Painting plastic laminate
- preserved_killick
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 am
- Boat Name: Seagrass
- Boat Type: Alberg 30
- Location: NH
- Contact:
Painting plastic laminate
Hi everyone,
I've just finished sanding the interior of my Alberg 30, and discovered faux-woodgrain plastic laminate on the bulkheads under the old paint.
I'm planning on re painting if the rain ever stops. My original plan was to use an Interlux primer under Interlux Yacht Enamel. However, I'm concerned with adhesion to the plastic laminate so the new plan is to use Zinsser's Shellac-Base Primer-Sealer on the laminate surfaces.
Has anyone come across anything that sticks better to plastic surfaces than the shellac BIN? I'm wondering if any of the epoxy primers would be a better bet (better enough to justify the extra cost and fuss).
http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/Pa ... 4286890306
-Jeff
I've just finished sanding the interior of my Alberg 30, and discovered faux-woodgrain plastic laminate on the bulkheads under the old paint.
I'm planning on re painting if the rain ever stops. My original plan was to use an Interlux primer under Interlux Yacht Enamel. However, I'm concerned with adhesion to the plastic laminate so the new plan is to use Zinsser's Shellac-Base Primer-Sealer on the laminate surfaces.
Has anyone come across anything that sticks better to plastic surfaces than the shellac BIN? I'm wondering if any of the epoxy primers would be a better bet (better enough to justify the extra cost and fuss).
http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/Pa ... 4286890306
-Jeff
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- Master of the Arcane
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
- Boat Name: Quetzal
- Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
We started with a previously unpainted formica/melamine. Wiped down with lacquer thinner. Painted with alkyd white. No adhesion problems.
I think just about any type of paint would be content to stick to clean, dulled or non-gloss formica. And I don't think you need worry overmuch about primers; melamine's a nice, uniform, stable substrate. Look up the instructions for painting MDO (medium density overlay, for signage etc.); it's the same stuff. The choice would depend upon your judgement of longevity, cleanability, and mildew resistance.
I think just about any type of paint would be content to stick to clean, dulled or non-gloss formica. And I don't think you need worry overmuch about primers; melamine's a nice, uniform, stable substrate. Look up the instructions for painting MDO (medium density overlay, for signage etc.); it's the same stuff. The choice would depend upon your judgement of longevity, cleanability, and mildew resistance.
I should add: Wow, that is quite the thorough sanding job! Nice!
Now that you're really experienced, what tools, attachment, and/or sandpaper ended up being your "favorites"? (I know, I know, you're rolling your eyes at that concept.)
I was waiting to see if anyone else would reply on the Zinsser product, because I only really have a half-answer. That is that I didn't think shellac was so hot on a boat, because it's not very water resistant. That said, this may be modified, and also it might not be so important if you're going to be painting over it.
But, like Quetzalsailor, I believe there would be other primers that would work well. You probably already know this, but Interlux has a good tech help line (of course they'll recommend an Interlux product, but it might be useful information). They're at www.yachtpaint.com
Rachel
Now that you're really experienced, what tools, attachment, and/or sandpaper ended up being your "favorites"? (I know, I know, you're rolling your eyes at that concept.)
I was waiting to see if anyone else would reply on the Zinsser product, because I only really have a half-answer. That is that I didn't think shellac was so hot on a boat, because it's not very water resistant. That said, this may be modified, and also it might not be so important if you're going to be painting over it.
But, like Quetzalsailor, I believe there would be other primers that would work well. You probably already know this, but Interlux has a good tech help line (of course they'll recommend an Interlux product, but it might be useful information). They're at www.yachtpaint.com
Rachel
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- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
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- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:31 pm
- Boat Name: Paper Moon
- Boat Type: Luders 33 (Allied Boat Co.)
- Location: Mystic CT
How about Pettit Dura-White. While I have never used it, friends have and got great results. It appears that boat interiors, including laminate, are what it is designed for.
http://www.pettitpaint.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=52
http://www.pettitpaint.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=52
Cheers
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
- preserved_killick
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 am
- Boat Name: Seagrass
- Boat Type: Alberg 30
- Location: NH
- Contact:
Rachel wrote:I should add: Wow, that is quite the thorough sanding job! Nice!
