Fixing a delaminated mast

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Thu May 06, 2004 10:19 am

Anyone have any experience with fixing delamination on a sitka spruce mast? The main and mizzen from my Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30, both of which are box-in-box construction, have just started to delaminate. My plan was to simply clean them up, inject the proper West System into the places where the delamination has occured, clamp, then re-coat with varnish and be done. But the more (as usual) people I speak with, the more conflicting reports I receive. I have heard everything from, "replace with aluminum," to "fiberglass them and forget them." I love the look of spruce masts, and don't really want to fiberglass them.

Anyone have any further input?

Tony G · Post by **Tony G** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:44 pm

How much do you really love your boat? If you want to be done with it there are the carbon fiber masts with the faux paint jobs that don't look that bad. Of course a couple of layers of fabric over the sitka would hardly be noticable, however, I doubt it would provide enought strength to suffice. This one is WAY beyond the realm of my education. I'd opt for the CF, nobody will ever know! Tony G.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 07, 2004 7:24 am

What you do depends entirely on how bad the delamination is. Obviously, even a minor weakness in a spar represents a potentially serious flaw in the overall structure of the mast. It's not clear from what you wrote in what area of the mast you discovered the problem, or how significant it is. More information is required to give any better advice on your specific problem, though.

I think fiberglassing is a terrible idea that will lead to increased rot and serious problems that will lead to the disintegration of the entire mast. Don't go there. The wooden structure needs to be able to act like wood--glassing it will ruin it. Fiberglass is not a "band aid" for wood. More sound wooden structures have been ruined by well-intentioned, but inherently flawed, fiberglass application--don't do it.

You own a classic boat. I think she deserves the appropriate wooden spars. Perhaps what you have can be successfully repaired--perhaps not. Where is the delamination? Is it just one piece of wood that has come unglued from its adjacent side of the box? The original thing is only glued up, so if it's a matter of this, then you should be able to repair as you suggest. If you have deterioration of the wood itself, then you may have other problems.

Aluminum spars are fine, but you'll lose a lot of character, too. I would do whatever it took to repair, or replace, the wood. Building a new wooden box-section mast isn't rocket science, but finding high quality, straight-grained wood is getting tougher and tougher--and, of course, more expensive.

Save the wood.

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:36 am

There is absolutely no question that I am keeping the wood mast. Carbon Fiber would be nice, but my last name is not Rockefeller or Kennedy, and where the boat is a ketch, the costs are nearly doubled. (Not to mention we are not talking about a Hinckley or Herreshoff here. It is after all a boat of limited value!)

The mast is constructed in such a way that if you were to look at a cross section, the box consists of two "inner" sides, and two "outer" sides, if that makes any sense. The outer pieces are glued to the inner pieces. At varying intervals, the glue has let go. Thankfully, there is no gap big enough to even fit a cigarette paper in yet, which speaks highly of the original construction. Again, this is not a situation that is out of control yet, and there is absolutely no dry rot at all on the masts. It is truly just a question of glue that has failed.

I have been told that epoxy will not only sit on the surface, but will penetrate the substrate, thus becoming stronger than the surrounding wood. But I have also been told that where a mast is a flexing, moving object, epoxy is a bad idea because it is not pliable and tends to crack with movement.

Does this long-winded explanation get us any closer?

thanks,
m

Post by **dasein668** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:55 am

I disagree with the assessment that epoxy is not suitable for a load under flexion stresses. A thick plug of epoxy may indeed have issues here, but in a case where you have a fine glue joint, the epoxy is perfectly suitable.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:10 am

Ditto what Nathan said.

If the epoxy is thickened with microfibers or some other shear-enhancing agent, then yes it may not want to move with the wood, and may become a stress riser and crack.

If the epoxy is unthickened, or if it's only mildly thickened with silica or some other purely thixotropic agent, it should move with the wood just fine.

My (limited) experience with box-section spars is that they're generally way overengineered. Glue it and go.

oh, and post some pics, I beg!!!

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:21 am

As with everything on the boat, with the possible exception of the electrical system, you're right: the spars are completely overbuilt. That is why I am beginning to think that sometimes one needs to go with his gut on these things and just epoxy the durned gaps and go sailing. I have found that no matter what project I am attacking, I can find a naysayer to tell me all the reasons my approach will be a failure and will ultimately result in me sinking my boat. Heh heh. I have learned not to ask questions of groups of "experts" at marine supply stores, unless I do so expressly for the entertainment value of watching the ensuing chaos and arguments.

