First Question

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am

Hi guys and gals.

I am looking at classic plastic sailng yachts. Mid late 60's, Alberg, Allied, Morgan, Pearson, etc...

Has anyone found a bank that understands old boats and finances them?

I figure instead of buying with cash available, I can kick in a bit more and get an even better boat.

Any leads?

Thanks in advance!!

Ric

Post by **CapnK** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:40 pm

Hi Ric -

I'm going to hazard a guess that you will be better off trying to just get a boat with what you have, unless you are real friendly with a banker. My previous boat was a '79, and I had to show up at the bank with all kinds of info to prove I was getting a good buy on a boat still in production in order to manage a small loan (under $10K) for the purchase, and I sorta knew the guy through connections. He was still reluctant.

Them bankers, they like collateral of a recent, high-dollar vintage (even if it's a Catahunterteau), and most of 'em probably don't see the inherent value of Classic Plastic boats. Too bad for them!

We know The Truth of the matter. :)

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:08 pm

Suppose thats why they make home equity loans.....

Looked a Pearson 35 today. Mid 20's should have been mid teens (maybe lower).

Crazed deck on every square inch. Gorgeous interior. Has potential....if the owner was serious about selling it.

Looked at a second Pearson...again mid 20's nicer but mid 70's. Interior like a winnebago. Horrible. Functional and clean...but UGH.

Guy also had a Cheoy Lee that they are planning on crushing. Maybe a 26? Had been sold several times and stripped. A mess but sad to see a boat that was once so pretty get backhoed into little pieces.

Ric

Post by **Tim** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:48 am

Ric in Richmond wrote:Has anyone found a bank that understands old boats...

If you do, it'll be a first!

If you have the equity available, I feel that's a better choice anyway. Not only wil the rate be far more favorable (in general), but the interest is deductible. Equity lines are also much easier to open, have easy payment terms, and can be paid up and down to your heart's desire, making them very versatile. If you aren't one to default on your loans anyway, then don't worry about having your house acting as collateral.

That said, I'd recommend going with cash available, if you can. A boat is a far more enjoyable thing to own (and justify) if you don't have to make payments. Of course, I understand the practical limits of this philosophy (which is one reason I buy derelicts...it's easier for me to put overly large amounts of money in over time than trying to come up with a bulk sum).

Banks tend to have very specific rules, important only to their own internal workings, that must be satisfied in most cases. Rarely are these rules logical, nor are they helpful to normal people, but at least the rules make dealing with banks more unpleasant than it already is. Oops, sorry for the editorial. ;<)

Ric in Richmond wrote:Looked at a second Pearson...again mid 20's nicer but mid 70's. Interior like a winnebago. Horrible. Functional and clean...but UGH

While few things are uglier than a 70s era boat interior, rest assured that this is a simple thing to change. I would recommend that you look past the decor and consider the true pros and cons of this, or any, boat. Of all the things one might find wrong with a boat, the way the interior looks is, to me, one of the easiest to change. No, it's not free to reupholster an interior, for example, but boy will it make a difference. And 70s woodgrain Formica...well, that's easily addressed as well, in a variety of different ways.

70s Pearsons tended to be very fiberglass-y in the interior, cold and impersonal. Some attractive throw rugs, or additional woodwork, or almost anything would make a huge difference. Think of it as a blank canvas, and go from there. Get rid of the brown or green plaid, the aqua countertops, or what have you. Of course, to do this successfully, you have to be comfortable with the price you pay for any boat in any given condition, and if there are areas of the boat that you feel need immediate improvement or work, you must also be able to handle the anticipated cost of doing so.

Ric in Richmond wrote:...Has potential....if the owner was serious about selling it...

This is so common. There are plenty of boats out there begging for new owners, yet the sellers stick stubbornly to an unrealistic asking price, never coming to the realization that their boats are worth substantially less. This can be very frustrating as a potential buyer. The situation is often worst with an older seller, one who may have owned the boat for many years, and upon which many happy memories were formed. That's great, but unfortunately sellers' sentiment does not translate into a high price for someone else. This is often impossible to overcome, sadly. A seller with fond memories and an asking price of, say, $25K will not likely be happy to hear an offer of 12, even if it's realistic and properly addresses the true condition of the boat. Sometimes these sellers come around when presented with true documentation as to their boat's condition and comparables on the market, but usually only after a survey has been done. The catch 22 here is that the buyer and seller usually need to agree on a price before a survey, so it's hard to determine (for both parties) an accurate and fair price in many cases.

