Repainting glossy rough surfaces - getting stick

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:09 am

I'm repainting my interior. Alberg 30, no liner.

Most areas are easy enough (relatively) to sand & prepare, but I've got some very rough fiberglass on the inside of the hull that's got that glossy old paint on there. It's way to rough to sand. I'm going to get a few 3m scotchbrite type pads to try and scuff it up some. My local hardware store has some super-sized pads used for floor finishing that might fit in a half-sheet sander.

Any primers out there that have excellent "stick ability"? My ability to scuff in much of a tooth to guarantee mechanical adhesion is questionable here. The rough fiberglass will show inside cupboards, and in the V berth the sides are wood horizontal slats, and the hull shows in the gaps between.

_jeff

LazyGuy · Post by **LazyGuy** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:34 am

What about TSP (trisodium phosphate) Protect yourself with an old pair of foulies, mask and rubber gloves. Use a sponge to wipe it down, wait 30 seconds and wipe it off. Should be enough to get paint adhesion.

Post by **Tim** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:35 am

Paints are really all about mechanical adhesion. Repainting over gloss is always suspect and tends to lead to failure of the coating.

Scuff it up somehow. I've not yet found an inside-of-boat that can't be sanded sufficiently for paint application, but if yours is really tough try one of those flap wheels that fit in your drill, or a similar-type product. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:36 am

Awlgrip 545 two-part epoxy primer. My favorite thing about this stuff, aside from its tenacious adherence to almost anything, is the 24 hour hot recoat window. Wear a respirator when using it, especially in enclosed spaces.

I painted all my interior fiberglass with Awlgard water borne LPU. It requires no primer. Still need to wear a respirator, but you don't need supplied air like solvent based LPUs as there are no isocyanates. I rolled and tipped.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:42 am

Does TSP actually soften a finish? I thought it was just a strong cleaner to remove surface contamination.

The flap wheel might work. Wire brush even. I'm sick of sanding.

What I'm really looking for is a wonderful primer that sticks to anything. Perhaps primer with a little methylene chloride mixed in to soften the underlying paint.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:42 am

Is the roughness you're referring to the result of the woven roving used to construct the boat? (Woven roving looks something like burlap that's made with really big individual "strands.")

If so, then I bet lots of people here have prepped a similar surface and can give more specific advice tailored to that surface.

Rachel

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:46 am

Thanks Dave. I've got some epoxy primer from System Three here. I've got an email in to System Three to ask how well it sticks to an enamel surface & I'll test in a small spot to see for myself. The System Three Epoxy primer is water based though, and can't see a low solvent coating sticking well. I don't really understand the chemistry with this stuff.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:51 am

Rachel,

Perhaps woven roving. I just googled images of woven roving and what i've got looks like super fat roving. Big strands, as if the fabric was woven from big chords of fiberglass. The craters are pretty deep between the fibers.

Post by **Tim** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:00 am

Don't use any methylene chloride on your fiberglass. It will react with and soften it. You could try a "safe" stripper, but safe strippers are safe because they don't react with anything, including paint. (I know, I know, many of them work OK in the end. But none work like the "real" stuff.)

You don't have to get every bit of paint out from between the woven roving strands, which is surely what your A30 is built with. That's the first mistake people make. Attempts to grind that smooth only remove many of the strands, and are counter productive and unnecessary.

Thorough sanding with coarse paper removes 75% of the old coating, other than in the deepest hollows, and tend to scuff up the hollows sufficiently. This is all I ever do. The flap wheel thingies might help there, but you only have to go so far.

Attempts to shortcut substrate preparation tends to lead to more work and coating failure later. Do the initial parts right, and your hard work won't go to waste. Good luck.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:13 am

Thanks for the tip on the methylene chloride softening fiberglass. I was unaware.

I was only kidding about adding it to primer, however after about 4 hours of holding a sander over my head yesterday the thought of that big beautiful can of Super Stip in the barn entered my mind more than once.

-jeff

Summersdawn · Post by **Summersdawn** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:44 am

preserved_killick wrote:The flap wheel might work. Wire brush even. I'm sick of sanding.

If you are going to use a wire brush anywhere on your boat, make sure is is a stainless/brass/bronze wire brush. Don't use a regular steel wire brush, as little specs of steel will come off when you are brushing. They will stick everywhere, you won't be able to clean them all, and they will rust, leaving little red dots all over your boat.

I have used a stainless wire brush for roughing up rough surface before. It works OK, but you sill need to sand.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:58 am

Norton makes a wire wheel, with a plastic hub and steel fingers around the outside, that the Gougeons have tested and say gives a good tooth for epoxy work. It should work well for glossy surfaces also.

Probably have a write up in one of their Epoxy Works mags online.

You chuck it up in a drill motor. When the fingers begin to lean aft, you can take the shaft out and turn it over to make it spin the other way too.

I used one inside Tehani, with the roving she has- and the awful red paint the PO had applied here and there- worked well.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:09 pm

I can vouch for the "awfulness" of the red paint that was on Tehani. Ugh! And whoever applied it had put it everywhere. If something got all that off it must work pretty well on woven roving.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:51 pm

lol- Of course, the "something" that got most of that red off was called Laura

Maybe I should post a pic of what we started with huh?

Here-

And here's today

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:02 pm

Charlie,

Wow. Thats a lot of hard work right there! Beautiful.

