Icebox Size

[Lloyd]

I will be putting in a new icebox in my Bristol 27 rebuild project. I've read Tim's Glissando icebox write up and Dasien icbox write up and can not figure out what size these things are. I have no clue how big block ice is. So I need some ideas;
1- How big should the interior of the box be? and
2- what size opening at the top?
All thoughts welcome.

[dasein668]

I'd say make it as big as is practical. Given the size of a boat like the Bristol 27, it won't be too large.

I'll be happy to measure my icebox when I'm on the boat tomorrow.

[CharlieJ]

Ours is about one dishpan wide- a Rubbermaid dishpan that is, and roughly two dishpans long. It's about 12, 14 inches deep.

We freeze blocks of ice in a Rubbermaid dishpan to use - we figure one of those is about 16 pounds of ice and in our icebox that will last about 10, 12 days easily. Last year we left Texas with one of those blocks and when we arrived in Florida we still had some of that block left. We did buy more once along the way though.

Our box has a shelf on one side where the ice sits, so it isn't down in the melt water. Canned drinks are kept below it, sitting in any melt water. We have no drain- we pump the water down as needed with a small manual bilge pump.

I should mention that we do not use the ice chest for foods though- just for keeping drinks cold. We don't use foods aboard that require being kept cold except at the very beginning of a trip.

One thing we've found to be extremely helpful by the way is to lay a sheet of insulation on top, under the lids. We use a reflective waffle weave type, cut to fit.

Ours has two lids- one small that we use regularly and one larger one for access to the ice. I think they should ALL be made like that so you don't have to open the whole top each time.

[Tim]

How do you plan to use your icebox? Daysails, weekends, or some actual cruises?

How long do you want ice to last?

Do you want to keep food as well as drinks?

These are critical questions you should ask yourself first, and then perhaps answer for us. Then I think we can offer some more valuable answers.

[Lloyd]

As far as the room goes my old one had the access hatch out side and a front loading door inside. It had a space under it for your feet when using the berth. I am filling in the outside hatch and am planning on building the new icebox with the top counter top high. The bottom will go all the way down and out to the hull as Tims and Dasein668s's boxes.

As far as the berth goes it will either be very short, used as just a seat, or I will cut a foot area through the 1/2" bulkhead on the other end of it. That will give it two feet in the lower part of the hanging locker.

CharlieJ. Your idea of using the dishpans for the ice gives me some size to go by, sort of. Is the shelf high, low or just some where in the middle? If you could put in a drain as Nathen would you? Also are the two lids separate or is the small one inside the larger one?

As far as use of the boat goes. It will start out with daysails, building to weekends then hopefully a cruise or two. I have a good bit of lake sailing under my belt and a little daysailing on the Gulf Coast but very little over night stuff. As a teanager I sailed with my Dad out of Point Judith over nighting at Block Island or in Newport RI. But all that was a long time ago.

How long do I want the ice to last? A reasonable amount of time.

Drinks and/or food? Drinks for sure (after all I live in Mississippi--its hot) and I would think a little bit of food.

[CharlieJ]

lol- Yup- we know about Miss. We've been through there the last two years aboard the boat. Usually anchor up in Lake Yazoo at Pascagoula.

The shelf is set so a regular 12 oz drink can will clear under it. It has runners all along both sides of the box so the shelf can slide to either end.

We discussed a drain, but that would require something in the bilge to catch the water or a through hull. I took ALL through hulls out of the boat when we rebuilt it. So no, we wouldn't put a drain in. We've found that it isn't all that onerous to simply pump it out every other day. I mean-- you're there and cruising- what else do you have to do? Grin.

Here's what the lids look like closed-



and the small side open. ALL the chest has at least that much insulation, which is as much as we could fit in. There's a rubber gasket under each lid too.



There's no drain in that sink either by the way- it lifts out for emptying. As I said- there are NO through hulls in the boat. And no openings at all below the wter line.