You refer to a thixotropic agent. I believe that West System recommends a specific agent to assist in the process of re-attaching two previously-joined surfaces. It sounds like you have some experience...do you know which agent this might be? Also, the inner piece of the mast on each side has, after separating, sucked in a bit, and the only remedy I can imaging is to set a small bronze screw just to keep everything in place while the epoxy is drying. Does this give anyone shivers? Is there any reason I should avoid doing this - again, not as a structural aid, but just to keep the separate pieces in place while the fix is happening?

I have several thousand pictures of the masts. I have become somewhat Lackey-like in my obsession with pictorially recording everything I do to the boat. I will send a couple to Tim tomorrow and have him post them.

As always, thanks for the advice.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:42 am

Since you're talking about just regluing a structure that was glued to begin with, then epoxy will work just fine. Epoxy is an adhesive first, after all. You're talking about regluing a joint here--not injecting the whole mast with epoxy or any such thing. I would probably thicken the epoxy only slightly with cabosil--just a little, as cabosil enhances the adhesive qualities of epoxy. Be sure you get plenty in the gap--use a syringe as necessary. If you over thicken it, it will not flow as well into the gaps, so err on the side ot too little rather than too much.

Reglue the joint, clamp it, and go sailing. I would avoid the use of screws at all if you can successfully clamp the piece. But if you need the screw to pull things together, then by all means use one. Please choose bronze for this application, as you said.

How do these boatyard naysayers suggest the mast was first secured together, by the way? Um. With glue. Epoxy is a glue. It's designed for use with wood--what does WEST system stand for, after all? (Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique) Use it with confidence in the ways for which it was intended, but not as a cure-all for every ill on board, as many are wont to do.

By the way, it's common and natural for the original adhesive used in your mast to begin failing after all this time. Be sure to inspect the mast closely each year and stay ahead of any issues. And keep it well varnished!

I eagerly await your photos and will post them here as soon as I receive them!

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:50 am

Thanks Tim. As always, you and your readers helped me tremendously. And know that if you ever want to take a spin across the bridge, you can be assured of three things:

1) You can see the mast for yourself and make an absolute recommendation not based on my nebulous descriptions...

2) You can have a good, hearty chuckle at my boat-mending techniques and the utter madness that is my garage/workshop, and

3) The beer will be extremely cold, and will cost you nothing besides your invaluable advice.

Again, thanks to all.

m

Post by **dasein668** » Fri May 07, 2004 12:57 pm

What's the name of your boat? Where do you keep her? Just curious, as I'll keep my eyes peeled for her this summer.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 07, 2004 2:47 pm

dasein668 wrote:What's the name of your boat? Where do you keep her? Just curious, as I'll keep my eyes peeled for her this summer.

No, actually I think Nathan's really just on the lookout for that promised cold beer...

Mike (penthink), seriously though: where is your boat now?

penthink1 · Post by **penthink1** » Fri May 07, 2004 2:59 pm

Katie May is her name. Right now she is at Southport Marine at the end of the bridge. In two weeks, I am having her trucked over here to my house in South Portland, right around the corner from the Saltwater Grill. Here she will undergo a ground up resto, including new wiring, plumbing, perhaps a re-power.
For the summer, I will be sailing a Cheoy Lee Offshore 31, which is exactly the same as my Bermuda 30, just a foot longer. Same ketch rig and saloon layout though. I became friends with the guy that owns it, and he suggested we share the boat for a season while I did my refit, so we will see how that works out. That boat is named Ariel and she is beautiful. Keep your eye out for her. There will always be a cold beer on board should you say hello!

Dave, 397 · Post by **Dave, 397** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:36 am

Just for my 2 cents' worth as a guy who has glued a lot of things to a lot of things (some on purpose, even!) including a heady amount of spruce...

I'm inclined to agree that epoxy would do just fine in dealing with open seams on the mast, assuming that one can get into the seam at least a bit (hopefully) and rough up/knock out some of the original glue as best possible. Since epoxy works by gaining "traction" in/on the surface to be bonded, if the open used-to-be-glued joint was smucked up nice with rescorcinol (or any other glue for that matter) it's going to be harder for the new glue to get a good bond. A good tool for jobs like this can be made by cutting a hacksaw blade off short, grinding a roundover on what will be the "business" or "penetrating" end, and then grinding it thinner as needed. If it doesn't need to get thinner, grind it a bit anyway to knock the set off the teeth. A bit of heat shrink and/or lots of black tape (electrical tape for the more literate) makes a good handle. It's nice to make one to cut on the push and one to cut on the pull. The "grinding" part of things is very easy to do with a belt sander, although one needs to take one's time so as not to overheat the blade. FWIW, cheapy blades will either bend too easily or they break too easily. Lenox and/or Starret hacksaw blades are pretty good in general and very good for this.

