outhaul idea

[kaynee30]

Tim et al:
I've been considering reworking my outhaul, and I have an idea. I'm sure there's something wrong with it, else somebody would be using it.
Anyway, I want to use Ronstan series 20 blocks: A triple at the back of the boom, and a double with a becket on the clew. Starting at the becket, I run 1/4" line through the sheaves and down to a cheek block on the same side as the last threaded sheave on the triple. I think that gives 7:1 purchase even before the thing leaves the clew. I know you said that even your 6:1 wasn't enough..so I'm thinking adding a little more, and avoiding the other block mid-boom, as you have. This gets the job done without dead ends on the boom, and very compactly. If the series 20 and 1/4" line is too light, maybe I could use series 30?
Why is this a stupid idea?

[kaynee30]

that would be a triple with a becket on the end of the boom, and a triple on the clew for the 7:1

[Figment]

Sounds like a winner to me.

In my experience, the general downfall of triple-double (and larger) setups is that invariably one hunk of line crosses another and gets hung up on the way into the sheave, suddenly turning your 7:1 into something less than half as effective. Another generally troublesome attribute is the sheer amount of line leftover after hauling in on such a tackle.

The outhaul application mostly avoids both of these. The range of adjustment is relatively short.... 6 inches? maybe 8 maximum? and therefore the run of line is (quickmathdon'tfailmenow) about 42". Easily manageable. Also, the clew of the main is a relatively stable entity, which is to say that it's not usually flogging about much while you're trying to adjust it, which leaves minimal opportunity for the jamming described above.

It's not that you're the only one doing it, it's just that you're the only one doing it in a visible location. Lots of performance boats have big purchases on the outhaul, they just hide the tackle inside the boom where you haven't a prayer of unjamming anything.

PS: tough break with the stern tube. I feel for ya.

[Guest]

"...tough break."
Maybe not: I'm gonna leave her on the mooring for about another month while I work out sail control and reefing systems. Timster gave me a ride in Glissando to show me how stuff works, and rather than haul, fix, launch, and haul again, I'll be putting the few hundred bucks I save into the rig. And I can get a head start on finishing the interior and building a seahood and installing the dodger for next season.. Maybe even get a roller-reefing jib on. I have a much better picture of what I need, and where I want things to go. Sailing in bad, gusty wind and weather, getting wet, and having to go foreward to hank and douse the jib while on a rollercoaster ride has really changed my plans. Mister "I'm not so cockey now"...not so cockey, now. With no sailing options, I have the time to get busy and finish what I started. Otherwise I'd just get lost out there playing around.
Tim, our host and diarist., may be posting a bit about our adventure on Kaynee, and the "in yer face" sailing education I got last week.
Thanks for the thoughts on the triple/triple....I guess the only way I'll find out is by trying it. Works in my head.

[Tim]

Jeff,

I think your proposed setup will work. One reason you don't see such things very frequently is that most boats don't have enough room aft of the foot of the sail on the boom to fit such a purchase and have adequate room for adjustment--I certainly don't. (As Mike said, many boats have this sort of tackle inside the boom. Nice and out of the way, but tough to service!) However, I know that you do have adequate room (or at least abundant room), since your mainsail foot is a bit shorter, and I think your boom possibly even longer than mine as well. With the 12" or more of space that you have there, you should have plenty of adjustment room. Check your measurements, though, to make sure you have enough room for the two blocks, beckets, and the inevitable bowline s ecuring your line in place to the becketed block. Beyond this raw clearance, I think you should have a minimum of 2-3" remaining to ensure proper adjustment capability and ability to stretch the mainsail foot as tight as possible.

When the mainsail foot is stretched out pretty much to its max, I recommend that you have the tackle less than 2-blocked--that is, have some additional adjustment room in there so that you don't ever have a situation where you run out of tackle before the sail is as tight as you want. Again, you should have adequate room for this.

I think the series 20 blocks will be OK for the main part of the tackle. However, I recommend going to the larger size for your cheek/turning block that will lead the line forward. This partcular block will be under much strain, and you also have to be sure that the lead angle is just so. The lightweight 20 series features such lightweight cheeks (sides) that it can't handle a slight misalignment of the line. Nathan had this problem on Dasein. But for the main tackle, the small blocks should be the right choice.

One final consideration: 1/4" line is the right choice for the maintackle (but choose a line with higher strength and low stretch if you can; I used T900 Spectra for my after tackle). But the small line is very hard on the hands, so if you can manage to find a way to splice or tie a length of heavier line (3/8 - 7/16) for the portion that you will be handling when you adjust the outhaul, you'll be much happier. I went with 7/16, which seems huge for what it does, but it sure is easy on the hands in the cockpit.

A log of epic proportions is in the works for our cruise on Kaynee the other week. It will be complete just as soon as I can dedicate the proper amount of time to complete it!