[Tim]

Lloyd,

I imagine the space you have on your B-27 is somewhat similar to what might be found on the similar Triton. So if you build a new box in the existing space (where your old one was), but to a new design, the overall size is pretty well dictated.

I think it makes sense to use 4" of insulation, even if you think you don't need the ultimate in ice-keeping capacity. 4" on each side of the box takes up a lot of room, so your first step is to roughly mock up the dimensions of the space you have and see how much of a box you end up with after subtracting for all the insulation. Don't forget to subtract for the insulation on the bottom and top of the box too.

You may find that something of a compromise works best, if 4" of insulation reduces the size of your box too much. If that's the case, try 3", but certainly no less than 2" all around.

When you're cruising and counting you your icebox to keep perishable food fresh, the quality of the box and its cold-keeping properties become much more important. Cold drinks are a convenience, but food goes bad if you don't keep it cold. I like to eat regular food while cruising, so maintaining a cold icebox for the preservation of food is important to me. If the ice doesn't last, it means I have to go to populated ports more frequently to recharge the supply. Since I prefer cruising in out-of-the-way places, I wanted to minimize how many ice stops were required. But I can't let the ice run out, since that would mean the potential spoilage of the food.

If I put in as much ice as I can--typically about 3 blocks and 2 bags of cubes--and cram in the food on top (there's not that much room left after packing in the ice), I can easily cruise worry-free (and without adding more ice) for more than a week in Maine. Mississippi may offer different results. But you'll have no trouble keeping drinks cold whatever you do.

Once you've figured this part out, the rest sort of leads itself. You only have so much room in a small boat, so the size is self-limiting. The dishpan ice is a great idea, so if you plan to do this buy the size dishpan you intend to use and be sure that you can fit it through your opening, and into the box somewhere.

Standard factory-made blocks of ice (10#) are something around 12" long and 7-8" in square profile. If you're not sure, then head to any store with an ice machine and check them out yourself. They're pretty standardized. At a minimum, your opening should allow you to put these in.

When I built my icebox, I did not include a drain. Nathan's icebox is very similar to mine, but he did include a drain (which runs to a grey water sump chamber, not into the bilge or directly overboard). I have drain envy, and regret not putting a drain in.

That said, pumping the icebox with a dedicated piston-type bilge pump isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not my favorite chore. It doesn't make me suicidal with grief either, so you'll have to judge the difficulty and challenges of installing a drain for yourself, balanced against the constant need to pump meltwater. A shelf to keep food out of the water is key; I don't have one, as the space seemed so limited as to make it a challenge, so I keep all the perishable food in Ziploc bacs and small plastic trays. It works, but it's not perfect. That is one of many reasons why I bought another project boat for my future: to improve upon all the mistakes made the first time.

A very big lid for easy access for cleaning and ice installation is nice. My lid is one piece and is sort of mid-sized: large enough for decent access, but not so large as to be ridiculous. After all, the icebox itself is pretty small, though it's as large as I could make it in the space. Nathan has a 2-piece lid that works well, but each half of his is about the same size as my single lid. Both the single and the double lid work well in practice. Your own installation ought to make clear which route is best for you.

For something so inherently simple--a box to keep ice cold--it sure is amazing how many details there are with building a good icebox.

[dasein668]

For me the drain is most nice not so much because of the lack of pumping, but rather because it seems to keep the humidity level down in the box (compared to my old box, which had no drain).

I would never consider running the icebox drain striaght to the bilge. Yuck. The grey water sump is good, as it then pumps out above the waterline, and can support both the icebox and the galley sink.

That said, it isn't critical. Manual pumping and dumping works, too.

[Lloyd]

Thanks for all of the replies. You have given me enough to think about on the size question.

CharlieJ, I like the looks --clean--of your galley. Very nice.

And Tim, Thanks for the size of the blocks. I have never seen an ice machine with blocks around here. Great feed back and I Love your web site. Thanks.

[CharlieJ]

Lloyd- there's an ice house in Pascagoula that sells the best block ice on the gulf coast. Grin.

