Need Help Disassembling Merriman #1 Winch

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:38 pm

I have looked far and wide on the Internet for a solution to my challenge. I’m feeling like Richard III in need of a horseshoe nail.

I am currently restoring a 1967 Kittiwake, and desire to revitalize the primary winches that came with the vessel. I am making the assumption that they are Merriman #1 winches. They are both bronze, with a base diameter of approximately 3”. The winch drum is comprised of two parts; the first being the drum itself upon which a line is wrapped, and the second part being a cylinder that revolves independently of the winch drum and into which a flat winch handle is placed. Perpendicular to the slots for the winch handle, and in line above the pawls, are grooves with no apparent mechanism. A trident circumscribed with a circle and a number one (1) is stamped on the top of the winch drum. I have easily removed the top cover. Now I am confronted with removing the square pawls connected by a short spring. The pawls are ¼” on each side. Provided that I am looking at a Merriman #1 winch, the RigRite web site describes replacement pawls as being ¾” long. Beneath the pawls/spring assembly is a clearly evident slotted screw head that is apparently used to remove the entire assembly from the winch base.

Using a pair of needle-nosed Vise-Grips, at a variety of locations throughout the revolution of the winch, I have very nearly been able to retract the upper pawls from the housing. I have failed to meet with any success in disassembling the winches.

Do any of you know the secret to unlocking this puzzle, and successfully disassembling this winch? How do I do it?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:32 am

Welcome to the forum! Kittiwake... Mmm, pretty. Please feel free to post photos of your boat (and projects) :)

Here are a few threads that might help, for starters:

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... iman+winch

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... iman+winch

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... iman+winch

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:36 am

Rachel:

Thank you for your quick response. I look forward to posting photos and descriptions of the work involved in bringing my Kittiwake back once I master some of the nuances of the web technology. I have been an avid fan of this site for more than a year. You and the other members of the forum have taught me an enormous amount, for which I am very grateful.

I followed your links to the other threads in the forum, which I had previously viewed. The photos of a disassembled #2, posted by #218 on Mon May 28, 2007 10:21 pm in the “Typical Merriman No. 2?” thread are probably good representations of the winch base and winch drum used in the #1, yet do not depict the upper cylinder in which the upper pawls are positioned. Jetstream’s posting of Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:55 am in the Classified thread entitled “Wanted: Merriman winch.” shows a picture of the Merriman Bros. logo, confirming the manufacturer of my winches. Tim, on Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:28 am in the “South Coast Winch” thread, gives a helpful description of how to disassemble the #2 winch, or the #1 – once the #1 upper pawls are removed.

Additionally, there is a post where Tim begins to answer the mystery of the #1 upper pawls in the “Winches” thread on Fri May 02, 2003, even going to far as to have one on his desk. Sadly, “Starlight” didn’t follow up to Tim’s inquiry, and the issue was dropped.

Thus, while I greatly appreciate your taking the effort to respond, I am still confronted with the mystery of removing the upper pawls.

The link below shows a picture of the winch in question:

http://www.headwayassociates.com/merriman%20winch.htm

Thank you for your help.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:39 pm

Well, no-one can say you hadn't researched the archives! Sorry that my info was a repeat (and that I wrongly assumed you had not previously searched).

It's good to have you here; glad you posted, and I can't wait to see your Kittiwake, and the projects thereon :)

Rachel[/i]

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:50 pm

Rachel:

Again, I truly appreciate your contribution to resolving the mystery. Also, having read as much of this forum as I have, I know you to be helpful, good natured, and worthy of respect for your boating endeavors.

Perhaps others in the group may have faced this mystery and come up with a solution?

I would be most grateful.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:19 am

Is the winch handle the kind with the forked end?

If so, use it as a screwdriver for that large under-screw. The fork should straddle over the pawls and be able to engage the slot of the screw.

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:15 am

Figment:

Brilliant! I will scrounge around for the handle, try your idea - provided its forked - and circle back.

Thank you.

David · Post by **David** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:31 am

I believe you must first remove the paw spring and slip the paws out. Then you have room to remove the large slotted screw and the winch will pull off the base.

David

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:36 am

David:

What's your secret for removing the upper pawls?

Mine don't seem to "slip out."

David · Post by **David** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:44 am

Have you removed the spring?

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:15 pm

David:

I can remove the spring, but will need to get back to the boat tomorrow to scrounge for the winch handle. A key or a kitchen knife ain't enough to take out the central screw. With the removal of the spring, the upper pawls spread apart wide enough to match the width of the central screw below.

More to come....

David · Post by **David** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:18 pm

With the spring out, try turning the winch drum so the paw are in the exteneded--outward-- position. then you should have enough clearance to slip them out one at a time. Once they are out remove the screw cap and the drum should pull off.

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:14 am

David:

At your suggestion, I removed the spring, and attempted to remove the upper pawls. No luck.

