Protecting bare aluminum

[Ryan]

I am using a brass wire wheel to clean up several badly stained pieces of aluminum (including the boom and possibly the mast later on) from my project boat. I am happy with the brushed look after the cleaning is done, but what type of coating, if any, do you suggest to prevent the bare aluminum from corroding/staining again?

[Jason K]

How about some paint? A freshly painted mast really goes a long way towards making an old boat look new (just don't paint it black, please).

Isn't it incredible how one project can becomes several more? Why can't I just collect stamps?

[heartofgold]

Isn't it incredible how one project can becomes several more? Why can't I just collect stamps?

Have you seen the price of some of those rare stamps!?! Not me; I'll stick to sinking 2X the value of a boat into its resotation, thank you very much!

[Tim]

I always say that if I weren't into boats, as a hobby, profession, and lifestyle, that I would surely have other expensive vices--cars, electronics, travel, what have you. As it is, I pretty much focus on only ONE area (the boats), so, expensive as it is, that's pretty much the extent of things.

Besides, what's the fun in life if you don't have something to do all the time? Boats are pricey, but they pay back huge dividends. If they don't, then they may be the wrong choice of diversion.

[CharlieJ]

LOL- Agree with that big time. Laura and I NEVER keep receipts for boat things. We figure the boats are gonna take what they take, and we really don't need to know exactly how much that is. Who cares anyway? It's gonna get spent, might as well be on a boat. You certainly can't take it with you:)

I'm very fortunate in that respect, in that I have a wife who loves sailboats as much as I do, and is willing to work as hard as I do to have them and keep them up.

In the past, SHE'S even come home with a derelict sailboat on a trailer behind her truck. *grin*

[CharlieJ]

Oh- and on the original question. The last aluminum mast I worked over, I sanded down with some 320, primed with Zinc Chromate primer and sprayed with a 2 part polyurethane. I chose black for that particular mast and boom. It's been about 5 years now and the mast and boom still are doing fine.

[amerigo]

I have a Kenyon mast that is white and all scratched up I would like to paint it. Do I need to take it down to bare aluminum to do so?

[Tim]

No, as long as the existing paint is solidly attached to the spar. You also want to be sure it's compatible with whatever you put over the top.

Depending how badly the mast is scratched up, though, you might be better off stripping all the paint, or else feathering all those scratches in will be a bear...and ultimately ineffective.

[amerigo]

Well the mast has a lot of dings and scratches in the lower third, the rest of the mast is ok. I dont mind taking it down to bare metal my son has a good sandblaster, Im just a little nervous about contamanting the aluminum because i have never done anything with aluminum before. I am planning on using the Interlux paints, primer etc. suggested by them, any other suggestions?

[Tim]

For bare aluminum prep, it's hard to beat the procedures detailed in the Awlgrip application guide--regardless of the final paint you use. Contamination is a legitimate issue, as is proper preparation and cleaning of bare aluminum. The Awlgrip guide covers several different scenarios.

It's available here (PDF): Application Guide
(to save to your windows computer, right-click>save target as)

[George ( C&C 40 )]

There are few things better in this world than a freshly Awlgripped Snow White mast. I've done three at this point and would not do it any other way.

George Jones
C&C 40 "Delphinus"
WL 24 "Poco Loco"

[amerigo]

thanks for all the great information. wish me luck!

[catamount]

I had my mast pulled this winter for a detailed rig survey. Among other work the rigger has recommended is re-painting the mast (~51') and boom (~12.5') (after other repairs). This includes stripping and bead blasting to remove corrosion from mutliple areas, which in turn facilitates further inspection of these parts. Then primer and paint. The discounted quote for just this is $3,500.

So I guess my options are (1) pay them to paint it this winter, or (2) try to paint it myself next winter, after I've delivered the boat north and got it home.

Advantages of (1): (a) Professional paint job done in a controlled environment, (b) all corroded areas cleaned up and inspected, (c) repairs (fresh welds, etc...) covered and protected from corrosion, (d) saves time and hassle, e.g. I don't have to deal with toxic chemicals myself.

Disadvantages of (1): spend $$$$

Advantages of (2): (a) save $$$$, (b) pride in a job well done (assuming it comes out OK without too much hassle).

Disadvantages of (2): (a) corroded areas not cleaned up and inspected before delivery voyage, (b) repairs not covered and protected from corrosion before delivery voyage, (c) uncertainty about my amatuer results (not having Awlgripped aluminum before), (d) have to deal with toxic chemicals, and (e) I've got plenty of other projects to fill my time.

What do you think you would do?

FWIW, the major repair involves putting in a doubler sleeve from below deck up to the halyard exit blocks (which I think are above the boom gooseneck), to repair a large crack at the vang attachment point just above the partners.

Regards,

[Case]

If it was competely cosmetic, I would tell you to just paint the mast yourself. But the needed repairs to the mast... Unless you are comfortable with doing some repairs to the mast yourself, I would think its better to let them to do it. And after the repairs, it is usually best to paint as soon as possible to prevent corrosion.

