A Reefing System Question

[Bluenose]

Okay, it only seems like only yesterday that I asked the "brilliant" question about mechanical advantage and the number of turns around the winch. And for some reason this question seems to come from the same place. But here goes.

I have been working on getting the reefing system setup and working on Bolero and have been making good progress. Mostly I have borrowed and stole ideas from others more knowledgeable than I. Here is what my system looks like so far.

Here is the mast end.



And the boom end.



And as I mentioned it is working pretty well. The snap shackle at the tack is quick to hook up and release and it only takes a reasonable effort to take in the clew. And everything is nice and handy at the mast.

But... What I don't like is the way the sail get trapped by the clew line that wraps under the boom and through the reef grommet.



So I was thinking, which is the beginning of all my stupid ideas, what if I set up the clew like I do the tack and use a ring and only pull down from the starboard side. Like so.





And finally the question. Is this a bad idea? Am I overloading the track? Or twisting the boom?

Part of my reason for asking is that I have never seen this setup before. All of the clew reefing systems seem to tie the line on the port side of the boom run through the reef grommet and to the turning block on the starboard side of the boom.

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have as I like the way the sail lays over the boom without creases and keeping the mainsheet blocks and the line controls on the starboard side available.






If I have totally missed something, please let me have it. I am sitting down.

Cheers, Bill

ps.. Bolero sails like a dream with one reef point

[Oscar]

Bring the ring to the end of the boom.

[Hirilondë]

You are exerting a twisting force on the boom, but I don't think it is enough to matter. You are pulling the new clew to the side. You are losing the 2 :1 advantage you used to have. All of your reef ties are still bunching the sail, and that doesn't seem to bother you. I don't know that your idea is bad, but I don't see that it is good either.

[Oscar]

Hence my idea to bring the ring to the end of the boom. The purchase is back, and the force is a little more centered, but the line off the furled part of the sail. Still pulling back and down. Especially with the track he can adjust to get the right balance between the two.

[Bluenose]

You are exerting a twisting force on the boom, but I don't think it is enough to matter. You are pulling the new clew to the side. You are losing the 2 :1 advantage you used to have. All of your reef ties are still bunching the sail, and that doesn't seem to bother you. I don't know that your idea is bad, but I don't see that it is good either.

Thanks Dave,

I haven't re-rigged anything, just kind of thinking outloud. Just to be clear the "sail bunching" I don't like is the sail gathered between the highly tension reef line at the clew. I really wrench on this to keep the foot tensioned and it really mashes the part of the sail it traps. The gathering tie lines (which I cut too short) just gather up the mostly rolled sail.

Maybe none of this matters. The original Shields sails were "rolled, not folded" (don't get Tim started on this one) so maybe I just need a little time to adjust while the sails get wrinkled and old.

Oscar,

Thanks as well for your input. Definitely something to ponder next time I am out on the boat.

Cheers, Bill

[Tim]

You won't hurt your sail with the reef lines in the original configuration, but if you're not comfortable with it that's OK too. Your sail will soften with age and use anyway.

Can you get enough tension on the second version to pull the leech and foot really tight? Not just on a calm day on the mooring, but in the wind strengths at which you'll be reefing? That's the greatest benefit of the first configuration--it allows the sail to be flattened nicely when you tuck in the reef.

But if you get it adequately tensioned in appropriate wind strengths using the ring, there's no reason not to try that approach. The twisting effect may or may not be a problem, but in general it's better to balance the loads, or lead the line to the end of the boom. Without a reefing winch, getting that reefed leech and foot tight in 20 knots of wind is going to be a bear either way, but particularly in your modified configuration where you no longer even have the minimal 2:1 advantage.

I don't think there are any strong reasons to NOT try your approach and see how it goes, but I am not sure it's going to end up being stellar either.

[Hirilondë]

Hence my idea to bring the ring to the end of the boom. The purchase is back, and the force is a little more centered, but the line of the furled part of the sail. Still pulling back and down. Especially with the track he can adjust to get the right balance between the two.

The potential disadvantage to this would be that you are considerably changing the angle that the clew is pulled at to much more aft. With out trying it you can't know, but as it will change the angle of force on the clew to much more aft, hence less down, it may distort the shape of the sail. When rigging a boom, the location of the reefing line origin and the cheek block for each reef point are some what critical, and are based on the location of the new clew grommet (or the reef points are designed to match the boom if a new sail for an old boom).

