careful to not accidentally pull out one of the long fibers which is just about impossible with JD's stuff. If you turn NOAH's so the fiber side is down you don't have to worry about messing up the lay. You can see just how harry the Noah's is over the JD too.

[John Stone]

Bryon,
Your insights have been a great help. Since I have a big roll of 38" biaxial from JD I have decided to cut my own 8" wide tape. The hull-deck joint and the high level of follow-on fairing requires the best quailty fabric I can use. It's been an education.

Many thanks for providing insightful input.

Best,
John

[Rachel]

That is really useful - thanks. I can already imagine myself getting frustrated with the "x" sample.

Do you by any chance know what the source brand is for either of those? Is one a "reproducible" name brand like Episize (WEST) or etc.? (I looked in Jamestown's online catalog and I see they sell both Episize (their part #WSY-....) and an "I'm not sure what brand" (their part # FIB-....)

I'm not one to buy something "just" for the brand name, but I could see myself happily spending more for that easier to handle biax, if I knew which one it was.

Thanks,

Rachel

[Idon84]

Don't really know for sure. I'll be back at the boat on Saturday and can look to see if I have anything.

I was SO frustrated when started to work with the stuff. Every-time I went to squeegee the air out I ended up catching a fiber and making a mess of everything. Again though once I turned it over all was fine. But I can see why it is about 1/3 less than the stuff JD sells.

[Tim]

Jamestown's biax is often Certainteed brand, though the last reel I got had no branding information visible. It is, however, indistinguishable from Certainteed in terms of appearance and performance.

[Rachel]

Thanks for that additional info.

Okay, so I'm sitting here trying to think if there is anything undesirable about using biaxmat "upside down" (that's what you're doing, right Idon?).

I have this idea in mind that the mat is there to kind of "pad" the spaces in between the layers of biax, or between hard fiberglass (say, a lower deck skin) which makes me think there might be some benefit to putting it on right-side-up (biax side up) because then the mat is fresh and "soft" when the biax goes down on top of it, vs. being cured from the last layer (of course this would not apply when putting all layers on at once).

On the other hand, it's been a while since I read up on this and I don't have my references to hand, so I might be making this up.

So is there any potential downside to working with the biaxmat "upside down" with the mat side up?

Rachel

[Idon84]

Correct. I was thinking about the possible effects as well but couldn't think of anything major except being sure that there were no bubbles between the fiber and the hull. So the first round went down into slightly thickened MAS FLAG resin which I squeegeed out. All subsequent layers were installed when prior piece was close to tack.

One nice benefit is that the mat layer is easier to sand and fair out than the fiber side. Installation and bubble removal worked in pretty much the same way.

[avd155]

So wait, what side is supposed to be laid down first...mat or cloth (woven)?

[Rachel]

Well usually it goes mat side down, woven side up. Idon is using it "upside down" to compensate for the particular stitching on his Noah's product that makes the fibers on the woven side hard for him to manage.

I just had this nagging (but quite possibly invalid) feeling that there was a good reason for using it mat side down (especially if you are going to go back post-cure and add more layer(s)).

Rachel

[Idon84]

And I would agree. Moral of the story... buy the good stuff and don't worry about it.

I'm going to have a TON left over from my job. Any takers? Cheap! *grin*

[Zach]

Rachel,

I've talked with some epoxy reps that say a layup of biax without a mat back holds up just fine with epoxy, the mat is there to reduce the distance between the layers. I gather that with polyester or vinylester it might matter more that there are layers of mat in the layup, but some of the more racey stuff being built doesn't have any in it. Pretty much just there as a bulking agent for quicker buildup.

If I am planning to go back and do some grinding on cured stuff laid up in biax, I'll flip the last layer mat up so I'm grinding the mat and not the biax. Figure as far as strength goes the boat cries less if the mat is turned to dust. (Grin.)

Cheers,

Zach