Stern Anchor Locker

[Triton106]

Hi All,

I have been thinking of creating a stern anchor locker on my Triton106 by adding a bulkhead for the lazarette area (essentially walling off that area for anchor rode). The reason it is necessary is that the chain and rode tend to fall into the bottom or bilge area on my Triton and tangle up with other "stuff" in the cockpit locker (west coast models don't have a bulkhead). Furthermore I can also use that area for propane storage (of course with properly designed propane box). I am interested in your views of the pros and cons of doing that. Additionally, if I were to install the bulkhead is there any risk of hard spot if I don't use polyurethane foam strip to create a cushion? If so where can one buy those green/yellowish foam strips?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[bcooke]

I am speaking as an owner of an east coast boat so your experience might be different.

My boat is pretty sensitive to weight in the cockpit. It doesn't take much weight before seawater starts coming up the cockpit scuppers. A light anchor with limited chain might be okay but not much more in my case at least.

As for a propane locker, I would love to put one there but after exploring the idea I found there was less room in the stern area than I thought. A typical tank would stick up quite a bit higher than the deck height. A horizontal tank might work but you still need to be extremely careful to provide a fume free barrier from the rest of the boat.

Finally, again in my case, the hull thickness is pretty heavy there, say 3/4 inch, so creating a hard spot would not be an issue for me.

Hope that helps.

-Britton

[Tim]

By all means install a bulkhead to contain your anchor rode and other gear, as necessary. Other than poor access, it'd be a straightforward job. You're not likely to have any issues if you don't use the foam strips.

I think you'll find, as Britton said, that it's extremely difficult to fit a propane tank of any size in the Triton lazarette area. It's been done with small tanks in at least a couple cases that I know of, but even with the small tanks the folks who built these lockers ended up with lockers that extended a fair bit above the deck level and not really that satisfactory in the end. I also originally considered installing a propane locker here, and ended up with a tank on deck instead. In hindsight, I am grateful to have the lazarette available for other things, particularly trash storage when cruising.

When you factor in everything, including the difficulty in fitting the tank, the challenge of making the locker safe, vapor tight, properly vented and drained, and so forth--not only to start but also on an ongoing basis--it makes a lot more sense to put the tank on deck where none of these worries apply, particularly since a belowdecks tank installation hardly even works on a Triton.

One thing about Tritons if you're really going cruising is that you just can't fit all the cruising gear in hidden areas, much as we'd all like to.

[Triton106]

I can't believe my original post is dated 2007 and I still don't have a stern anchor locker!

With my proper propane stove project finally underway my thoughts are once again turned to the installation of propane tank storage. So far, I have seen three locations that I believe are logical and safe for a Triton (or similar size and design boats): (1) in a vapor proof lazarette locker (as Ray Alsup did on Pegasus - Ray removed his website unfortunately so I don't have a picture), (2) on deck forward of the two front facing ports (as Tim did on Glissando), and (3) along the stern pulpit rail as (Rob Squire did Head Over Hills).

Tim's Glissando -


Rob's Head Over Hills -


All three are outstanding installations and I would be happy with any of them. But I have some limitation on Blossom. Firstly, my dinghy is resting behind the mast on top of the cabin trunk so that takes away on deck installation. Secondly, I am already hanging my Evinrude outboard, an anchor, a horse shoe life preserver, and a small solar panel on the stern rail so that pretty much precludes the stern rail installtion. That leaves the lazarette installation by default.

My question is is does any one have a good resource for DIY propane tank storrage box? It's surprisingly difficult to find any good information by googling. I realize that the lazarette will most likely be too small for a reaonable size propane tank. But I am willing to comprise and allow the box to stick out the deck by a few inches. Thanks!

[Hirilondë]

Propane fumes are heavier than air. Therefore ABYC has several criteria to make a propane lockers safe.