If you can try any or all of the options with out drilling holes or other permanent alterations you may not like, give any of them that interest you a try. You won't know for sure if you don't.

[Figment]

I can't recall... do you have a boomkicker? If so, then yes any twist in the boom will cause problems at the boomkicker fitting.

Why the ring? Why not just tie off to the reef clew?
I think I'd miss the 2:1 (less a bunch of friction) advantage of having the reef line pass through the clew to a fixed point. That main is the same size as mine, I'm a fairly strong guy, and even on a 2:1 it's a chore.

Why the snapshackle instead of a reef hook at the tack pin? That lashing looks stout, but the pigtail at the end leaves too much "play" for my taste. When trying to flatten a reefed sail with halyard and reef line, I wouldn't want any wiggle room at the one fixed point left.

[Bluenose]

I can't recall... do you have a boomkicker? If so, then yes any twist in the boom will cause problems at the boomkicker fitting.

No the boomkicker didn't make the cut. A real estate issue mostly. It was always going to be last and now that I have the vang, cunningham and outhaul setup pretty well there doesn't seem to be much space left. I also found that I don't mind the topping lift. Actually I quite like it. A thin little piece of spectra that I hardly notice. It is permenantly setup to bottom out when the main is released and has plenty of play while sailing. I only really adjust it to take up the boom a bit to depower the main while we are at the mooring.

Why the ring? Why not just tie off to the reef clew?
I think I'd miss the 2:1 (less a bunch of friction) advantage of having the reef line pass through the clew to a fixed point. That main is the same size as mine, I'm a fairly strong guy, and even on a 2:1 it's a chore

That is an interesting idea. The only thing about the ring, which I used because it happened to be in the top of my rigging box, is that it lays the sail nicely onto the boom. But... the heavy ring I have flails like crazy into the wind. I may try a simple bowline instead.

Losing the two part purchase is a good point. However, I didn't notice that much difference. It seem that there is a fair bit of friction wrapping that clew line under the boom and over the bunched up sail. The working end of my reefing line is lead through a horn cleat and it is pretty easy to just grab a section of reefing line along the boom pull out with my left hand and tail with my right until taught. In the end it seem like I was able to get better outhaul tension without the friction of the two part system. It also isn't that big of a deal to just take in the topping lift and bring the boom up to the clew. It is, and always will be, a two part system.

Why the snapshackle instead of a reef hook at the tack pin? That lashing looks stout, but the pigtail at the end leaves too much "play" for my taste. When trying to flatten a reefed sail with halyard and reef line, I wouldn't want any wiggle room at the one fixed point left.

The snap shackle idea came from Brion Toss's website and the reef strop from Kristian. The idea is that the shackle quickly captures the tack ring and you don't have to worry about it coming off the reef hook when you go back to the halyard to hoist the main. And releasing is slick. I really like how it works. The reefing strop came about because I struggled, okay failed, to find a cost effective reef tack fitting that didn't interfere with the mast during dead down wind sailing. I like the simplicity and the direction of pull.

The current strop around the mast is completely "proof of concept". It was a piece of line from my old downhaul, and is not that well done. Eventually it will be a much shorter piece of spectra that completely wraps around the new fixed gooseneck. Something like this (courtesy of Kristian).



Even so, the current piece of sta-set is rock solid and seems to allow me to get great halyard tension and as much tension in the foot as I can crank.

All good fun, and I really appreciate you input. Even though it seems a bit sacrilegious to reef a Shields sail plan it sure makes a difference. So I will work this system until I can reef and shake it out in a minute or so.

Cheers and Thanks, Bill

[Peter]

Bill,
I like the clew arrangement you're experimenting with. I reef often, with a nice new heavy duty Dacron main, and have been worried about sawing through the sailcloth when tensioning the clew. Going to give your method a try!

[Bluenose]

Bill,
I like the clew arrangement you're experimenting with. I reef often, with a nice new heavy duty Dacron main, and have been worried about sawing through the sailcloth when tensioning the clew. Going to give your method a try!

Please keep me posted on your efforts. I am won't be near the boat today, but I am going to fiddle a bit more tomorrow.

Cheers, Bill

[Chris Campbell]

I never liked the look of the back of the sail when reefed, bunched up under the reefing line - but it didn't seem to affect it in the long run. As Tim said, the sail will soften over time anyway. That said, I can definitely relate to your angst - a beautiful, crisp sail being twisted and scrunched just doesn't seem right!

