Conditon of Mast

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:53 pm

I have been looking at my 48 year old mast and have the following concerns:

There is corrosion on the mast under the location of the spreaders. It is pitted and I am not sure if it is a concern for strength. (I will post a picture of this, but need some info on how to do this on this site)

There is a bend in the mast (to the side) about 1/3 of the distance from the top. It looks like it is about 4 or 5 degrees. Is this a concern?

I have to replace all of my standing and running rigging and wonder if I should consider replacing the mast as well.

Thanks for your replies,

Stephen

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:11 pm

Please read this thread for information on posting photos here:

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=552

If you need additional assistance, just email me directly and I'll help in more detail. There's an email link at the bottom of this message.

Photos sound important to help determine what your course of action should be, based on your description.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:52 pm

Thanks Tim. I will organise the pictures and send them to you tonight.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:37 am

These are the pictures of the mast:

The crack at the bottom.

Below the spreader base.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:43 am

Spreader hole.

Bend in mast.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:51 am

Hey Tim....I thought I would load the pictures myself. Your instructions work well - thanks.

Ronin120 · Post by **Ronin120** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:03 pm

Stephen,

I'm sure others may say the same but it seems to me that if you're going to the trouble and expense to replace running and standing rigging you may want to consider replacing the mast itself given what appears to it's condition as shown in the photos.

There are ways to 'correct' most of those problems without replacing the mast section in entirety. What gives me pause though is that fairly serious bend that I think I see in the photo. If you can't keep your mast in column you're going to be at some risk for a failure down the road.

You could check the condition of the spreaders and spreader bases. If they are in good condition then you could buy a new mast section and mount those up to it along with your new rigging.

I've had to do a fair amount of rigging replacement on my boat in the past and have always felt confident that the money was well spent. The run-on effects of a rig coming down can sometimes be fairly expensive. And dangerous.

Whether or not you replace the mast you should probably test it with a multimeter when you have it in place. It seems to me from the photos that over time there's probably been some unhelpful current flow. Of course, not a whole lot goes 48 years without some aging...

You might even consider replacing it with a nice carbon-fiber mast and saving a few pounds aloft... <grin>

Best.

suntreader · Post by **suntreader** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

That bend is pretty serious and not something easily correctable. Think about the mast being in compression along its length; if you sight along the mast from one end you will see that instead of the whole thing being aligned along that compression only one wall is with the other bowing out. If the spar flexes into much more of a bend then there will be nothing supporting the compression load other than the flexural strength of the extrusion. Then the spar goes over and there is the wailing and the crying that follows.

The corrosion is significant as well, enough that combined with that gnarly bend I would replace the spar. The crack at the base could be fixed, the pitting at the spreader isn't so bad that its going to fail next season, but all in all I think you're right in thinking its time for a new mast.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:51 pm

Certainly the bend is something to consult a rigger about.

As for the crack at the base and the the corrosion at the spreaders, those I think are actually less serious, or at least more easily repaired.

Re the crack at the base: if the mast shoe were out of the mast, I'd be more concerned, but that cast aluminum mast shoe has welded itself to the extruded aluminum mast and is keeping things together down there. If you wanted, you could replace the shoe (have fun getting it out!) and have that crack welded by a competent aluminum welder.

Re the corrosion at the spreaders: to fix this, I would use layers of epoxy, built up to the surounding thickness. You will need to properly treat the aluminum with a etcher before applying epoxy. I'm guessing that there was a stainless spreader bracket attached there. That bracket may be just enough to cover up your epoxy repair without requiring you to paint the epoxy to protect it from UV.

I would not be concerned about stray current here. The corrosion is simply the result of 40 years worth of dissimilar metals coming into contact with each other. Yes, extruded aluminum is dissimilar enough to cast aluminum to cause corrosion.

Of course, you may decide that a new mast will be less hassle...

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:45 pm

Setting aside for a moment all the issues that you've noticed yourself, I'd suggest you also carefully check all the aluminum castings, in particular the spreader bases, spreader tips, and jumper strut base assemblies (unless you have a mast head rig). The old castings tend to be of poor quality, crumbly, and often hide significant weaknesses. To a lesser extent, this also includes the masthead and base castings.

What is the general location of the kink that begins the bend? Are there any hard spots, wrinkles, cracks, or other signs of severe stresses there? Is it located at the hounds, or elsewhere? Any idea how the bend came to be there? Is it something you can easily straighten by hand, or is it more of a kinked thing that doesn't simply disappear when you push the masthead in the opposite direction? Kinks are bad; gentle bends that push out with easy hand pressure can be corrected with rig tuning. Unfortunately, yours looks "kinkier".