Now that you're really experienced, what tools, attachment, and/or sandpaper ended up being your "favorites"? (I know, I know, you're rolling your eyes at that concept.)
I was waiting to see if anyone else would reply on the Zinsser product, because I only really have a half-answer. That is that I didn't think shellac was so hot on a boat, because it's not very water resistant. That said, this may be modified, and also it might not be so important if you're going to be painting over it.
But, like Quetzalsailor, I believe there would be other primers that would work well. You probably already know this, but Interlux has a good tech help line (of course they'll recommend an Interlux product, but it might be useful information). They're at www.yachtpaint.com
Rachel
Thanks Rachel,
Most of the work was done with 40 grit on a 5 inch disk. Then a quick once over with 80 grit and 120. I used GatorGrit disks found at Lowes and was impressed at how long each lasts. I also used that Norton -wire-wheel thing on the woven roving.
You know, for the shellac, I was under the same impression. I remember leaving rings when a glass of water left on a shellac covered surface, but Hamilton Marine has a copy of an article from Febuary 08 Wooden Boat Magazine regarding the use of shellac. I can't find the actual article on line, but found a second hand quote:
"(on treating end grain) Herreshoff boats, many which were double planked were so treated and after 70 to 80 years there is NO ROT !! U.S. Dept of Agriculture calculate that three coats of Shellac are 87% effective against the movement of water vapour into or out of wood, compared with 73% for varnish and 21% for Linseed Oil. Shellac effectiveness as a moisture barrier as well as its resistance to oil make it excellent as a sealer.Shellac dries in minutes. "
This made me think I'm underestimating shellac. I've used it extensively in my house as a primer..though my house stays relatively dry.
For a primer, I went against my gut feeling yesterday and bought a ridiculously expensive Interlux Pre-Kote primer. Even though I expect any good quality alkyd primer would work well with the Interlux Yacht Paint, the fear that some odd incompatibility issue would surface six months out did me in. I think I'll test the primer on a small section of the plastic laminate for adhesion first.
You noticed the work on the sole! Actually, those aren't sanding blocks, or high traction flooring boards, they are Interlix Flooring Adhesive Helpers #5678 designed and tested to work perfectly with Interlix Sub-Kote Sole Stiker. It can be bought at any Marine store. I know it looks like a cinder block, but each one is hand crafted from a secret composite blend of materials. I didn't mind paying $75 each. I figure I can re-use them for other projects.
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- Wood Whisperer
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- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:42 pm
- Location: South coast of Texas, Matagorda Bay
I don't know if this is the Zinsser primer you mean, but the Gougeons used it in a test of painting over epoxy and liked it.
http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/15/pdf/primertest.pdf
Also, Laura attended a class recently with a paint rep (NOT from Zinsser) who spoke highly of the Zinsser Bulls-eye 1-2-3 primer. Claimed it FAR superior to stuff like Kilz.
In the furniture refinishing business, we often used shellac as a sealer to lock away certain stains prior to painting. It will prevent them from "bleeding through". In fact, it was a staple in our arsenal of tricks of the trade.
http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/15/pdf/primertest.pdf
Also, Laura attended a class recently with a paint rep (NOT from Zinsser) who spoke highly of the Zinsser Bulls-eye 1-2-3 primer. Claimed it FAR superior to stuff like Kilz.
In the furniture refinishing business, we often used shellac as a sealer to lock away certain stains prior to painting. It will prevent them from "bleeding through". In fact, it was a staple in our arsenal of tricks of the trade.
- preserved_killick
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 am
- Boat Name: Seagrass
- Boat Type: Alberg 30
- Location: NH
- Contact:
CharlieJ,
I was thinking of this stuff:
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=10
I too have used it to seal out knots in wood, stains ect. It's worked great for me on everything so far. I can personally attest that it sticks very well to smooth surfaces such as glass & tile.
I do often wonder why they claim "For interior and spot exterior use".
