Sail conversion to roller furling.

[barrybrown]

I am adding roller furling and need to convert a jib, does anyone have any recommendations for sailmakers? I plan to do it this winter.
Price is my main consideration. Thanks
Barry

[Matt B.]

Go local, it's not a big job and the hassle of shipping and not being in direct contact with your sailmaker make it pointless to do otherwise. Also, even if you could save a little money, you're more likely to get a good result from a local guy when it comes to converting the sail.

Pay attention to the age and condition of the sail, too. If it's too old and worn, the conversion is pointless, you're better off spending the money on a new headsail.

[jollyboat]

Hello Barry,
I think using your local sail maker is good idea too. If you have not installed the furling unit yet, it is really pointless to bring the sail to sail maker until you have installed the furler as the sail maker will need several measurements to perform the re-cut including the new "max hoist" measurement from the furler as well as the height of the "gate" on the luff foil measured up from the tack pin on the furling unit. This will let the sail maker know where to end the luff tape as it (the luff tape) will not run the full length of the luff. The conversion is simple enough. Once the sail maker has the measurements, (if your boat is within striking distance, most sail makers will go to your boat to measure it, and most will measure the entire boat - then your boat will be on file with them and you can order sails at will.) they will be able to carry out the conversion. Issues to consider will be the installation of a UV cover and whether or not your existing sail is worth the expense. If the sail is in reasonable shape most sail makers can do a fairly remarkable job in recutting, converting and installing a UV cover on your existing hank on sail. Cost will of course be a consideration. If it turns out that after you have spent considerable amount of money on the furler and do not much left to spend on the sail, ask the sail maker to provide a quote for recutting the luff to length and installing the luff tape only. (the sail maker will typically have to also install new head and tack rings or webbed loops for this job as well but that will be included in the estimate) You can skip the installation of the UV cover for this season and either hoist and raise and remove the headsail when through with your sail or use a sock to cover the sail should you decide to leave the sail furled in place on the furler. It is not at all recommended that you leave your sail furled on the furler without a UV cover of some kind, otherwise your sail will very shortly suffer (rot) greatly from UV exposure.

[catamount]

You can also convert the sail yourself if you have access to a sewing machine. A hot knife is useful, too. SailRite (http://www.sailrite.com/) has instructions (but I think they are no longer free)--you may be able to find similar instructions online somewhere else, too. When I did it, the sail already had a luff tape on it because I was converting from a racing foil headstay to a roller furler. So I used a seam ripper to remove the existing luff tape, and then cut a wedge off the leading edge of the sail per SailRite's instructions (you measure in such a way that you re-produce the luff-curve when you cut the new leading edge). This shortens the sail because you end up moving the head of the sail down the leech a bit (usually converting a sail required shortening the luff). I then re-attached the luff tape to the new leading edge and webbed a ring back on to the new head of the sail. I also cut, glued and then sewed on a foam luff pad to help with the shape of a partially furled sail.

If you're converting from hanks, the wedge you cut off the luff will remove all your grommets and hanks, you just need to add a new luff tape.

I never did get around to putting a sun shade on the leech and foot of the sail, so we would take the sail down if we were leaving the boat for more than a day or two (which is a good idea even if you have sun shades!). This was an older sail that was due for replacement soon anyway, and it really was just an experiment and an attempt to tide me over until I could afford to have a new properly fitted sail purpose made -- but we won races with it none-the-less, and I still have it as a spare!

An alternative to either converting an existing sail or having a new one made might be to acquire a used sail of appropriate dimensions that is already set up for use with your furlers. Bacon's (http://www.baconsails.com/) seems to generally have a good selection, and there are other used sail dealers as well.

Good Luck,

Tim A.