I'm not too concerned about what I see in terms of the corrosion beneath the spreader bases. But clean up the area and inspect things carefully to ensure that there's plenty of sound material remaining in the mast wall. What you're showing, though, looks pretty typical for what one would expect to find beneath those nasty old water-trapping aluminum spreader bases that you took off.

I don't much like cracks in spars, but something like that at the base isn't necessarily the kiss of death. If nothing else, drill a small hole right at the apex of the crack to prevent it from spreading further.

When in doubt, consult a rigging expert, preferably one who can and will look at the situation first hand. The rig's not a good place for guesswork.

Good luck.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:13 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

I will have to replace the spreaders and jumpers. Some pieces are broken and there is lots of corrosion.

The kink is about 6 feet above the spreaders. I believe it may have happened when the boat was dismasted at the marina - as the previous owner told me. I do not see any crinkles and when I run my hand along both sides of the extrusion I do not detect any obvious deformation.

I can push the mast directly opposite the kink and straighten it with moderate pressure - this is with both mast ends supported so they don't move. When I look down the mast when pressure is applied (with a helper) to bring the kinked area to the center line I can see that the mast straightens, but some of the areas above and below the kink move out of alignment. This is kinda hard to explain clearly - Perhaps I should take another photo.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:43 pm

Am I the only one troubled by the cracks forming at the spreader base bolt holes?

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:56 pm

I didn't notice that crack right away, but it doesn't look real happy. One more check mark in the negative column. A crack at an area of the mast that's under constant compression and other dynamic loading seems like a harbinger of doom.

I think I understand what you're saying about how the mast moves above the bent area when pressure is applied. The fact that other areas of the mast are changing their alignment in odd ways when you "straighten" the main kink suggests to me that the spar is physically kinked (even if you can't specifically see it), not just bent, which prevents it from properly straightening into column. Not a good sign.

Given all the issues here, including your need for new spreaders and jumpers, it's getting closer and closer to the new spar place. At some point, it's just not worth messing around with old stuff.

If it were me, I'd be ditching the old and getting something new, modern, and superior. This assumes that the cost of a new spar and appurtenances is within whatever you feel you have available to spend. But then no one ever said I was sane.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:03 pm

What the boat wants, the boat gets.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:23 pm

The mast is doomed for about a buck a pound. Or maybe I can think of somthing to weld out of it. It's not anodized is it?

I had a real close look at all of the spreader holes and there is another hole cracked and another that is suspect (that's three cracks). Good eye Figment - I also did not see them at first.

I made contact with Seldon Spars and sent them all the technical info on the Triton, including the new sail on the bowsprit. I wasn't sure if I needed a new mast, but wanted to collect some information. A new mast with running rigging runs about $9 grand plus another 2-3 g's for shipping. Does that sound right? Hmmmm....at this point I'm thinking "good used" is the way to go.

I would like to not have to buy another stick......yes...What the boat wants, the boat gets. Perhaps, what I will get is peace of mind.

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:51 pm

Someone listed a mast a little while ago... There it is.

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3164

Maybe you could make this one work?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:09 pm

...on the Triton, including the new sail on the bowsprit...

Whoa! did I miss something? Bowsprit? What sort of rig do you have there?

-Britton

catamount · Post by **catamount** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:37 am

Triton 185 wrote: A new mast with running rigging runs about $9 grand plus another 2-3 g's for shipping. Does that sound right? Hmmmm....at this point I'm thinking "good used" is the way to go.

For your 9 to 12 grand, you could buy a whole 'nother boat and throw it all away except for the mast...

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:32 am

For your 9 to 12 grand, you could buy a whole 'nother boat and throw it all away except for the mast...

Ya....that's about 9 to 12 times what I paid for her.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:41 am

Whoa! did I miss something? Bowsprit? What sort of rig do you have there?

Hi Britton,

I am adding a 42" bowsprit with about a 250 sq ft sail. It will be sort of like Souberette. The sprit will have whiskers and a bob stay and a simple anchor roller assembly. I will turn the spar out of laminated sitka spruce. The original forestay will go to the stem or slightly aft (I haven't decided on this yet)

Post by **Tim** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:47 am

$9,000+ sounds a little high to me for a Triton spar. And the shipping charge seems abundant too. Do a little shopping around, at a minimum to determine how accurate any single quote is. Spars are best made as locally as possible because of the shipping challenges, but that may not be an option where you are. Still, masts are moved across the highways all the time.

Other sparmaker options: Dwyer Spars, Zephyr Spars, Ballenger Spars. Of course there are others out there as well.