[Robert The Gray]

is this just me? but......

I think you are asking the clew grommet and sail cloth to take a force it was not designed for. The grommet works with the clew patches in line with the plane of the sail. the sail cloth around the edge of the grommet should have as little lateral pull as possible. As you are set up now, on starboard tack the grommet will be have a strong lateral force pulling the grommet out. Again, the only strength that grommet has is in line with the plane of the sail, that can only be properly gained by having the forces relatively equal on each side of the grommet. On starboard tack, the top port edge of the grommet would pulling sideways on about a 1/4" of fabric. If this was an awning then no problem, but if that grommet blows in big winds then get ready for the second reef. On port tack the force would still be twisting the grommet out. The transition point in a system of force between differing materials is a key place for failure. The strength properties are very different between metal and cloth. Cloth is strongest in the plane of the cloth.

the main sheet and vang create the downward force on the leech of the sail. as long as your foot is tight and the luff is tight do not worry how close the sail is to the boom. in the open ocean classes those guys sail with plastic panel (?) sails and reef all the time. I have seen big gaps between the boom and the clew to allow for the stiff sails and battens. They do use a lashing from the clew grommet to the boom, but they have like 5 guys. I like a clean reef and long lasting sails as much as the next guy, but I believe that one sided pull on the grommet will pull it out in time.

r

[Bluenose]

Thanks Robert for more good insight and advice. I realize that it may seem like keeping the sailing from being creased is the main reason for jumping through these hoops, but it was only one of many reasons. With my first setup, which is pretty conventional the friction caused by the bunching of the sail seemed to restrict the pull aft and It was difficult to get good tension in the foot. The Shields goes though great effort to get a 6 part outhaul purchase in the boom for when things get blustery so I was frustrated that after reefing I had a fuller sail shape. In addition, this bunching of sail cloth happens, of course, at my mainsheet blocks on the boom. So I have just been playing around to see if anything could change for the better. I fully know that my sail will wear and become soft, but if it is easy to prolong its life without other problems, I say why not.

All that said, my first attempt was lacking in many respects. I did miss the two part system of the original and the brass ring at the clew reef grommet flailed itself silly in any wind at all.

So today I went out and tried correct these shortcoming by incorporating some of Figment's ideas. I lashed a little piece of spectra to the 1st reef grommet with a bowline leaving a loop to run the reef line through. This is a quick and dirty mockup. If this works I will spice to the grommet and spice a thimble for the reef line to run through. Then I just ran my reef line through this loop.

So here is the mast end (no real change here)



And the boom end



And a picture from the back side



For me this is more than just how the sail lays down on the port side of the boom, I really like the lead from the reef grommet to the turn block. In addition, I think this method would ease your concerns about the direction of pull on the grommet.

Anyway still thinking and tinkering, but I may take this version out for a sail.

Cheers, Bill

[Hirilondë]

Hmmm, I think you're getting somewhere Bill. You regained your 2 : 1 purchase. I never thought about Robert's concern for loads on the grommet, but I think he is right, and you have already addressed it any way. The twisting force based on how little the line angle seems off center in the picture seems like it would be minimal, and you have neatened up your formerly bunched sail. And you haven't drilled any new holes in anything so if it doesn't work out you did no damage in the process. The real test will be trying to take in the reef on a blustery day when you really need it and seeing if you can perform the task and create a good sail shape.

[Bluenose]

You won't hurt your sail with the reef lines in the original configuration, but if you're not comfortable with it that's OK too. Your sail will soften with age and use anyway.

Can you get enough tension on the second version to pull the leech and foot really tight? Not just on a calm day on the mooring, but in the wind strengths at which you'll be reefing? That's the greatest benefit of the first configuration--it allows the sail to be flattened nicely when you tuck in the reef.

But if you get it adequately tensioned in appropriate wind strengths using the ring, there's no reason not to try that approach. The twisting effect may or may not be a problem, but in general it's better to balance the loads, or lead the line to the end of the boom. Without a reefing winch, getting that reefed leech and foot tight in 20 knots of wind is going to be a bear either way, but particularly in your modified configuration where you no longer even have the minimal 2:1 advantage.

I don't think there are any strong reasons to NOT try your approach and see how it goes, but I am not sure it's going to end up being stellar either.