1. Sealed off form the inside of the boat.
2. Vented in the bottom with the final opening in the vent at or below the bottom of the locker (important if using a vent hose)
3. Located such that fumes escaping through the opening or vent can not get down below (in the cockpit would not meet ABYC guide lines, though many argue that this is being too strict)

A lazarette can be a great choice provided you can justify allocating that space for that purpose. As well as it being my outboard well I use mine to store my gas tanks, lamp paraffin, stove alcohol and fuel additives. If you vent the whole lazarette there is no reason you could not add a divider or shield as needed for the propane tank (to protect it and the hook ups from damage) and use the rest of it to store other things. Just be sure to add holes to the divider so as not to restrict the egress of any fumes on either side through the vent.

[Tim]

Ray,

You might be interested in my own observations from earlier this year regarding the challenges in fitting even a small propane locker at the stern of a Triton. Even with a mockup of the smallest size locker I could build, to hold the smallest (ridiculously so) tank available, there were enough challenges that we, in this case, elected not to proceed with the LPG installation.

This is not to say it's impossible--it's not--but there are many factors you have to juggle to make it work safely, and which will inevitably require compromise of one thing or another. Depending on the tank size you're comfortable with, allowing the box to project above deck would help greatly. Beware, though: that locker is simply not that deep, particularly when one considers the need to keep the locker vent at the lowest point of the locker and also above the static waterline. These factors will limit the depth of any locker you might install.

Note that these issues, some of which were specific to my own situation and other installations on my boat (and therefore may not be factors for you) were also the reason I elected to use a deck-mounted cylinder on Glissando.

You may have more leeway in terms of locating your own locker, which can help alleviate some of the issues. You could also look at a horizontal tank in order to fit a larger tank in the depth available, but these horizontal tanks (as far as I've been able to determine) are only available in aluminum--read expensive. I'd certainly much rather use a commonly-available steel or composite tank unless no other option existed.

As you plan, however, note in particular the requirement to keep the LPG locker vent opening a minimum of 20" from any other hull opening (i.e. engine exhaust outlet, bilge pump outlet, any tank vents located in or near the transom, etc.). In the case I referenced above, this was one of the most significant stumbling blocks. Again, your boat will be different.

Note also that the LPG locker must contain only the tank, regulator, etc. and cannot be used for any other purpose (to meet the ABYC standard, at least).

Here's ABYC A-1 in entirety. (PDF File). Locker requirements are in ABYC A-1.8.

[Triton106]

Thanks Dave, Tim!

I forgot Circe rebuilding had at one point considered propane stove! I only remembered it ended up with an alcohol stove. The details of the dimensions and discussions are exactly what I am looking for. Looks like I have a lot to consider (what boat project doesn't?) Blossom does not have a backstay chainplate knee that sticks out like Circe. Instead it is fastened to a glassed in oak block with lagbolts. I am already planning to change that arrangement to fit the chainplate externally (only for the backstay) which could potentially open up the lazarette a little more. However, it seems that the space may still be tight. I was originally thinking building a box for two 10lb tanks and that seems like will be challenging. I will keep you posted.

[Rachel]

Looks like I have a lot to consider (what boat project doesn't?)

Darn that it's all connected! :D

[Chris Campbell]

Weatherbird didn't have a stern anchor locker (although there was a lazarette locker that could have been co-opted), but she did have a propane locker in the lazarette. She's obviously got a lot more space there, with an 8' overhang, but the point of this post is to notice the propane locker's construction: partly inside the lazarette and partly outside, to accomodate the height of the propane tanks (2x10lb, in this case) without having the bottom be too low in the boat for proper venting.



I don't know the Triton well enough to know if a similar trick might work, but I thought it was quite effective on Weatherbird (although more wood to take care of!)

[Triton106]

Thanks Chris. That's a beautifully executed propane locker. Is the outside portion the wooden box with the two cowl vents? Are the cowl vent portion of the box part of the vapor proof propane locker or part of the lazarette? Do you have any pictures of the inside construction?

If the space permits, I am thinking of constructing the box out of plywood and fiberglass overlay on the inside. I still have not found any definition of vapor proof. I assume if I seal the box with fiberglass and the vent and other hose connections with silicon that will proof the vapor. Is that too naive?

Secondly since the vent hose need to be 20 inches away from all thru hulls and needs to be above water in any angle of heel I may have to relocate the engine exhaust and bilge pump thruhulls so that I can place the propane locker drain at the center of the counter. Again, as Rachel said "Darn, it is all connected."