If it was me, I would let just cough up the $$$ and have the mast and boom repaired and painted so it will be in perfect condition so you can have a safe delivery voyage. A mast is an extremely important thingy on a sailboat to say in the least. This is one area where it's not really worth it to skimp on it.

You can always pratice painting awlgrip on the boat itself instead on the mast. At least after the work on the mast and boom are done, that is one thing done. You can just focus on other things on the boat that isn't as critical like the mast.

Thats my .02 cents. It's ultimately up to you. Good Luck. - Case

[catamount]

I'm definitely going to have the rigger's spar shop repair the mast -- that's not in question, just whether to have them paint it now, or me try to DIY later...

Thanks,

[Case]

After thinking on it a little more... To save on $$, perhaps its better to skip the paint job on the mast. Just put something on the repaired areas to protect it from potential corrosion after you get the mast back from the repair shop. It might be ugly as hell but it will do until you get the boat back home and repaint it. Assuming you plan to paint the mast white like the deck (and the hull if you decide to paint it white), this would save you lots of money since you can buy paint in bulk.

Ignore my previous comments. I have changed my mind since typing my previous comment. This is what I would do if I was in your shoes. Good Luck deciding what to do.

- Case

[Tim]

While my usual inclination is to say "do it yourself", the real answer is much more complex, and bears careful consideration in each individual case.

If you have any inclination to do this sort of work on your own projects in the future, I highly recommend that you give it a try. Whether you choose brushing or spraying, learning how to use this product is an excellent addition to your skill arsenal.

However, if the proper preparation and painting of your mast is going to prove to be an undue burden on your time, and you really aren't that interested in doing it yourself (beyond saving the cost of outside labor), then I would recommend that you go ahead and have the yard do it for you. It's a big job to strip and refinish a mast properly, and if you're going to begrudge the time spent, and at the cost of other projects you'd rather be doing (or have more skill to do), then you're far better off to just bite the bullet and contract out the spar painting.

As the character Dirty Harry is known for saying, "A man's got to know his limitations". For me, I always draw the line at canvas and sail work, as I know that it's not an interest or inherent skill of mine, and my time is not well spent working on these aspects of a project. If I had to do it, I would. But I don't have to, so I'm happy to let others take care of this specialized aspect, knowing that I'll end up with a better product in the end. But I do everything else myself, since I enjoy it all. Perhaps in your case, you know inside that you're better off hiring out something like the paint work. Only you know what the right answer is, but I recommend you stick with your gut feeling on this. The one-time cost of hiring the work out may prove to be less painful than forcing yourself to do the work yourself; or, perhaps, it won't be. What do you think it will be?

Frankly, stripping and repainting a mast doesn't fall into the "fun" category for anyone, and in the end it's far less satisfying than many other jobs might be. The chemicals involved aren't pleasant. Maybe having the shiny, completed spar ready to go will be better. Again: only you truly know what the right plan of attack is! There isn't a right or wrong answer here--the only answer that matters is what ultimately seems to work best for you, and what helps keep your project on track.

Perhaps spending $3500 isn't your first choice...but if the figure isn't in itself prohibitive, and you're leaning in this direction, you might be better off. But if you're excited about the prospect of working on your own mast, then I'd recommend you go for it.

You can always practice painting Awlgrip on the boat itself instead on the mast.

Actually, I'd say the exact opposite is true, and better: practice using Awlgrip on the mast, where the perfection of the result matters far less than on the hull. This doesn't mean that the mast should be a test bed for poor preparation or technique, but remember that most of the spar is never closely visible once it's stepped; therefore, flaws in the application, such as runs or sags, are far less noticeable on the mast.

Also, with the smaller surface (narrow though long), it's a pretty easy place to practice. For example, starting the painting at the masthead gives you the opportunity to fine-tune the technique (spraying or brushing, whichever you're doing) by the time you reach the base, where your improved technique will likely result in better results at the most visible portion of the mast.

Not everyone is inclined to deal with the toxicity and application details of a product like Awlgrip. If you're not, then I would recommend you stay away from it entirely. This approach will cost you more money in the end, as you'll need to hire this work out, but it's not worth attempting unless you truly have an interest in and inclination for doing this work yourself.

In the end, it's not that much more challenging to work with Awlgrip than with any other paint. But one has to really want to pick up the skill, and not attempt to do so if it seems one's time and effort might be better spent elsewhere.

[catamount]

Tim,

I guess my question is maybe more about the necessity of having the spars re-painted this winter immeadiately following the repairs, or whether that's not really necessary and I can let all the newly exposed aluminum go for another year before I will be able to give it a try myself.


Also, although I know many of you here have had some success with your own efforts at spar painting, I also know that it can be tricky. Here's the story of Jim Lee's refit of his J35 "No Tomorrows" http://www.garlic.com/~jimlee/NoTomorro ... Refit.html. It seems he had quite a struggle with it, and I think ultimately had the yard finish it.

Regards,

Tim

[Tim]

As far as that goes, you can put just about anything on the new aluminum as a temporary measure for protection. But it's not going to fall to pieces if left unprotected for a relatively short time.