One thing to avoid like the plague is those blocks made from compressed shaved ice. Those won't last as long as a bag of crushed ice. When you buy, choose the clearest block you can find- the very best ice is completely transparent, like a block of glass. Those with a lot of frosted look inside have air in them- won't last as long.

We could only get roughly 3 1/2 inches of insulation around ours. We used 3/4 inch urethane foam with foil both sides. Cut each piece to fit, lapping the corners alternately and sealed all the joints with a non-expanding spray foam. Then taped all outside corners with aluminum duct taping. Don't skimp on the lids- lids that aren't well insulated are almost useless.

With our box, we can easily go a week with one dishpan sized block, here on the Texas coast. I'd bet that in Maine waters we could come close to two weeks.

But when you use the box for food, you of course get shorter time with the ice. Takes more food room so there's less ice room. One way around that is freezing as much of the food as possible before you leave and starting with that as part of your ice. Last long cruise we took, Laura froze several dinners in foodsaver bags. Then we took them out and just boiled the bags. That lasted about 4 days- then we reverted to our normal non refrigerated foodstuffs. But it would certainly extend you ice.

By the way- the islands in Mississippi Sound are great cruising. Horn, Ship, etc. In fact, Mississippi Sound is one of our favorite places to sail on the gulf coast.

Oh- and thanks on the galley- took a lot of head scratching to get that. There are two steps shown in the first picture. The top one flips over and is fomicaed on the reverse- makes additional galley space. The second one lifts and has the garbage can under it.

Here's a "before" picture of the boat-

[Lloyd]

CharlieJ Truely amazing, the before and then the two icebox shots. Your workmanship is fantastic. I only wish my workmanship could measure....oh mever mind, I will just be glad to get her back together and floating again someday. Long, long, long term project. But I can dream.

[MikeD]

The shelf is set so a regular 12 oz drink can will clear under it. It has runners all along both sides of the box so the shelf can slide to either end...

Now that's good planning and excellent execution! It's been 12 years since I moved from Austin, and at least that long since I've had a Shiner Bock.

:)

[CharlieJ]

Mike- I'm sorry. Grin. That's the only beer I drink. Don't consider most american "beers" to be worth buying.

[Rachel]

One thing to avoid like the plague is those blocks made from compressed shaved ice. Those won't last as long as a bag of crushed ice.

Charlie, those aren't blocks, they're "blocks." You shouldn't even think of dignifying them without putting the "these aren't really what the word says" quotation marks around them. Honestly. The plague looks good next to those things.

And yes, I do have something to add besides the rant.

I haven't done this myself, but in one of the often-quoted Pardey books, they describe the icebox drain they had on their first cruising boat. It was nothing complicated, but just some sort of valve at the bottom of the box. Once every day or two, they'd drain off the meltwater by gravity into a container, and then put drinks in it to chill so as to make use of its coldness. I've always thought that sounded like a good idea (and of course you could do the same thing with the pumped water, if it went someplace convenient, like the galley sink).

They said that in their next boat they plumbed it to drain into a sump, and while it was more convenient, they missed the drinks-chilling meltwater they had formerly drained by hand.

Rachel

[Hirilondë]

My Renegade came with an ice box. It is one of the few parts of the boat I did little to. I simply cleaned, scuffed and painted the inside. It has a drain to the bilge, which I don't really like, but adding a sump isn't really practical. I have added a plug for the drain hole which I will leave in and only remove for draining when I can assure only water and no food contaminants are present. Otherwise I will pump out. Minimizing standing water will lengthen the time ice lasts. Liquids conduct heat faster than gases. Keeping the ice out of water all the time as Charlie has suggested is key to prolonging ice.

[Ceasar Choppy]

My Renegade came with an ice box. It is one of the few parts of the boat I did little to. I simply cleaned, scuffed and painted the inside. It has a drain to the bilge, which I don't really like, but adding a sump isn't really practical...

I miss that great front loading door on the Renegade's ice box.