Now, I'm going cruising. It's a gorgeous weekend.

[kaynee30]

Tim
I measured the space between the fitting at the end of the boom and the clew...14": lots of room. And I noticed that the current cheek is set so that I can switch the becket block fo the front and get 8:1 purchase. And I'm gonna have the bolt rope cut from the main this winter. Should be nice!
Oh yeah, I respooged those leakng chainplates with butyl yesterday, and noticed that the stuff sets in about 15 minutes. Nice. It also seems to adhere better to the bronze....the 101 that I'm removing is just generally too stiff to flex without breaking bont at the metal: that's the weak spot. I'll let you know in a month or so how the butyl holds to the bronze. I realize from cinching up the salon ports that the butyl is still elastic and flowing after a year in-place. And at $4.00 per tube for butyl, I may never use 101 again.
One more thing: I think the bolts that hold the DriveSave to the propshaft flange are adrift...they move in and out. That's what allowed the shaft to wander without killing my bearings. I thought the bolts sheared...and they probably will, if the prop hits something; but they also pull out when the alignment goes boink. Genious!
Jeff

[kaynee30]

Tim, et al,
The triples are in..the purchase is 7:1 (I can't add in my head). I used the existing cheek (Schaffer #2, and a similarly-sized Harken at the mast-end of the boom to turn the line down to another block on that useless bail near the bottom of the mast, which in-turn leads it to the cabin top, and into the cockpit. The pull seems to be real easy, so I'm not going to bother to size up the line yet.. That allows me to use less expensive cam cleats for 1/4" line. The T-900 is a budget-buster, though! I still have about 6" between the triples (Harken micro) when cinched up.
So, next question:
Cunningham: I want to use the same 1/4" line set up for it. Without sizing-up at the cockpit, would you suggest increasing the purchase? ( Yeah, I've discovered the power of tackle...intoxicating!). My idea is to dead-end the line to the eye, run it through the cringle, then down to a double on that bail, back up and through the cringle, down to a single on the dead-end eye, back up through the cringle, down into the second sheave of the double on the bail, then back to the cockpit. The T-900 is very hard and waxy...I don't think friction at the cringle will ba a much. Foresee any problems? Is this just too much for a cunningham? (I should have tried messing with your controls on my tutorial sail to get an idea of the pressures involved.)
PS: My valuable sketches of your running rigging have been tossed in the trash. D'OH!
Someone thought they were child's scribbling. Yep.
Jeff

[Figment]

Jeff,

By my reading of your post, that's a 4:1 purchase (though friction WILL build in the cringle under load and cost you some effort), which I would think is plenty. I say this because I have yet to wish for more than my basic dinghy-rigged 2:1.

I confess, however, that I don't fuss much with the cunningham (mine's a true "downhaul"). I tend to set it when I hoist the sail and leave it set for the day unless conditions change drastically. I got all the downhaul-fiddling out of my system in my beach-cat (critical control, so typically 6:1 or better) days.

It does sound like you've caught the tackle bug! I guess I'd better avoid sailing on boats that are all set up like Tim's, lest I fall victim as well!

[Tim]

Jeff,

With your 7:1 purchase, the pressure you need to exert on the control line in the cockpit may be light enough that the small line won't cut too badly into your hands. In any case, it's a momentary pull--so even if the line burns a bit in your palms, it's only for a second. Rest assured, however, that the strain you feel when you pull it on the mooring is probably substantially less than when the sail is full and drawing in 15 knots of air. See how it goes, and modify accordingly if necessary. The line issue is only one of comfort, so that's up to you.

I think your proposed cunnningham control tackle sounds far too complicated. All that tackle is nice to really yank on something, but it causes friction and is more than you need in this application. It's best, with sail controls, to avoid installing more than you need. Use what gets the job done and nothing more.

Mine has only a 2:1 total advantage and is absolutely fine as is. Sure, some weight (ahem) behind the pull is necessary when the wind pipes up a bit, but you're only using it to completely tighten the luff/move the draft in stronger winds--not nearly as difficult as tensioning the foot. Remember: you've already hoisted and tensioned your mainsail using the halyard and the winch (*install a winch handle holder on the mast), and the cunningham is a minor adjustment tool. You should never really need the force that a substantial block and tackle can apply in this instance.

Since you lost your detailed and carefully-executed (haha) drawings, to refresh: my cunningham deadends on the mast at a point somewhat lower than the gooseneck. The line then runs through the cunningham cringle, down to a turning block at the mast base, and then aft to the cockpit.

I recommend, in the interest of simplicity, that you try a basic setup first and use it in real-world practice for a while. You can leave the line long during this period, in case you decide you want to increase the advantage.

If you need a new sketch of something, let me know. Or photos.