Irrespective of the relative position of the pawls and the under lying "screw", the pawls do not want to come out.

Additionally, the "screw" may actually be integral to the winch base. The locking winch handle that fits the winch perfectly does not fit in the recess for the "screw". I even went so far as to use a 1/2" chisel like a screw driver. Needless to say, I am still scratching my head.

Of note is that the upper part of the winch, into which the upper pawls and winch handle are attached, appears to extend down into the winch below the "screw" and the winch drum.

I still welcome thoughts...

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Can you possibly post photo(s) of what you're working on? For one thing, after reading through this thread, I'd love to see what you're talking about. More importantly, perhaps someone (else) could offer some help once they see it.

Rachel

David · Post by **David** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:45 pm

meubcr wrote:David:

At your suggestion, I removed the spring, and attempted to remove the upper pawls. No luck.

Irrespective of the relative position of the pawls and the under lying "screw", the pawls do not want to come out.

Additionally, the "screw" may actually be integral to the winch base. The locking winch handle that fits the winch perfectly does not fit in the recess for the "screw". I even went so far as to use a 1/2" chisel like a screw driver. Needless to say, I am still scratching my head.

Of note is that the upper part of the winch, into which the upper pawls and winch handle are attached, appears to extend down into the winch below the "screw" and the winch drum.

I still welcome thoughts...

There used to be a number of Merriman / Southcoast style winches so yours may be different. I had two bronze Merriman's (with the Trident) on the mast of my Bristol until a few years ago when I replaced them. They looked identical to the one in the photo you provided. Like yours, mine were both missing the paw cover cap and the paws and spring were exposed to the elements.

On my winches, the paws were not as long as they appear to be on your winch and when the paws were extended the spring was a good 1/2" or longer. As a matter of fact the spring was so elongated when the paws were extended that I always feared the springs would fall out--they never did.

To remove the winches, I removed the spring and slid the paws inward with a pair of needle nose pliers. Once the two paws were out, the big cap screw was backed off with a oversized screwdriver. The cap screw under the paws held the winch top in place--the screw is threaded into the center of the winch base axle. Remove the top and the drum slips off the axle. The bottom of the drum had two round paws that slipped vertically into a ring of rounded holes.

Yours maybe different, but it sure looks the same.

Good luck,

David

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:38 pm

David:

In light of your confidence, and the fact that the two sets of winches so closely match, I am going to move on to a vise, pipe wrench, more WD-40, and get myself an over sized screwdriver. I still have the old caps to cover the pawl well, though I removed them for the photo.

Based on your recollection, could the winch drum, upper pawls, and that top cyclinder into which the handle is placed be removed as a single assembly?

Another alternative is to order a set of pawls and springs from RigRite, and drill out the old pawls. Any new pawls could then be ground down if required.

I really appreciate your helpful suggestions.

David · Post by **David** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:02 pm

<<Based on your recollection, could the winch drum, upper pawls, and that top cyclinder into which the handle is placed be removed as a single assembly? >>

No. the top comes off. Then you can remove the drum. I don't believe the top cylinder, where the handle slips thru can be connected to the winch drum, since the "top" needs to rotate counter clockwise to allow you to "crank" the winch clockwise adn tighten the halyard. That's what the top paws do: allow the top to turn counter clockwise but "catch" and force the drum to turn clockwise. the vertical pin paws in the drum that slip down into the ring of holes in the base allow the drum to turn clockwise but catch and prevent it from turning counter clockwise.

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:32 pm

David:

I can certainly understand your interpretation of my last post. Let me try again, differently.

Below are the images posted by #218 on Mon May 28, 2007 10:21 pm that may prove helpful to the discussion:

From what I gather in these images, the winch base supports both the winch drum and the "top cylinder". Both the drum and top cylinder are held in place on the base via the "screw". If the pictures accurately depict my mysterious winch, then the pawls actually rest into the notches of the drum, while passing through the top cylinder. If such is the case, then removing the pawls may not be necessary to dissassemble and pack the winch - the ultimate goal.

The winches are in good shape, except for the need to be repacked and polished up. I hate the thought of not being able to use them, and of course being defeated.

Thank you, again, David.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:33 pm

Oh for heaven's sake - how did I miss that you'd already linked to photos?

Ignore me!

Sheesh.

Rachel

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:01 pm

Rachel:

You didn't miss a thing. I'm merely learning the technology.

BTW, the previous link takes you to this photo:

meubcr · Post by **meubcr** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:13 pm

David:

I have looked over your experience removing the Merriman winches from your mast. Perhaps thereing lies the key.

What was/is your favorite solvent for unfreezing bronze, stainless, and/or aluminum?

David · Post by **David** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:37 pm

The winches came off the bases with no problems at all. Now the machine screws into the mast were a different story. I used BP Blaster over several days and that mostly did it.

David