[barrybrown]

Brian,
Thanks for the advise. I always prefer to buy local when prices are competitive, however even on a small boat such as the Triton I estimate that careful shopping will save between 8 and 10 thousand dollars in the course of the refit. As you know the best time to have sail repair done is in the winter when it is not always possible to obtain proper measurements, this is a jib with a luff short enough to hoist with the roller furling without shortening and because it is a jib and not a genoa I believe that it will still lead satisfactorily. The sail is either new or nearly new (it came with the boat) otherwise I would wait and have a new sail built.
I found a sailmaker with reasonable prices for this repair as well as some canvas work about 50 miles drive from home which works for me.
Barry

[barrybrown]

Tim A.
Thanks for the suggestion, quite a few years back I bought a used sewing machine and paid to have it adapted for sail repair, it is still sitting in my cellar unused, I never learned how to use it. The sail in question is nearly new and I don't want to risk destroying it on a first attempt at sailmaking. I am aware of Sailrite and have one of their books laying around somewhere, I just lack the confidence to attempt it on a good sail, your approach of learning on a well used sail is more sensible.
Barry

[jollyboat]

Hey Barry,
What kind of machine do you have? Who makes it? You gotta get that going for you. In the cellar? Oh come on - that needs to be in your living room! ! !

[bhartley]

I have a Sailrite LZ-1 walking foot sewing machine that easily goes through 8-10 layers of Sunbrella. Sail cloth (new-ish) at least is a different animal. When I had issues sewing through many layers, Sailrite recommended special barbed needles that actually "cut" throught the sailcloth rather than trying to puncture it. If you're going to do your own conversion I would HIGHLY recommend getting the right needles for the job.

I have been sewing for many, many years so the roller furling conversion was very straightforward. The hardest part was the math! I have done two sails - one older as the experiment and one quite new for our other boat. I am very happy with both and would do it again in a minute. It is not rocket science. You are sewing in a straight line. It would certainly help to have some sewing experience on a smaller project first to gain confidence and coordination. Handling a crisp, bulky sail can be daunting! Sewing on the floor work very well if you have a large open space.

Sailrite can set you up with a kit or just the materials you will need. Make sure you buy the UV resistent thread or you will be wasting your time. The people at Sailrite are top-notch on the phone.

[barrybrown]

Brian,
The machine is a Singer model 237 made in Italy, it is a very heavy rugged zig-zag machine with foot control as well as hand crank but totally useless without the skill to operate it.

Bly,
If I had known how skilled you were I would have dropped it off at your house instead of taking it to the sailmaker. Having years of sewing experience puts you in a different class from those of us with none. Maybe when I find some spare time I will try to learn.

By the way your stern rail looks fine on my boat.
Barry

[Stubrow]

Leaving aside the issue about which sail you should use, just thought I'd throw my 2 cnts in here. I've probably done over 50 of these conversions. It's certainly not rocket science, but there is a knack to doing it right that comes with experience. Especially getting the acrylic fabric sewn down flat. I used to use a LOT of staples, (which, of course all have to come out after sewing) and a long arm machine machine. Any kind of taping always shows through on the non covered side and turns yellow. There may be better materials now, and all kinds of better techniques, (this was more than 10 years ago) but don't let them talk you into using a stick on material like Tedlar.
The other thing is that certain colors fade faster than others, and the ubiquitous bright blue that you see everywhere, though perhaps not everyones cup of tea, just NEVER fades, for some reason. If you pay someone to do it, I would have them show you one recently done if possible, because I've seen, so called professional jobs that looked horrible. Another factor that should weigh against doing it yourself, is that the material itself if quite expensive, especially if you buy it retail, and especially if you don't start out with a cloth efficient layout. So I can't think the savings would be that significant. That being said, (phew..), the committed DIYer, with the right equipment and enough patience, can certainly manage it, and may just have fun doing it, as I did.

[bhartley]

The common desk stapler (and staple remover) is your friend when doing any kind of upholstery or sail work.

[Stubrow]

The common desk stapler (and staple remover) is your friend when doing any kind of upholstery or sail work.

Yup! Being handy with the staple remover was key. But I think the best stapler you could buy at an office supply store for this particular application was made by Arrow. I think it had a reach of 18" and cost $100. Not that big a span if you are doing a big sail. I had some guy make me a couple that could reach about 24". Unfortunately it would only make a secure staple about 1 out of 3 times. This was a very 'bush league' operation, so I'm sure that someone has now figured out a better way of doing it. But I had 2 employees and together we did probably hundreds this way. And we did a 'quality job'.

rb