One place I do not like epoxy at all for gluing is on very tight-grained, oily or resinous woods. While one can leech the oils off of/"out of" the *surface*, it's just like overstripping the skin on one's shiny oily nose with alcohol only to have it become shinier and oilier (yeah, okay, I had complexion problems in Jr. High!). The newly arisen oils will tend to pop the joint apart, especially if there is sun involved to heat the wood.

Two Words:
Poly Glue

Gorilla Glue, Grizzly Glue, Titebond Polyurethane Glue...all the same goop.

The stuff is flexy to a good degree and stays that way. Also foams and expands a bit as it starts to kick off, which is bad in a sense in that it is messy. Also bad for the poor fool who didn't clamp it very well and/or with heavy clamping cauls to keep it from going flexy/wavy...but it drives right on in to the wood and makes a very tenacious bond. Works great on softwoods, too, and fills gaps to a fair degree.

I made up the parts for a purpleheart bowsprit on a buddy's boat a few years ago...and he was dead set, could not be swayed that he simply HAD to use epoxy. Well, I tried to adjust the position but it was to no avail. A year later, the ting was coming apart like nobody's business, and it was easy (once it was off the boat and the Kranze Iron wasn't holding the end together,,,I mean, REALLY easy, FRIGHTENINGLY easy...to pop it apart with a mallet and a stiff putty knife. After cleaning up the mating surfaces and prepping 'em, it was reglued with ample quantities of poly glue and hasn't moved since. Just a thought.

Best,
Dave

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Mon May 10, 2004 9:55 am

Well that certainly gives me more to think about. Thanks for the input. Is there a single problem on a boat that has a definite and for certain solution? I think not. So, because I am a novice, I have no knowledge of these poly glues to which you refer. Anyone else have experience going down the poly glue route? Is this a marine item, or can it be had at the local hardware store? I must say, every modicum of my being tells me that unless I buy it in a marine store and must re-mortgage my home to make the purchase, then it cannot be right. Absolutely no offense meant by that, but why buy a package of stainless screws at your local hardware store for $7, when you can fo get the same ones at West Marine, in a box with the word "marine" on it for $23, right?

So while you all argue that point, I have another part to this delamination question. Obviously, the rather limitless junk that is necessarily attached to each of the two masts must obviously be re-attached. The last guy who varnished them felt absolutely no hesitation in liberally slopping varnish all over cleats, winches, sheaves, just about anything in sight. It is horrible. I have wire-brushed everything back to its former bronze glory, but my question is about re-bedding: as in, should I do so prior to varnishing, then varnish with all hardware in place, which I think would give me a nice tight bond, but which would leave all wood underneath the various pieces untreated, or should I put my ten coats of Epifanes on first, then 5200 everything in place? The latter is by far my inclination and would be my preference. I know this probably sounds like an elementary question, but I don't plan on doing this again for a few years, so I want to make as few mistakes as possible this time...

Dave, 397 · Post by **Dave, 397** » Mon May 10, 2004 2:12 pm

Yep, Poly glue is a regular hardware store goodie.

I think the only way to make something costlier than putting the word "marine" on the package is to use the word "aircraft", or possibly "medical". At least in those cases there has been some additional QA and certifications, as opposed to simply repackaging.

My big favorite is the specially packaged "marine" sandpapers from 3M...at about 4 times the cost of the same item from the autobody house! Sheessh!

And...yep...SS screws are SS screws, assuming apples to apples in terms of which alloy you are buying. Like everything else, there is no magic...only smoke and mirrors.

If it were I, I'd varnish the part BEFORE installing the hardware, but I'd bed it in place with butyl or dolfinite. Seals great and comes off later without tearing off chunks!

Dave

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Mon May 10, 2004 2:29 pm

Interesting. Since I have heard no screams of contradiciton, I am assuming "the crowd" is in agreement with this approach. Either that or they are offering a collective "shut up and make the repair already!"

Okay. I am off to the hardware store. Thanks for the money-saving (hopefully) tip.

-Mike

Post by **Tim** » Mon May 10, 2004 4:12 pm

Varnish first, then install the hardware. Use Dolfinite (which is specifically a bedding compound made just for this sort of installation), or some other non-permanent sealant--butyl or even polysulfide caulk would be fine. DO NOT USE 5200!!!!!! 5200 is an adhesive, and will create more or less permanent bonds that will be extremely difficult to ever get off. Only use 5200 when you want such permanance. And don't use silicone, either. Ever.