Also, although I know many of you here have had some success with your own efforts at spar painting, I also know that it can be tricky. Here's the story of Jim Lee's refit of his J35 "No Tomorrows" http://www.garlic.com/~jimlee/NoTomorro ... Refit.html. It seems he had quite a struggle with it, and I think ultimately had the yard finish it.

Nothing against this guy, but he made a lot of errors caused by a lack of information and understanding on his own part. Hed he paid more attention, done some research, and been more careful, many of his problems would have been avoided.

As I said, not everyone is necessarily cut out to do all this stuff themselves. Everyone has their own limits.

But yes: painting a mast isn't necessarily easy (at all), and should be approached carefully.

[Rachel]

I'll just toss this out as a possible middle-of-the-road approach:

When my cruising friend and I were in San Diego, we took a long hard look at our mast and boom, went up and looked at them ourselves (after which we thought it looked dire), and then had a rigger go aloft and give us a second opinion. Since he said it wasn't as bad as we thought, we decided to forego doing it ourselves in the San Diego yard due to crazy prices (just to have our *mast* on the hard was $50 per day), and to wait until we got to the Chesapeake.

Then as we thought it over more - and since some of the sailing hardware on the boom was really incoveniently arranged - we thought we'd just do the boom, and get a feel for the process as we also made sail-handling more convenient.

Since we still didn't have workspace (living aboard), we took the boom to a commercial painting place for an estimate -- this was a place that painted lots of metal items. They quoted us $400 to paint the boom with Sterling LPU once we had all the hardware off and the holes filled - *much* less than the estimates provided by local boatyards.

We took photos of the both sides of the boom, and also made a sketch of the hardware locations. As we did this, we discussed how we'd rearrange, add, and subtract hardware, and figured out which of the holes we'd re-use and which we'd fill. Then we removed all the hardware (gee, so much quicker to type than to do!).

We had about a million other things going on, so we made the decision to have the painting place do the filling and sanding for an additional fee. This proved to be a mistake, because althought they did a wonderful job with the paint, they'd had a "new guy" do the fillling and fairing, and that was NOT done well. In the end they only charged us $300 for the paint job, and nothing for the filling. Since we were on a tight budget, and since you don't really see the boom that much (what with the hardware and lines breaking up the open surface, and the sailcover on much of the time), we accepted it. They also offered to re-do the whole job, but we we decided to keep it as it was.

Improving the hardware and layout on the boom sure did make for more pleasant sailing. We also made sure to isolate all the hardware from the mast as we reinstalled it, to reduce dissimilar-metal problems, and added things such as compression sleeves to the boom bail mounting bolts. It really was good to think through this part ourselves.

Okay, that was a bit long-winded. I guess all I *really* wanted to say was that another option might be to do some of the hardware removal/installation yourself; and/or to have it painted by a non-marine commercial outift.

--- Rachel

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Guys,


I thought I would chime in and say once again that Awlgrip is really the only way to go when painting a mast. I'm just finishing up my fourth "roll and tip" mast job in Snow White Awlgrip this weekend. It's a good sized job and runs in the 40 - 50 hour range to do it right. The masts I've done range in the 35 to 60 foot range.

The main trick I use to make sure I don't have any sags or runs -- I only paint one side at a time. I run a piece of 3M long mask silver masking tape offset on the front side of the mast when doing the first half of the topcoats. This offset leaves the first half at about 55 - 60 % of the total area. Just enough so that the sander won't scuff anything on the other side of the aluminum seam. I then sand the edge down and re-tape the front of the mast right on the seam in the aluminium. This leaves the tape line right in the seam on the finished mast and it is pretty much invisible. No need to seam the other side as the sail track forms a natural seam. Note : I don't do this with the primer -- only the topcoats. I do three to four topcoats per side. Takes about an hour each coat for a total of 6-8 hours for the finish topcoats. I let the mast dry a couple of days between coats. Remember to keep the mast clean clean clean before and during paint application to get that factory automotive grade finish.

The main reason that Awlgrip is the only way to go on a mast is that once it's done, it's done for good, is very tough, can be scrubbed, and it looks great. Products like Brightside scuff, lose their shine very quickly, and get chalky after a couple of years baking in the sun. You then get covered in white dust every time you go up the mast. After all this you are rewarded with having to paint the mast again. It's just not a good solution for a mast.

Even a "bad" Awlgrip job is much better that anything else you can do. Plus it's a good excuse to remove everything, replace all the stainless hardware with new stuff, re-tap holes, and re-thread everything with Durlac. Strong and safe!


Happy Painting,

George Jones

C&C 40 "Delphinus"
Wavelength 24 "Poco Loco"

Note : If you have access to spray equipment and an air fed paint suit that makes the whole process much simpler and less time consuming.

[catamount]

I would really like to thank everyone for their comments and advice.

My wife has pointed out to me that she's the one who does all the painting around our house.

Not that I couldn't do this job. But I don't have the mast sitting at home -- it's 450 miles away! And there are good reasons for getting the painting done now rather than waiting until I do have the mast at home.

As discussed in another thread, I've decided to go with the "complete package" in the Rigger's proposal, which includes full prep and painting of both mast and boom with Awlgrip.

Thanks again,