Tim,

Sorry, somehow I missed your post. Thanks for your thoughts, as always I welcome your input. I am now back to a 2:1 advantage but I have a question. What is it that gets more difficult in reefing as the wind picks up? Is it getting the foot tension? Or raising the boom?

In my old Bluenose she was small enough that I reefed sailing on a reach letting the main out until there was a fair bubble which would raise the boom a bit. This also helped self steering when I was along. Then I dropped the main the appropriate amount and pulled in the reefing line to cinch up the clew. It didn't seem too difficult when the wind was at reefing strength. But the sails were always somewhat full.

I still hope to do the same thing with Bolero. Time will tell. In any event, it seems quite easy to raise the boom with the topping lift which I think should make reefing a bit easier as well. Is it the larger size of Bolero that is going to add difficulty?

In any event I will try to put my makeshift system though some drills this week (O the chore of it all) and I will report back.

Thanks, Bill

I hope you had a happy splashing day.

[Oscar]

In any event, it seems quite easy to raise the boom with the topping lift which I think should make reefing a bit easier as well.

Oh yes. Taking the tension off the sail is crucial to getting the shape you want, at least in a bigger boat. LKIII's boom was close to 100 pounds and it dragging down made the single line reef a bear, and that on a winch. First thing I did was raise the boom 10 or so degrees, then do 90 percent of the reef free hand, a few turns of the winch to finish it off. Then lower the boom. Be careful not to tie up the reef ties between the clew and tack too tight before you lower the boom. They are not designed to handle stress, just to keep the unused portion of the sail from flapping around. Lower the boom first and see how it all settles down.

[Bluenose]

..........I never thought about Robert's concern for loads on the grommet, but I think he is right, and you have already addressed it any way..........

Isn't hooking to one ring on a pair of rings sewn to a webbed strap a pretty common practice for the reef tack? Would the same concerns over the grommet integrity exist there?

Bill

[Chris Campbell]

This may turn into a bit of a ramble - hopefully I won't offend or bore you too much.

The purpose of reefing is to reduce the power that the sail generates so that you can stand up to heavier air. This can be accomplished in more than one way - first, by flattening the sail out, second, by reducing the size of the sail.

Flattening the sail is accomplished by pulling harder on the controls - hoist the halyard higher or pull on lots of cunningham moves the draft forward and takes cloth out of the sail, flattening it. Pull on the outhaul flattens the draft. Putting on more boom vang closes the leech and flattens the sail. And your Shields has one even better flattener in her bag of tricks - backstay tension. With a fractional rig and a bendy mast you can put a lot of bend in the mast, pulling cloth out of the sail and flattening it dramatically. Its really amazing how much you can depower a bendy fractional rig with backstay tension.

The reason I thought to go on this ramble is that I noticed you were talking about holding your boom up with the topping lift, and I wondered if you meant to keep the topping lift on even after you were done reefing. The topping lift is absolutely a necessity for getting the reef taken in (unless you have a gallows or a desire to have the boom crashing about on deck), but once you've got the reef in, you need to flatten your newly shrunk sail in the same way that you were flattening it before you reefed - by pulling out the corners. So when you put on the boom vang and flatten the sail you'll be working against your topping lift, and accomplishing nothing. Of course that's based on my assumption that you meant to keep it tensioned while sailing with the reef in. If that isn't your intention, this still raises a good point about the strategy you're using to tension the new clew - by not having a line running down to the boom to hold it to the boom, you need considerably more outhaul tension to stop the vang and mainsheet from dragging the boom down away from the sail. That's fine if you have a way to put that tension on - can you still benefit from your 6-to-1 outhaul, somehow? If not, perhaps a small winch on the boom would serve. The main thing is that you're able to flatten the sail just as well with the reef in as you are with the full sail up, one way or another.

Not sure if that added anything to the discussion or not, but there it is.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris Campbell]

Isn't hooking to one ring on a pair of rings sewn to a webbed strap a pretty common practice for the reef tack? Would the same concerns over the grommet integrity exist there?

Not sure, I always hooked onto both rings with a hook attached to the gooseneck by a ring and a shackle.