-Jeff
I was thinking of this stuff:
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=10
I too have used it to seal out knots in wood, stains ect. It's worked great for me on everything so far. I can personally attest that it sticks very well to smooth surfaces such as glass & tile.
I do often wonder why they claim "For interior and spot exterior use".
-Jeff
- Peter
- Boat Obsession Medal Finalist
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- Boat Name: Pagan
- Boat Type: Albin Ballad 30
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I swear by this stuff for interior finishing.
It stands up very well .... no peeling or flaking, it seems to bond to almost anything, and cleans easily.
It stands up very well .... no peeling or flaking, it seems to bond to almost anything, and cleans easily.
I knew I'd be hearing trumpets in this thread before too long ;)CharlieJ wrote:Yep- another Acrylic latex. I've been trumpeting those for years now.
(I've seen the paint inside Charlie and Laura's Tehani, and it is quite nice.)
I've been debating whether to comment on the Pettit Dura-White. I used it to paint the inside of my 17-footer, and I remember being rather unimpressed.
The reason I hesitated is that it's been so long (that was 1998 or so) that my memory is not crystal clear on why I didn't like it. I did look at the product data on their site now, and while it does say water-based, I didn't see where it specified "acrylic" or not. Maybe I should just say that I would check it out before using it. In general, I've been a fan of Pettit products.
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- Wood Whisperer
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- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:42 pm
- Location: South coast of Texas, Matagorda Bay
Rachel- third paragraph down on the referenced site- here's a cut and paste-
"PERMA-WHITE® is made from PREMIUM LATEX ACRYLIC RESINS ( emphasis mine-CJ) to produce a washable, blister-proof, and stain-resistant finish. It is self-priming and will adhere to any sound surface. It bonds to existing oil base or glossy paints – even Formica® and ceramic tile – without sanding. PERMA-WHITE® also seals flat paint, new drywall, cement block and concrete. It is ideal for bathrooms, basements, locker rooms, laundry rooms, hotel guest rooms, kitchens, closets, etc - any area where conditions of persistent high humidity, frequent temperature changes and poor air circulation may promote mold and mildew growth and cause deterioration of the paint film."
Sounds like it's quite like the Sherwin Williams Incredi-Coat we used in Tehani. I don't often mention the brand anymore because I found out Sherwin Williams only sells that paint in Texas and Louisiana- who knows why that is!!!
"PERMA-WHITE® is made from PREMIUM LATEX ACRYLIC RESINS ( emphasis mine-CJ) to produce a washable, blister-proof, and stain-resistant finish. It is self-priming and will adhere to any sound surface. It bonds to existing oil base or glossy paints – even Formica® and ceramic tile – without sanding. PERMA-WHITE® also seals flat paint, new drywall, cement block and concrete. It is ideal for bathrooms, basements, locker rooms, laundry rooms, hotel guest rooms, kitchens, closets, etc - any area where conditions of persistent high humidity, frequent temperature changes and poor air circulation may promote mold and mildew growth and cause deterioration of the paint film."
Sounds like it's quite like the Sherwin Williams Incredi-Coat we used in Tehani. I don't often mention the brand anymore because I found out Sherwin Williams only sells that paint in Texas and Louisiana- who knows why that is!!!
I read that and instantly wondered why I've been slaving away painting my bilge with epoxy primer (and soon to be Bilgekote). It sounds amazing!
Okay, I'm half joking as it's probably not the best paint for a place that may see fuel or oil, but it sure sounds good for everything else, doesn't it.
The Perma-White talks so much about how it's good for damp, humid places that I could see why they sell something (similar) like Incredicoat in Texas and Louisiana, but that doesn't explain why not in Florida, Mississippi, etc. Odd.
Okay, I'm half joking as it's probably not the best paint for a place that may see fuel or oil, but it sure sounds good for everything else, doesn't it.
The Perma-White talks so much about how it's good for damp, humid places that I could see why they sell something (similar) like Incredicoat in Texas and Louisiana, but that doesn't explain why not in Florida, Mississippi, etc. Odd.