computers on board

dan sundy · Post by **dan sundy** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:41 am

Software for both navigation and radio communication are increasingly available for laptop computers. What experience with laptops in a boat enviroment has anyone had? Does an ordinary laptop survive?

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:48 am

Short answer: yes.

I've got a cheap, old PC laptop that I've been using aboard Dasein for the past three years. I take moderate care to keep it out of the weather, but other than that I haven't taken any special precautions and it's been running fine. I just keep it in it's little leather briefcase when not using it.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:13 pm

I use a Panasonic Toughbook from eBay, a small investment for a tough machine. They have a magnesium case, shock-resistant hard drive, and a spill-proof keyboard. They're built to military specs and are used a lot in police cars, so the marine environment would be small challenge.

For software I use Memory Map. There's also a good program called SeaClear that is free. I prefer Memory Map only because it is what I'm used to.

I prefer the laptop over a chart plotter because it's a lot less money, and all my normal computer stuff travels with me. With the proliferation of wireless "hot spots" at marinas, it's great to be able to check one's email and surf the net while out voyaging.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:51 pm

I've used two different ordinary laptops during some extended time aboard, and they both fared quite well. Interestingly, when I was doing research before the first time out, I found an evaluation in which a couple of everyday laptops (ncluding a Toshiba, which is what I already had at the nav. station) fared better on a "spill test" than the Toughbook did (that being said, the Toughbook shone in "drop" type tests).

Both the Toshiba and a subsequent Sony Vaio (different boat) worked fine, even in the moist and un-electronics-friendly environment of a smallish boat in the tropics. The Sony is still going strong years later as a friend's primary home computer.

The Toshiba survived a couple of freshwater soakings when a porthole leaked (after which we developed a better protection scheme).

What we did to protect them was two-fold, but simple. First was to secure them to the nav station with a removable shock cord set-up; and second was to make a long panel that had Scoot-Gard on the bottom, and a rolled up bit of plastic on the top (taped together). The computer sat on the Scoot Gard always, and the plastic panel stayed rolled up behind the top/back edge ready for instant deployment when necessary.

I saw a slick set-up on another boat wherein the laptop lived in a plywood open-topped, shallow box with hinges on the outboard side. The whole thing could be moved up and secured out of the way for protection from the elements or to enable working with paper charts. In our case the laptop was always on the nav table, and we did chart work on the saloon table.

I use a Mac for personal stuff, and at first I thought I would get that all set up to be a nav computer (a bit of work at that time). In the end I decided I'd rather just use a cheapish PC for that, and not have "my" computer sitting at the base of the often-open companionway day-in and day-out.

Rachel

Post by **Tim** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:53 pm

dasein668 wrote:Short answer: yes.

I've got a cheap, old PC laptop that I've been using aboard Dasein for the past three years. I take moderate care to keep it out of the weather, but other than that I haven't taken any special precautions and it's been running fine. I just keep it in it's little leather briefcase when not using it.

My own answer, if I bothered to fully type it, would be just about identical to this.

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:24 pm

I used an old Pentium II (Dell Latitude) laptop running Sea Clear and a cable to a handheld gps. Itworked fine. I had a small Xantrex inverter too (< $40 at Radio Shack) because the battery was shot.

Seems to hold up fine if you take reasonable care of it.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:24 pm

I have a docking station (also from eBay) that lets me leave all the peripherals plugged in and snap the laptop out to take it home. It holds the computer firmly and tilts it up slightly at the rear, making it easier to see from the cockpit.
The docking station is attached to a square of plywood with non-skid surface underneath.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:28 am

Old laptops must be the sensible way to go, but a mini/nano-ITX hobbyist solution could be very elegant.

There are very small systems with no fans and no hard drive (boot off a Compact flash card). The power requirements are very small (as low as 1 or 2 amps @12V DC). You can get touch screen displays that could potentially eliminate the keyboard and the mouse most of the time, too. I think the low power, lack of heat, and fewer moving parts could potentially make these more robust - they do call some of them "industrial computers".

I actually prefer not having a computer on the boat, but I have some assorted Raymarine leftovers I'm thinking of building into a "navigation system" someday, maybe ;) . But I think I navigate better without electricity.

Post by **dasein668** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:47 pm

Tim wrote:
dasein668 wrote:Short answer: yes.

I've got a cheap, old PC laptop that I've been using aboard Dasein for the past three years. I take moderate care to keep it out of the weather, but other than that I haven't taken any special precautions and it's been running fine. I just keep it in it's little leather briefcase when not using it.
My own answer, if I bothered to fully type it, would be just about identical to this.

Got lazy fingers today?

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:48 pm

Duncan wrote:Old laptops must be the sensible way to go, but a mini/nano-ITX hobbyist solution could be very elegant.

There are very small systems with no fans and no hard drive (boot off a Compact flash card). The power requirements are very small (as low as 1 or 2 amps @12V DC). You can get touch screen displays that could potentially eliminate the keyboard and the mouse most of the time, too. I think the low power, lack of heat, and fewer moving parts could potentially make these more robust - they do call some of them "industrial computers".

I actually prefer not having a computer on the boat, but I have some assorted Raymarine leftovers I'm thinking of building into a "navigation system" someday, maybe ;) . But I think I navigate better without electricity.

I'm with you on this... To me the biggest problems with laptops are the 4 amps they need to operate.

I looked into this a few months ago and decided to wait a bit... biggest problem with the operating system. With Windoze, the page file read-writes would chew up a CF card quick. Linux is the way to go from everything I read to make it easy and reliable. I'm just not up on Linux.

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:26 pm

If you are not up on Linnux try something like Knoppix - it will run straight from any bootable device - ed a CD or 500MB flash drive

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:30 pm

Thanks Mark,

I'll check it out.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:34 am

The Ubuntu distro is arguably the best beginner's Linux, IMHO.

-- Eric

A30_John · Post by **A30_John** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:47 am

There are very small systems with no fans and no hard drive (boot off a Compact flash card). The power requirements are very small (as low as 1 or 2 amps @12V DC).

Duncan, are these commercially available? Can you point me to such a system?

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:18 pm

A30_John wrote:Duncan, are these commercially available? Can you point me to such a system?

Hi John - there are a few of them here: Mini-box.com

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:13 pm

Duncan wrote:
A30_John wrote:Duncan, are these commercially available? Can you point me to such a system?
Hi John - there are a few of them here: Mini-box.com

More here. I think the harder challenge with this approach is in the display. Here are a couple of links. Xenarc Technologies has some interesting products including this one and Miller Technologies looks like another interesting source.

Does any one know what the average chart plotter draws for power?

-- Eric

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:31 am

Looks like about 1A.

A quick lookup of the specs for the Garmin 392/398/492/498 (dunno if this is an average plotter) states 14w max @ 13.8v.

I would be happy getting an onboard computer system down to 2A for most stuff while underway. A 10" touchscreen monitor draws about half that -- 1A -- when active.