[Robert The Gray]

The forces on the tack are different than on the clew. The clew is at the bottom of the leech which generates a lot of sideways force. This sideways force against the resistance of the keel is part of what makes you go forward. Being as it is at the upwind corner of two spars, the tack is subject to little lateral force. Regardless, If you were to pull sideways on the ring with the strap it would pull the threads out, that is what is happening to the grommet in the previous picture, a load lateral to the intended direction. It is of course a matter of degree, somethings can be absolutely fair, others must be made the best possible. A reef is always a compromise from replacing the sail like the windsurfers do. I think a good reef is like a good anchor, it will save the vessel in a pinch if sound, and can cause a sinking if it fails.

[Bluenose]

This may turn into a bit of a ramble - hopefully I won't offend or bore you too much.

Chris,

Thanks for the ramble. Lots of good information and not boring or offensive. I love to sail but at the same time I have a lot to learn so I am very grateful when others share their knowledge and experience.

I am using all of the flattening methods as my first "half" reef. Although I am still figuring out the limits of mast bend. In addition I am playing the traveler, which really helps. And continuing off topic, I noticed last week that I have not yet buried the rail on Bolero. Not that that is so important per say, it is just that I am not yet comfortable with power and size of this new boat. But that changed a bit on Sunday. Laura and I came screaming into the bay (the wind always picks up inside the bay) at 6 kts close hauled heeled way over. No water on the pretty teak toe rails, but some rare footprints on Tim's varnished cockpit seats.

About the topping lift. I sail with it completely released. Except, that is when I forget. I am still getting used to having all these toys but my routine is getting better.

My topping lift setup is mostly a 1/8 inch spectra line with a simple 2 part purchase of sta-set for the control line at the bottom three feet or so. If I completely let it go and release the main halyard the topping lift bottoms out on its own. Currently I use the topping lift to depower the main while casting off the mooring. It takes very little angle from the wind and the Shields will start sailing on her own (my old Bluenose was the same).

By raising the boom a small amount the mainsail luffs and Bolero stays pointed into the wind for the minute or two I need to raise the jib and cast off.

As I mentioned before, I am very happy with the performance with one reef tucked in. Pretty wimpy to have a reef on a Shields but with one reef the SA/D ratio is still 18. I will have to keep looking at photos of "real" Shields sailing and keep going out in the heavy stuff.



Cheers, Bill

[Hirilondë]

..........I never thought about Robert's concern for loads on the grommet, but I think he is right, and you have already addressed it any way..........

Isn't hooking to one ring on a pair of rings sewn to a webbed strap a pretty common practice for the reef tack? Would the same concerns over the grommet integrity exist there?

Bill

Hmmm, with this question and some other comments I am starting to question whether we are talking about the same corner of the sail. I was referring to the clew and the fact that you abandoned the ring and went with the tie in the grommet. I think it was a good move in regards to how the grommet is loaded'

As I mentioned before, I am very happy with the performance with one reef tucked in. Pretty wimpy to have a reef on a Shields but with one reef the SA/D ratio is still 18. I will have to keep looking at photos of "real" Shields sailing and keep going out in the heavy stuff.

If I were to make a generality about boats racing I would say most sailors reef later than they should. Getting dumped on your keester isn't fast. Neither is rounding up or flogging your main. Racing, when you are off the wind and down wind you want the full main in almost any breeze and to weather it is sometimes faster reefed. The problem is getting the reef in without losing ground. When I raced Ensigns I would often start heavy air races reefed, then dump it after the weather mark. Then unless it was seriously knocking me down I would not reef on the next weather leg. If I knew it was going to make a serious difference I would reef it near the end of the down wind leg. But this doesn't work on all but the smaller boats as the main is just too large to reef when it is full. When I cruise and day sail I start the day reefed when the wind is up. It is easy to dump the reef if I decide I didn't need it. I don't consider myself a wimp, but abusing my main by flogging it to stay upright on the puffs isn't my idea of fun.

[kabauze]

Interesting experiments and I love following along as you iterate through the designs, gradually improving the reefing system.

So today I went out and tried correct these shortcoming by incorporating some of Figment's ideas. I lashed a little piece of spectra to the 1st reef grommet with a bowline leaving a loop to run the reef line through. This is a quick and dirty mockup. If this works I will spice to the grommet and spice a thimble for the reef line to run through. Then I just ran my reef line through this loop.

One thing that leapt out at me here is the Spectra-on-polyester rub point. Line on line connections like this are notorious for chafing through in a hurry when under tension. Nylon rope (which is not usually used on sailboats) is a particularly bad offender in this regard. A friend and I sawed through a piece of 7/16" nylon rope in about 30 seconds using another piece of rope as the 'saw'. We stood facing each other and pulled away to generate tension. We are not human oxen so the tension was not particularly high :)

I don't have direct experience with Spectra-on-polyester but personally I would put a ring or small shackle between the two lines to eliminate chafe.