Unfortunately, Metalmast Marine has disbanded, though the two main characters are still in the custom hardware business.

I paid $6500 for a brand-new tapered, painted mast and boom for the Triton Daysailor from Metalmast; this cost included mast-mounted running lights, internal halyard sheaves, aerofoil spreaders, custom jumpers, and other features, and also included bringing it from CT to ME. Standing rigging, including all fittings and having the rigger on hand on launch day to make up the final lengths as required for this custom job, cost $1000. Running rigging was inconsequential in the scheme of things; I bought a spool of line for all that boat's running rigging needs, but don't recall its cost at the moment.

I was going to semi-jokingly recommend earlier that you buy a derelict Triton for next to nothing and use its spar. This idea may bear serious consideration, and it wouldn't be the first time someone bought a second Triton just for the parts. For that matter, any generally-compatible spar section can be used and cut to length as needed.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:12 am

Seems to me that the bend is the killer problem. Pretty hard to support the mast from collapsing at the points of straightening pressure application; halfway up is not convenient.

The corrosion damage is probably worse than shown in the pictures but both the spreader bases and the foot are readily repaired by doublers and welding.

The mast is certainly anodized and the welding will ruin the anodizing within a couple inches (the metal expands with heat and the anodizing itself does not; you'll see crazing, and of course there'll be none left where the metal melted at the weld). Painting the mast will sidestep that problem, given that from a practical standpoint reanodizing is probably out of the question; it's easy enough to have it done if there's a handy anodizer with a big enough tank. (I had my Morgan 27 boom reanodized, as well as the step casting.)

Lots of step castings are available (snoop the web); additionally you can have one made up out of flatstock in aluminum or stainless. You can shorten the mast up past the corrosion and make a tall maststep (Looked pretty odd, but I've seen a Columbia 57 with a 14" tall stainless maststep). You can shim the maststep up on filler pieces; I used fiberglass blocks, heard of Starboard blocks. The mast on our NE 38 is doubled for the bottom 20" or so.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:21 am

I have seen drawings of Tritons with bow sprits that look pretty good. The best seem to be those that keep the shroud on the bowsprit parallel with the original and attached at the masthead. One of the problems with this setup is that the jumper struts will interfere with the forward sail when sheeted in tight.

With the current issues with your mast, now might be a great time to change to a masthead rig as well.

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:18 pm

The additional stay eliminates the need for the jumpers.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:31 pm

I have, perhaps a dumb question/idea...

Could the mast be cut on either side of the bend, and sleeved back together without butting... or heck, even just sleeved over at the bend? Some of the fancy racers have sleeves connecting the tapered mast sections to the extrusion. Probably would introduce some funny stresses, but if hand pressure will straighten it... what happens if its held that way drilled and popriveted so the sleeve holds it in column?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:56 pm

The additional stay eliminates the need for the jumpers.

Oh yeah...

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:12 pm

Do a little shopping around, at a minimum to determine how accurate any single quote is. Spars are best made as locally as possible because of the shipping challenges, but that may not be an option where you are.

It is about a 12 hour drive for me to the Vancouver/Seattle area. Does anyone know of a mast manufacturer that has a factory in this area? Thanks for the names of these other companies Tim.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:19 pm

The additional stay eliminates the need for the jumpers.

I was told by one mast company that the mast profile they say I should use (for the bow sprit sail plan) would require a single set of spreaders and no jumpers.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 am

Just wanted to let you all know that I just purchased a 6 month old mast for 2,000. I checked with the mast manufacturer and they say it is the correct section. It's 39' long and comes with running rigging and other connections/lights. The down side is that it is - about 2,500 miles away (AL)....I will look into shipping or maybe a road trip down that way this summmer.

kristian · Post by **kristian** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:59 pm

Sorry, been away for a while and just checked this. But heres my after the fact thoughts.

Sounds like you're doing right by replacing the mast. The crack can be prevented from propogating by drilling as Tim described, better yet welded. The corrosion under the spreader bases isn't terrible, but would recommend a gasket to prevent further. But man, that bend is not good, and not fixable.

Bends like that always have hard kinks in them somewhere, which makes it weaker. I've seen people sail with a bend like that and be ok, although they never can tune the mast right. I've even seen people get the bend out by various entertaining methods (roll over tire, stick in bike rack and bend the other way etc.) Sometimes this holds up, but generally the mast gets stiffer and weaker there, and breaks. The only way I know to really get rid of a kink/serious bend is by cutting it out and splicing the mast sections back together. All told you're better off with your new section. Sounds like a good deal too.