Cockpit Drains

[Jeremy]

My cockpit drains consist of a small hole in each corner. The forward drains exit through glassed in tubes, to which the deck drains are also connected:

Forward drains:

Starboard drain tube:

Port drain tubes:


As you can see, also on the port side are two additional glassed-in tubes, previously for raw water and sink drain. The PO filled them in with thickened epoxy.

The aft port drains go through the bulkhead and drain into the lazarette (and thence through a one inch hole forward of the outboard well).



Water comes through them in following seas.

I recently bought four 1.5 inch Perko cockpit drains off Ebay (for the extraordinary price of $20 apiece).



So I'm thinking about for the aft drains, and filling in the existing drain holes and installing one of the new 1.5 inch drains in each corner. Something like this:



connected to two above-the-static-waterline through hulls in the counter (beneath the aft end of the cockpit sole (perhaps crossing the lines for more room).

Space is limited there, and I'm not sure there is sufficient room to also install seacocks.



For the forward drains, I'm thinking about either sealing them up (and depending solely on the two new larger aft drains), or installing the remaining two new drains to above-the-static-waterline through hulls (perhaps with seacocks; and perhaps with a T for the deck drains).

In any event, I'd like to cut out the old glassed-in tubes and properly fill the holes with new laminate.

So, among my questions: (1) anyone have any thoughts on this plan or wish to suggest alternatives; (2) am I crazy to install the drains without seacocks above the static (but not heeled) waterline; (3) can I do the hull patching entirely from within (I'm in the midst of painting the topsides, and may want to put the whole drain project off until next year, but would do the drains first if delaying would mess up the new topsides finish - current drain exit is below the raised waterline)

(bottom of primer to be bottom of bootstripe).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[Zach]

Advice:

Do all glass work now, and not later. Grin. Plastic up the boat, to protect your primer.

Flush mount the Perko drains:

Lay up some 1/4 inch thick fiberglass sheet, 2-3 inches larger diameter than the flange of the perko drain. Drill out the hole in your cockpit sole with a hole saw bigger than the flange of the perko drain. Epoxy the fiberglass sheet to the underside of the cockpit sole, let that kick. Take a smaller hole saw, and cut an opening large enough that the spigot on the drain will fit through.

If the drain is to close to the fiberglass tree (Grin) that is your current outlet for the hose after you install the sea cock... Fill those holes and move them further down. I would cut off the fiberglass trees off from the inside flush with either a sawzall or a mini-grinder with a metal cutting disc, as they scare me. Something heavy falls on one while sailing, it snaps... One less thing to think about with them gone.

Unless the cockpit drains aft, naturally while loaded... I would put the larger cockpit drains at the forward end of the sole. I'd move the aft drains up the face of the cockpit a bit, unless they are the dominant drains, so they are still there if you get swamped, but won't fully drain the cockpit on their own. Most boats nose down while sailing and going into a sea with water in the cockpit can turn into a wave pool.

Good luck,

Zach

[Jeremy]

Many thanks for the advice, Zach. Those sticks in the hull scare me too.

Why do you suggest moving the outlet further down? Perhaps better flow, but I'm hoping to minimize below-the-waterline holes in the boat.

The cockpit has an aftward bias, not too pronounced, but I would say the aft drains are dominant. Does that change your thinking at all?

[mitiempo]

Jeremy

One thought - how many inches between your cockpit sole and the at rest waterline?

You mention you may cross the drain hoses. This is normally done because otherwise the leeward drain will let water into the cockpit at an angle of heel.

I would always want a seacock on any through hull at or near the waterline.

[Zach]

If the boat drains aft, I would study the drain at the outboard well to see if a flap of rubber or a simple one way valve couldn't be installed so the water pressure of a following sea can't find its way back in. I'd try to decide if it is water pressure from the wave lifting the boat forcing water back through the system, or if the water level simply rises higher inside the outboard well than the cockpit drain causing it to drain back. If its water pressure it would make noise, like a snort, as the water shoots through and clears the air from the drain. If the water level is rising higher than the drain in the outboard well it would drool down hill.

If the water snorts, moving the drain outside the outboard well but not further forward will still have the same water pressure issues. To fix this, you'd have to run the drain line under the cockpit far enough under the cockpit forward that it isn't being lifted. The closer you get to the center of the boat the less pitching plays in to the equation. The ends, are not good for drains as the whole weight of the boat is trying to stay down while the wave goes up past it. The water doesn't stop, and can't be compressed so it accelerates through the path of least resistance... your drains. Just be glad its not the head, and you hit the wave while flushing...

If it is just the water level rising higher than the cockpit in the outboard well, you can move the drain outside the well.

Moving through hulls:

I'd study the arrangement, and decide to move them, not on account of flow, but installation ease.

If the drain and the seacock will be inline or close to inline, you might have to move the drains further down so you can install the hose after the drain and sea cock are installed. The length of the seacock, plus the nipple for the hose and stiffness of good reinforced hose often does not go back in the same place as the fiberglass tubes. You'll end up losing 6 or so inches of space to assemble everything.

Some times folks get frustrated and try to invent ways to install the hose using the same hole as the old drain by clamping the perko drain to the hose, sliding it down through the hole in the cockpit and clamping it to the seacock, then trying to jam the drain down flat in the bedding compound and set the screws. When this is done, the hose can't be replaced unless the system is disassembled, often the hose ends up needing to be replaced prematurely because it is strained on one side and kinks over time, and scares you when you go to take it apart in a few years, because where the kink is the hose collapses on the inside.

The time to glass the old hole in, and put the drain in a place that makes installing the hose easy is a lot less work and heart ache than assembling it in the old location and finding that the hose just won't go, particularly if the through hull is already bedded down at that point.

Good luck!

Zach

[CharlieJ]

Jeremy- I had a three paragraph post all typed and it went away, leaving me looking at a Gary Jobson advertisment.,

Give me a call- three six one, two 3 seven, 999 zero, and I'll talk to you about the cockpit drains on Tehani, my Meridian 25, cause it takes me too bloody long to re type!!!!!

[seasailor55]

I ran into a similar problem on a Cape Dory 22 two weeks ago. The existing bronze cockpit drains are set verically, flush with the floor of the cockpit, but the seacocks and thru-hulls are installed at an angle following the hull's contours and slightly aft of the drain centerlines. What at first seemed like a simple hose replacement job became an exercise in contorsion trying to get the 1-1/2" hose to transition from vertical to a 30 degree angle without kinking. I want to keep the boat as original as possible, but it sure would have been easier if the cockpit drains had a hose connection that more closely matched the seacock orientation. Ah well, sometimes you get what you get when restoring an old boat.

[mitiempo]

For cockpit drains I always use a non-kinking hose - sink drains as well.