[Bluenose]

Interesting experiments and I love following along as you iterate through the designs, gradually improving the reefing system.

One thing that leapt out at me here is the Spectra-on-polyester rub point. Line on line connections like this are notorious for chafing through in a hurry when under tension. Nylon rope (which is not usually used on sailboats) is a particularly bad offender in this regard. A friend and I sawed through a piece of 7/16" nylon rope in about 30 seconds using another piece of rope as the 'saw'. We stood facing each other and pulled away to generate tension. We are not human oxen so the tension was not particularly high :)

I don't have direct experience with Spectra-on-polyester but personally I would put a ring or small shackle between the two lines to eliminate chafe.

No worries about that. Those pictures were just my quick and dirty mockup. I meant to take a thimble along with me but forgot. Hopefully today I can redo the clew lashing into something more respectable.

[Peter]

One more reefing idea I'll try is this.
Anything to make things simple :-)

[Bluenose]

One more reefing idea I'll try is this.
Anything to make things simple :-)

Peter,

Huh! That is pretty interesting. I have thought about finding a way to combine the first and second reef lines for just that reason but never quite came up with anything. I would be curious to hear how you like it when you have a go. It does look like you have to take in the second reef from the port side of the boom.

I wonder if there is a way to add that system to the one I am playing with. I will have to give that some though.

I do like the fact that you don't have to adjust the second reef line everytime you take in or shake out the first reef.

Thanks for passing that along.

Bill

[Chris Campbell]

Roger's Reefing Refinement is indeed a beaut! While it's possible to remove the slack in the second reef line after taking in the first reef, not having to think about it is elegant and slick. Now - will it work with three reefs? On the surface maybe yes, maybe no. That'll give me something to think about while driving to and fro the office today.

Thanks!

[Hirilondë]

Now - will it work with three reefs?

Hmmm, it would sure be complicated. If all 3 lines joined together after their perspective cheek blocks there wouldn't be enough room on the boom to pull them all in. Any other configuration would require splices to go through blocks. It gives me a head ache just trying to imagine it :>)

I have 2 separate reefs, still not sure why people find taking in the second reef and straightening the lines out is so tedious. It is an interesting idea, not sure I would find it worth the effort. And if the splice and tension in the lines when locating it were not perfect there could be issues with sail shape. If the 2nd reef lines were too taught when the 1st reef were in place it would destroy sail shape. And if it were too slack it would defeat the whole purpose. If the splice made it to or past the cleats by the time the first reef is taken in you would still have 2 lines to cleat. For those of you who know of my never ending priority list of boat things to do, you will understand that this one may never make it to the top.

[Figment]

aw, maaaaaan. I just made it a whole 6 months without splicing anything!

[Bluenose]

I finally managed to get out and play with my reefing and take some photos. So far, I have to say it works pretty well.







I do have a twist in my reefing line that I need to clear, but that will be easy. I went out solo today and was very pleasantly surprised with just how easy it was to tie in a reef and shake it out by myself. The old Bluenose wouldn't hold still very long.

[Tim]

Must be nice having a boat that balances under sail in normal conditions.

[Bluenose]

Must be nice having a boat that balances under sail in normal conditions.

I admit that it is. I think she would have sailed this way for an extended period of time. My first thought was that if I go over the side, she ain't coming back for me.

What was also really, really nice is that she sails along nicely with a bubble in her main while I am trying to reef without heading up and falling off. I find this comfortable since the heel angle remains consistent and makes it easy to work at the mast.

[bcooke]

Must be nice having a boat that balances under sail in normal conditions.

It is :-P

(note: no hands- My pictures from the bow are non-digital but I will be sure to scan them when I get some time)

My first thought was that if I go over the side, she ain't coming back for me.

I had the same scary thought one day. Note: the red tether in the photo.

[Oscar]

Tethers good. Mandatory solo when leaving the cockpit on big boat, or cabin on small boat in any kind of conditions that would warrant them. With crew at night or when it pipes up. Same with the inflatable vest. It's like reefing: When you think about it, do it.

[Bluenose]

I pondered last years reefing system over the winter and made a few changes.

The first thing that I did was to replace the short piece of Sprectra line with Harken 29mm ti-lite blocks.

