I am a new member to this great forum and first time boat owner of a recently purchased 1969 Bristol 29. As I figure out what I have gotten myself into with this boat, I appreciate the ability to tap into the knowledge many of you have. David Browne of the Bristol29 website has already fielded many of my questions. So here are my first questions (one that I see has been discussed quite a bit here already).
I want to repaint the topsides. Here is some background. There are a fair amount of dings, scratches and some gouges that I need to repair. The boat is in a yard in NH that doesn?t allow spraying (unfortunately I have a HVLP sprayer). Since I live in CT, I can only work weekends on the boat. I want to paint it a dark blue, flag blue type color. Besides the scratches, the topside paint is in decent condition. Not sure what type or the manufacturer. I am pretty handy, a woodworker, worked with fiberglass before but never painted topsides.
My questions are: What paint should I use, one part or two parts? Is this something I can or should do, without tenting the boat? Given I can only work weekends, how long should it take? Do I have to be worried about the coming cooler nights and dew up here in New England or should I want until next late spring? Where in NH or ME can I purchase Awlgrip, Alexseal or other brands. The usual on line retailers only seem to carry Interlux. What does it typically cost per gallon or quart? How much paint should I use? Do I need to use the same brand material for fixing the scratches and the paint or can I just use West or System Three?
I know with a dark color the hull preparation is critical and thanks to Tim?s and Nathan?s websites, I feel I have a pretty good understanding how to prep. Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated
Topside Painting Question
I just painted a boat. I am no pro, but my boat came out pretty good, better than I thought I could do. There are pics in the "projects" forum. You should be able to do the topsides in 4 days, it takes so long because you are waiting for coats to dry.
For an Alberg 30, I used slightly less than one quart of one-part paint per coat for the topsides, so you would probably use the same. You would probably be able to do three coats with 2 quarts. Two-part goes even further, allegedly.
I think you should look into rolling and tipping instead of spraying. I used one-part toplac, but you should look into using two-part if you really want the showroom gloss look. I used one-part because it was easier for a first-timer.
For filling dings, I used regular West System epoxy with light fairing filler. It was easy to sand down smooth once it dried.
After you fill the dings you want to wipe the hull with acetone or MEK, then with fiberglass prewash. THEN begin sanding.
One-part paints can be had for $25-$35 a quart from online vendors like www.defender.com, where I got mine. Two-part paints cost more. You will likely need a primer to conceal cracks. Make sure you use a one-part primer with one-part paint, or two-part epoxy primer with two-part paint. For a dark topside color you should probably use gray and not white primer.
I am sure others with more knowledge will drop in soon! Good luck, it is a lot of sanding, so make sure you get a decent palm sander and some 120-grit/220-grit sandpaper. You need finer grits for two-part paint.
For an Alberg 30, I used slightly less than one quart of one-part paint per coat for the topsides, so you would probably use the same. You would probably be able to do three coats with 2 quarts. Two-part goes even further, allegedly.
I think you should look into rolling and tipping instead of spraying. I used one-part toplac, but you should look into using two-part if you really want the showroom gloss look. I used one-part because it was easier for a first-timer.
For filling dings, I used regular West System epoxy with light fairing filler. It was easy to sand down smooth once it dried.
After you fill the dings you want to wipe the hull with acetone or MEK, then with fiberglass prewash. THEN begin sanding.
One-part paints can be had for $25-$35 a quart from online vendors like www.defender.com, where I got mine. Two-part paints cost more. You will likely need a primer to conceal cracks. Make sure you use a one-part primer with one-part paint, or two-part epoxy primer with two-part paint. For a dark topside color you should probably use gray and not white primer.
I am sure others with more knowledge will drop in soon! Good luck, it is a lot of sanding, so make sure you get a decent palm sander and some 120-grit/220-grit sandpaper. You need finer grits for two-part paint.
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Hi David, and welcome!
Here are some considerations:
1. What kind of a painter are you? Good painters get good results with any paint. Bad painters get bad results with any paint. The end result is less about the paint choice (though quality paints provide better results, all things being equal) and more about the painter's skill. The point here is that a skilled painter can get great results with the 2-part paints, but if you're uncomfortable with your painting skills you might be better off with the less expensive one-part paints. A careful beginner with inherent painting skill and a propensity to read and follow directions, can get outstanding results from Awlgrip or Alexseal, with brush and roller.
2. Should you worry about cooler nights and dew? Yes, absolutely, particularly the dew. You need to paint early in the day to ensure that the paint has time to cure before dewfall, or you'll haze the paint (or worse). The temperature is less important than the dew possibility, but of course these paints all have a working temperature range that should be adhered to.