[Chris Campbell]

Yes, the outside portion is the box with two cowl vents - but the locker itself is just the centre of the box, under the lid (slightly larger below the deck, such that the neck of the tanks were in the above-deck portion and the larger bottoms of the tanks were below the level of the deck, if that makes sense). The cowl vents were ventilating the rest of the lazarette, and, since there was no sealed bulkhead separating the cabin from the cockpit locker area, also the rest of the interior of the boat.

I don't think I have any pictures inside the locker, but I'll take a look around just in case.

I don't know enough about vapour-proof to help you out there, but I can tell you that my locker (whether this was good enough or not I don't know) was just wood, sealed at the seams with some kind of caulking, as was the little through-hull at the bottom to attach the drain pipe to. I raised the bottom of the box with epoxy so that water didn't stay in it - as it was when I got the boat the through hull that drained the box was higher than the bottom of the box (it wasn't counter-sunk), so rain water would slosh around. A thick layer of epoxy made the drain be the lowest point.

I never had any problems, but in retrospect that could also be dumb luck!

[mitiempo]

Ray
Vapor proof could be considered as waterproof. I would glass the inside of the locker and attach the fitting for the drain as you would on deck to make it waterproof. Also if possible countersink the drain fitting so water doesn't sit in the locker bottom. I wouldn't use silicone but 3M 4200 or Sikaflex are good choices.

[Duncan]

...Secondly since the vent hose need to be 20 inches away from all thru hulls and needs to be above water in any angle of heel I may have to relocate the engine exhaust and bilge pump thruhulls...

That's starting to sound like quite an effort. Do you really cook that much, that this would make a worthwhile difference?

I usually only use my stove to make coffee and oatmeal in the morning, then I mostly barbecue at night.

If you treated youself to one of those little gimballed stoves that run on a small can of propane, could that be a satisfactory alternative?

I'm not being critical, as I am sure you'd be making an improvement to the boat either way. Just asking.

[earlylight]

The individual must decide what suits their personal needs as it relates to the intended use of the boat. If an occasional overnight is the primary use of the boat the galley needs may be much different than those of someone who does a lot of coastal cruising and lives aboard for several weeks or months at a time. My previous boat (30 ft LOA) had a rather spartan galley and since my primary use was weekend sailing (pre-retirement) most cooking was done on the Magma BBQ on the pushpit. Now that I am retired and often cruise for several weeks at a time aboard Early Light (34 ft LOA) I find a more complete galley to be quite desirable, especially when the weather gods decide to treat me to several consecutive days of rain. That is when I truly enjoy having the luxury of a stove and oven to prepare my meals. As the old saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."

[Triton106]

Sorry I have not responded to the recent postings as I was hoping to make some progress with the project first before responding. But I think I need to respond to the last two to clarify the purpose of this project as the questions are right on:

Duncan wrote -

That's starting to sound like quite an effort. Do you really cook that much, that this would make a worthwhile difference?
I usually only use my stove to make coffee and oatmeal in the morning, then I mostly barbecue at night.
If you treated youself to one of those little gimballed stoves that run on a small can of propane, could that be a satisfactory alternative?
I'm not being critical, as I am sure you'd be making an improvement to the boat either way. Just asking.

Excellent point. As a matter of fact in one of my earlier thread on cabin layout there were an lively discussion as to the appropriate stove for a small boat like the Tritons. It was in this thread I took Tim's suggestion of building a full function stove (i.e. stove, oven, gimballed, etc...) My ultimate goal is to go around the blue planet in my Triton. While this is still years away I am buying into the philosophy that a blue water cruiser needs to be properly fitted out for the purpose. I have gone through the debate between the various stove choices (propane vs. kerosene, gimbal vs. fixed, oven vs. no oven) and considered seriously James Baldwin's micro galley stove design (which I like a lot). Hope I will get to fully utilize the functions of the stove but for now it may be just heating up coffee and oatmeal in the morning.

[Duncan]

Hi Ray
I realized after I posted that I had missed your discussions elsewhere, sorry. I let the post stand just out of interest, and now I get it, how this fits with your overall plans for the boat. Good luck!