(There is a lot of rough mockups going on in these photos so please forgive the general rattiness of everything)



I really like these blocks in general and they look like there are going to work great here. Not only do they maintain the desirable 2:1 advantage they are much lower friction than my old system or the traditional method of running the reef line through the clew grommet. In addition, I like the way the lines leads from these blocks to the cheek blocks.

But the change I really wanted to figure out was a way to add the second reef line using some form of the Roger's reefing system mentioned previously. I quite like the idea of not having to take in and let out the second reef line every time I tucked in or shake out the first reef. But I didn't want to run any lines down the port side of the boom as was described in the Roger's system.

Turns out I don't think I have to. All I did was attached the second reef line to the first reef line just forward of the cheek block.

Then I remove the individual fair leads and made larger ones, temporarily out of vacuum hose, to accommodate the joined reef lines.



Then when I tuck in the first reef the second reef lines is carried forward just aft of the first reef line cleat.



Then when I want to tuck in the second reef, I take in the topping lift, drop the halyard, attach the tack ring and take the second reef line to its cleat and tension the clew. Re-tension the halyard and I am set.





I still need to add the reef tie lines for the second reef. But here is how the second reef is looking.







Pending Issues

I am not yet happy with the locations of the sliding cheek blocs for each reef. Ideally it looks like the second reef would like to happen at the exact location of the Shields mainsheet bails. In these photos I tried moving both cheek blocks aft of the mainsheet bails and they seem to far aft to me.

I need to sew a proper web for the tack ring at the second reef point.

In the end this may or may not work to fruition and may just be the effect of long winters on the idle mind.

Cheers, Bill

[Maine Sail]

The aft reef line ideally should do two things.

1- Act as an outhaul.

2- Hold the leech reef cringle close to the boom so you can efficiently shape your sail.

You can do all this with one line if you run it through the leech reef cringle from the aft block then nearly straight down down to a spot just very slightly aft of this cringle, in its reefed position on the boom.

I have taken the liberty of using MS Paint on your pic. The red arrow shows the gap between the boom and clew which is allowing for poor leech control and leaving you with very little options for sail shaping or flattening.

By following the red line it runs from the block through the clew down the port side of the sail to a location on the boom about two to three inches aft of the clew at full outhaul. It can even wrap under the boom and tie into the Schaeffer blocks on the tracks. They have tie loops on the at end of them. Or oyu can use an adjustable tie point that can slide along the track for the best adjustment of down haul & outhaul. Doing this will allow one line to act as both an outhaul and a tie down for the leech cringle just as the outhaul car or boom/sail slugs do.



Ignore the fact that the reef line is internal to the boom on this boat and try and picture the sail reefed. The part where it feeds into the boom will be acting as an outhaul and the part directly under the reef cringle will hold the leech tight to the boom. One line acting in both capacities.


Personally I don't utilize the mid sail cringles that tie the sail around the boom. I find they always interfere with reefed sail shaping. I generally only use the luff and leech cringles for reefing and just tuck the excess sail into itself. If it is real sloppy out and blowing stink I may stick a small line through the middle one to just keep the sail where I want it but only after I have achieved the shape I am looking for.

[Hirilondë]

Personally I don't utilize the mid sail cringles that tie the sail around the boom. I find they always interfere with reefed sail shaping. I generally only use the luff and leech cringles for reefing and just tuck the excess sail into itself. If it is real sloppy out and blowing stink I may stick a small line through the middle one to just keep the sail where I want it but only after I have achieved the shape I am looking for.

That is pretty much my methodology as well. Sail shape is the main consideration as well as ease in reefing. No matter what you do it will never look as pretty as you might like. I gave up on pretty long ago. It's like the jerrycan lashed to the lifelines, or the dinghy outboard on the push pit, there are times when comfort is what is important.

[Figment]

I rarely use the reef cringles, and never EVER tie them around the boom, only to gather the reefed sail to itself.

The only time I ever bother with them is when sailing in heavy rain or spray. That pocket of sailcloth can hold a LOT of water weight in a really unhelpful place.

[Rachel]

I would like to ask a nautical vocab question:

I thought cringles were reinforced holes, such as you would have at the tack*, and that the short lines used to gather the bunt when you reef were called "nettles."

That said, I grew up a small lake, rowing ;)

R.
*Well, I guess you would have them in the sail where the reefing lines go through as well then.