Of course, you can't paint too early in the day either, as you may be dealing with last night's dew on the surface that must be dried first. Painting by 1000 or so would probably be OK, at least for the next several weeks. (In New England)
3. I would consider doing as much prepwork as you can now, as this work is much more adaptable to the coming fall weather. You might even get as far as initial primer coats, but I would wait on the topcoats until spring. I think you'll get better results then. But get started on the prep soon; this will give you much more time to complete the job. It won't hurt the primer to sit over the winter.
4. How long will this take, working weekends only? Well, it depends greatly. Using epoxy fillers requires about 24 hour cure times, so that can put a real stoppage on the work if not planned properly. There are many other preparation considerations that might apply. However, I believe it is feasible for you to do the prepwork in what remains of September and into October, before it starts getting too cold, and then finish up the primers and/or topcoats in the spring, say late April, early May at the latest. I believe this is a truly realistic schedule, rather than trying to force it all into only one of these short seasons.
5. You can use any epoxy of your choice for prepwork and fairing. Once you move into the final stages, though, stick with one paint system for primers, reducers, and topcoats.
6. I can provide you with Awlgrip and Alexseal products at wholesale cost plus 5%. Email me offline and I'll be happy to discuss quantities, product selection, and price. tim@lackeysailing.com
7. If the yard doesn't allow spraying, then you must roll and tip. Don't worry: if done correctly, you'll get outstanding results. The key is in technique, and particularly in proper reduction (thinning). Tenting could be good if you're in a high traffic area, or to avoid the problems that could arise thanks to wind or other weather considerations. It might also block the direct sunlight that will make your paint job much more difficult, so do consider a tent, if you can.
There's a lot more to it than just this, but at least this is a start! There are lots of things that can go wrong, but with careful planning and application, as well as meticulous prepwork you, or anyone, can get great results. Working outdoors in a yard definitely complicates things, but is by no means an insurmountable problem.
Remember that you can always sand down a bad coat and reapply an additional one. Yes, this can be highly irritating, but a lousy coat is by no means the end of the world. Regroup, and try again.
Hope this helps!
Here are some considerations:
1. What kind of a painter are you? Good painters get good results with any paint. Bad painters get bad results with any paint. The end result is less about the paint choice (though quality paints provide better results, all things being equal) and more about the painter's skill. The point here is that a skilled painter can get great results with the 2-part paints, but if you're uncomfortable with your painting skills you might be better off with the less expensive one-part paints. A careful beginner with inherent painting skill and a propensity to read and follow directions, can get outstanding results from Awlgrip or Alexseal, with brush and roller.
2. Should you worry about cooler nights and dew? Yes, absolutely, particularly the dew. You need to paint early in the day to ensure that the paint has time to cure before dewfall, or you'll haze the paint (or worse). The temperature is less important than the dew possibility, but of course these paints all have a working temperature range that should be adhered to.
Of course, you can't paint too early in the day either, as you may be dealing with last night's dew on the surface that must be dried first. Painting by 1000 or so would probably be OK, at least for the next several weeks. (In New England)
3. I would consider doing as much prepwork as you can now, as this work is much more adaptable to the coming fall weather. You might even get as far as initial primer coats, but I would wait on the topcoats until spring. I think you'll get better results then. But get started on the prep soon; this will give you much more time to complete the job. It won't hurt the primer to sit over the winter.
4. How long will this take, working weekends only? Well, it depends greatly. Using epoxy fillers requires about 24 hour cure times, so that can put a real stoppage on the work if not planned properly. There are many other preparation considerations that might apply. However, I believe it is feasible for you to do the prepwork in what remains of September and into October, before it starts getting too cold, and then finish up the primers and/or topcoats in the spring, say late April, early May at the latest. I believe this is a truly realistic schedule, rather than trying to force it all into only one of these short seasons.
5. You can use any epoxy of your choice for prepwork and fairing. Once you move into the final stages, though, stick with one paint system for primers, reducers, and topcoats.
6. I can provide you with Awlgrip and Alexseal products at wholesale cost plus 5%. Email me offline and I'll be happy to discuss quantities, product selection, and price. tim@lackeysailing.com
7. If the yard doesn't allow spraying, then you must roll and tip. Don't worry: if done correctly, you'll get outstanding results. The key is in technique, and particularly in proper reduction (thinning). Tenting could be good if you're in a high traffic area, or to avoid the problems that could arise thanks to wind or other weather considerations. It might also block the direct sunlight that will make your paint job much more difficult, so do consider a tent, if you can.