Zach

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:33 pm

Ah, I never get tired of looking at those photos. (And Tehani looks even better in person, if that's possible, and is a lovely sailor.)

And yes, the wheel you spoke of would work much easier if Laura came with it :)

I bet you'll never paint any lockers red.

Rachel

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:05 pm

Charlie!

Your pictures are inspirational! I'm sitting beat after another day sanding and this makes me feel better. What a mess & what a result.

I was thinking today, with the drone of the sander, that a boat is like a very little house. And remodeling a boat is like remodeling that little house complete with the difficulties of a bathroom, a kitchen, living room and bedroom all wrapped up together. And, just to make it worse, nothing is plumb, level or even straight.

-Jeff

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:24 pm

Thanks, but I must give credit here- ALL that interior paint was done by Laura, all the wood trim was varnished and installed by Laura, all the cushions were sewn by Laura AND the electrical panel you see in the third picture was built by her two days before we launched.

She also did all the repair work to the outside of the hull AND got rid of lord only knows how many layers of bottom paint.

She's quite accomplished in the woodshop and in most anything else she tackles, in addition to being an outstanding artist.

During the time we were restoring Tehani, I was completing a 22 footer for a customer. That was before I moved my shop to the house so I was commuting almost 80 miles each day.

Here's a taste of her painting work. This is in pastels, but she also works in acrylics.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:55 am

Tim wrote:Don't use any methylene chloride on your fiberglass. It will react with and soften it. You could try a "safe" stripper, but safe strippers are safe because they don't react with anything, including paint. (I know, I know, many of them work OK in the end. But none work like the "real" stuff.)

If you really want to use a paint stripper, I have to recommend Soy Strip one more time. You need to put enough on and cover it with saran wrap and let it sit for a few hours, but if its paint, it will remove it. And it is safe on FG with no fumes.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:48 am

One note on the Franmar Soy Strip: It is not safe for using if you have a barrier coat underneath your bottom paint (unless, of course, you're not trying to save the barrier coat). I called and asked them.

I do want to add that their customer service was great, in that I called and the person I spoke with wasn't sure, but rather than give me the all-too-common "Well, I'd have to ask" (said as if that's the last thing they intend to do unless you force them), she DID immediately offer to check with the tech department and get back to me (they were out that day).

She called back the next day and let me know the answer, which was that neither the Soy Strip nor their other product (Gel Strip?) were safe for use on barrier-coated boats.

I realize this thread is talking about the interior of the boat, but I just wanted to add this in case someone is searching Franmar Soy Strip.

Rachel

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:40 am

Charlie,

Is Laura your wife?

If so, how solid is your relationship?! Think she'd like to move up north?!! I'm not much for boat stuff, but I'm an OK cook!

-Jeff

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:03 am

ROFL- yep- my wife of 16 years. She is 22 years younger than I am though.

About her moving up north? She HATES cold weather. Even here on the Texas coast she thinks we should have moved further south- hey- it gets into the low 40s here wintertimes-grin

And since she's now working 4 tens each week, I do ALL the cooking, so that's no incentive.

She took the job to pay off the last of our debts early, so we could go cruising. Should be ready to go by next spring.

Couple of pics- sailing our previous boat- tacking her over-

And manning the helm , sailing over in Mississippi Sound on one of our cruises to Florida and back-

Note- Rachel is gonna jump on me for that word "manning" BIG grin

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:33 pm

CharlieJ wrote:Norton makes a wire wheel, with a plastic hub and steel fingers around the outside, that the Gougeons have tested and say gives a good tooth for epoxy work. It should work well for glossy surfaces also.

Probably have a write up in one of their Epoxy Works mags online.

You chuck it up in a drill motor. When the fingers begin to lean aft, you can take the shaft out and turn it over to make it spin the other way too.

I used one inside Tehani, with the roving she has- and the awful red paint the PO had applied here and there- worked well.

Second.
Absolutely the right tool for the job when roving is involved.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:45 pm

CharlieJ wrote:Note- Rachel is gonna jump on me for that word "manning" BIG grin

Moi? Hee hee.

Also funny is the idea that Laura would want to go anywhere (besides cruising) when she's got what she's got there in Texas with you. Not that you can fault Jeff for trying :D

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:04 am

CharlieJ wrote:Norton makes a wire wheel, with a plastic hub and steel fingers around the outside, that the Gougeons have tested and say gives a good tooth for epoxy work. It should work well for glossy surfaces also.

Probably have a write up in one of their Epoxy Works mags online.

I'm thinking of buying one of these wheels for sanding woven roving, so I looked for it on the web. I had a bit of a task finding it (wasn't sure what to search and Norton's site is impossible), so when I did I thought I'd add the info to the thread here.

It's called a Norton "Rapid Strip Wire Brush" (of course I was searching "wheel" and etc.). I haven't been able to figure out whether any local, brick-and-mortar-type places carry them, but Jamestown Distributors does have them in their catalog:

http://tinyurl.com/68wzdv

And here's a link to the Epoxyworks article:

http://westsystem.com/ewmag/21/better_way.html

Here's what it looks like:

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:23 pm

I just bought one of these. After searching high and low I found that Home Depot carries them for ~$19. Other places I contacted or looked at that did not carry them were Lowe's, a Do-it-Center, a very well stocked local hardware store, and West Marine.

I was searching for this thread to ask a question about it, now that I have it, and found that there was already a thread devoted just to this item. So I'll continue there. If anyone's looking, it's here:

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... apid+strip