Keep up the search. Eventually, the pieces fall properly into place.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:23 am

Ric- usually you don't find a boat anyway- usually THEY find YOU!!

And it might not even be close to you- we live in Texas and got Tehani from New York.

george · Post by **george** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:36 am

There is a used and sailable Pearson 25 at Yankee Point Marina near Lively, VA, for sale for a $6,500. I am sure you could talk them down a bit. I did not go over it, but it looked in reasonable shape.

(EDIT: I just looked at their site and the only Pearson they have listed is NOT the boat I am talking about! You should call and ask about the $6,500 boat for sale, I am sure I saw it!)

That marina seems to get a lot of inexpensive boats, and has a yearly charity auction where I got my Alberg 30. The auction is held every year in April or May, so you may want to check that out.

They also had a 22 footer of less classic vintage for $2000. It was "ready for sailing" according to the flyer on the bulletin board.

Here is the Yankee Point link. They are nice folks. Ken and Karen Knull.

http://www.yachtworld.com/yankeepointmarina/

george · Post by **george** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:56 am

I called myself!

It was a 30-ft hunter that sold for $6,500. It sold this morning.

They have another one in "better shape" for $11,500 but he said they would likely take less.

He said he was trying to get the Pearson 35 owner to lower the price.

Sorry about the confusion! They have a sweet-looking Bristol 24 (not an Alberg design though) for $8,000. It is in great shape and could likely be had for much less.

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:13 am

I did find Essex bank will loan on an older boat at about 9+% with 30% down. not bad terms for the risk they are accepting. But HELOC was a better deal.

I was going to spend only cash and rework baot myself, but ran across a boat that had been done and appear to be a good value due to owners change in plans.

Inspection will be on Sunday.

Fingers crossed if it looks half as good as the pictures.

Yankee Point will be its new home....if it all comes together.

More details once the deal is done.

Ric

george · Post by **george** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:58 am

Good luck, feel free to work on my boat when you are at Yankee Point!

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:43 am

Which one? I'd be happy to keep an eye on it if you are in Georgia.

Not much for working on other peoples boats....but I have some old drain pipes in my house that need replacing....I'll trade you!

(dontcha just love crawl spaces and camel crickets?...that's where I'll be in the morning!!!)

Ric

george · Post by **george** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:09 pm

I see you found it! It is the brightest boat at the Marina.

I think the marina owners are slightly annoyed I am transforming the boat and not paying their yard workers anything. Or buying their boat store items.

I bought a gallon of acetone for $15, but the 3 year old candybar was gross!

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:22 am

She is bright!!!

She will look great soon though.

Hopefully I will be there more often. Are you really in Georgia.

I am sure the Marina will get a fair amount of my money. They made a point that we can work on our boats there, but they'd like to see us buy supplies there and that they were trying to be competitive in price.

Seems like a really nice marina, and people have the right to earn a living, so I am going to do my best to support them, but I'm not going to just pay the going rate without some research, especially on big ticket stuff.

We will know soon as I am about to drive 4 hours to do an inspection on a classic glass boat......

Look at it at 1pm today!!

Ric

george · Post by **george** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:03 am

What sort of boat are you looking at? Hope you take pictures.

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I am in Atlanta, a mere 10 hour drive from my boat. I will be looking at marinas in Charleston soon. That is only 5 hours away. I looked in Savannah, but there are too many rivers to contend with. Charleston is much closer to open waters.

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I think the marina does not really try to compete on bigger-ticket items. A gallon of primer in town at the hardware store is half as much, and online a third as much. When you see they want $170 for a gallon of primer you will wish you had bought your stuff before you got there.

I did buy tape, some foam brushes, more acetone, rags, and the like from the marina. But only because I ran out of those things.

I have not been to many marinas, but most probably have similar pricing schemes. I don't blame them, there are people pulling up in 50-footers that pay whatever price is on an item and don't flinch. I think that is who marina stores are for. Not for guys who buy abandoned boats for $2,000 after reading This Old Boat.

The hardware store in Kilmarnock has a lot of marine supplies and they are more competitive. A quart of one-part poly there was the same as it cost me online (after shipping). Also, a quart of primer was only a couple of dollars more than online.

Good prices can be found locally, just usually not at the marina. Or at least not in my limited experience.

I do not blame marinas for their prices, but I have a strict budget that cannot bear much interaction with them.

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I hope the boat you are looking at is a good one!

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:30 pm

Boat was good...but have some questions. Going to post them in Q&A.

No pics or info on the boat yet......Once deal is done.

Ric