There's a lot more to it than just this, but at least this is a start! There are lots of things that can go wrong, but with careful planning and application, as well as meticulous prepwork you, or anyone, can get great results. Working outdoors in a yard definitely complicates things, but is by no means an insurmountable problem.
Remember that you can always sand down a bad coat and reapply an additional one. Yes, this can be highly irritating, but a lousy coat is by no means the end of the world. Regroup, and try again.
Hope this helps!
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Thank you all for replying. All advice is much appreciated.
George,
I saw your pics in the forum today; most impressive is such a short time. Why can't I get my wife and kids to help out? Doesn't everyone have the passion to sand!
Tim,
I would say my painting skill level is good. I'm a long time woodworker and have built kayaks and am building a Simmons Sea Skiff. All of my projects have included painting or staining. I'm not scared to work with 2-part, just concerned about painting outside in a yard and only on weekends. I really wanted my boat at my NH house so I could control the environment and spend a little more time working on it. But the boat hauler wouldn't attempt putting it in my yard and I had to scramble and quickly find a yard that would take me (I found out most yards resist accepting older boats). I agree with your suggestion about prepping it this fall and finish it in the spring. Takes the pressure off. I did notice that you have access to sell material at competitive prices; I'll be emailing you to inquire.
Figment,
We live in I work in CT but we have a second home in Rye, NH. It is where we are from. I have a mooring in Little Harbor in New Castle, NH (18 years on the waiting list). I thought about having the boat trucked to CT from where we bought it in Manchester, MA but it really added to the cost. I envy you guys that have it in your yard.
George,
I saw your pics in the forum today; most impressive is such a short time. Why can't I get my wife and kids to help out? Doesn't everyone have the passion to sand!
Tim,
I would say my painting skill level is good. I'm a long time woodworker and have built kayaks and am building a Simmons Sea Skiff. All of my projects have included painting or staining. I'm not scared to work with 2-part, just concerned about painting outside in a yard and only on weekends. I really wanted my boat at my NH house so I could control the environment and spend a little more time working on it. But the boat hauler wouldn't attempt putting it in my yard and I had to scramble and quickly find a yard that would take me (I found out most yards resist accepting older boats). I agree with your suggestion about prepping it this fall and finish it in the spring. Takes the pressure off. I did notice that you have access to sell material at competitive prices; I'll be emailing you to inquire.
Figment,
We live in I work in CT but we have a second home in Rye, NH. It is where we are from. I have a mooring in Little Harbor in New Castle, NH (18 years on the waiting list). I thought about having the boat trucked to CT from where we bought it in Manchester, MA but it really added to the cost. I envy you guys that have it in your yard.
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Wow! I'm amazed anyone is patient enough to last that long, and still want or need the mooring! Soon, it seems, one will have to start signing their kids up for moorings at birth, just to ensure a mooring space for adulthood.DavidL wrote:...18 years on the waiting list...
Next, what do you expect/envision for the end result? If you want the look and durability of the 2-parts, then nothing else will do. One parts look pretty good, but just don't end up looking the same in the end, and also don't last as long in as good shape. They are fine, perhaps even better than that, but if you long for the depth and shine of LPU, then that is the only choice.DavidL wrote:I would say my painting skill level is good...I'm not scared to work with 2-part...
That said, the choice is more complex than that, and there are certainly pros and cons to both choices. Everyone has their priorities, and those priorities make it more clear which choice you should take. My recommendation would be 2-part LPU, because I think the increase in cost is well justified in terms of performance and appearance. But there are downfalls as well, such as repairability; the higher cost of the materials also makes it hurt more if you make a mistake (or if something happens in the boatyard) and have to apply additional coats. I don't think this is a big deal because you'll probably have sufficient material on hand anyway.
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CharlieJ
- Wood Whisperer
- Posts: 649
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:42 pm
- Location: South coast of Texas, Matagorda Bay
Have to agree with Tim here. The job of repainting topsides is a big enough job that you certainly don't want to have to redo it in 3 or 4 years. I've done hulls with 2 part LPU that are now 6 years old, have had NO care and still look great. One small boat was painted and 3 years later was in an auto accident. That wrecked hull has been sitting outside the shop, completely uncared for for three years more now- If you wash off the dirt, the paint still shines.
The longevity alone is good enough reason to use the 2 parts.
The longevity alone is good enough reason to use the 2 parts.