When buying stainless screws, look for "18-8" alloy, or "316". Many stainless screws (at both the hardware store and marine store) are 304 alloy, which is OK but will streak rust. I have used plenty of screws from the hardware store. And be smart and buy full boxes, such as those from Hamilton. (They may be a marine store, but their boxed fastener prices are A-OK usually.) You always need more, so might as well start that comprehensive fastener collection now. Even then, you'll frequently need something you don't have. It's amazing how fasteners disappear once you have them in stock.

Post by **dasein668** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:17 pm

Tim wrote:Even then, you'll frequently need something you don't have.

Yes, I'm constantly amazed that I can go to Hamilton's and pick up 8 boxes of different fasteners and still, somehow, not have the exact one I need. Tim has gotten quite a bit of amusement from that this winter...

Dave, 397 · Post by **Dave, 397** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:26 pm

..And probably a whole lot of extra boxes of screws...("That's OK, Nathan, I'll give you 2 bucks for that box there. Then you have cash to buy icecream while you're waiting for the bus home...")

LOL!

Dave
(owner, myself, of about 15 utility knives and a dozen packs of replacement blades with one missing from each packet...they're someplace in the shop. Someplace. I have spent a lot of money and wasted productivity waiting for the short bus to come and take me to Home Depot to buy a new one.)

Post by **Tim** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:38 pm

If you can't find it, you don't have it, I always say.

Maybe I'm a dork (go easy on me, guys), but I like organization!

Earlier this year, I ordered a dozen utility knives (for like $0.90 each) and 400 blades from some Ebay store, since I was never near the one silly knife I had in the shop. In a fit of apparent extreme boredom, Nathan volunteered to dismantle all the knives and spray paint them bright orange. Now I have knives all over the place, and the bright color really makes them stand out. And enough spare blades forever.

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:07 am

Wow. Is there a therapist in the house?

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:13 am

By the way Tim, I got your "5200" advice too late and bedded all my hardware in it before varnishing. Now my mast is ruined. Thanks a lot. Oh wait a minute, no I didn't. I fell asleep in front of the Red Sox with all the intentions in the world of being out in the garage working...

Again, thanks for all the advice.

kay30boot · Post by **kay30boot** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:37 pm

Wow. Is there a therapist in the house?
Remember Phil Hartman's 'The Anal-Retentive Chef' skit on SNL??
Kinda sad, if it were'nt so darned funny. (apostraphe abuse alert) hehe

Post by **dasein668** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:02 pm

Hey, there were times when Tim would spend longer than it took me to disassemble and paint the damn things just looking for one (and swearing profusely). It seemed worthwhile for everyone's sanity!

Plus, it made cool modern art. Where's that pic Tim?

;-P

Post by **Tim** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:14 am

Moi? Swear profusely? You must have me mixed up with someone else.

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:26 pm

Well I have purchased Penthinks headache and she now sits comfortably in my driveway 70 miles farther inland. Methinks she's nervous to have moved that far from salt water. Her new name(I know, I know - changing the name superstition - but the wife wouldn't stand for the old name) is Argo Navis, and she is awaiting my attention. I have been made to promise to finish the entry way in the house before the boat even sees the sight of my sander.

Mostly just wanted to post a reply to introduce myself and to thank all you kind folks for the good advice on what to do with the wooden masts.
From what I can tell poly-glue is a good affordable solution.

I'll be back with many questions I'm sure

Best

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:30 pm

Hope you're enjoying her. Like they say, "Buy high, sell low, make friends." Sheesh. If am ever the model for that one...

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:32 pm

Hey, Welcome to the peanut gallery! I was hoping we hadn't heard the last of that boat.

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:38 pm

Oh no - you guys definitely have not heard the last about this boat. It won't be long before I'm banned from the forum for monopolizing too much forum space. Until then.......

ps - how do I post a photo to the forum to assist folks in answering questions?

Post by **Tim** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:57 pm

argonavis,

Welcome, and congratulations on your new toy. Please post all you like (or not at all, if you prefer).

I for one would like to see any photos of this now-infamous boat. To post a photo here, it must already be "hosted" somewhere online. Then, the web address ("properties") of that photo must be inserted in the message body using the tags, or using the toolbar at the top of the message-posting page. It's easy, but hard to describe.

Instead, many readers find it easier to send their photos to me via email (tlackey@triton381.com), and I will publish them to the web and then post them here on the forum in the appropriate place. Please feel free to send me photos anytime.

Look forward to hearing from you. Whereabouts in Maine are you?

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:49 pm

Thanks for the info.

I live in Fayette(Kents Hill) but work in Wiscasset and sail mostly in the Three Rivers/Muscongus region. I just finished bringing a Pearson 365 back to life for a cousin and he sold it a year after the job was finished. Go figure. I traded labor for use of the boat - boy did he make out like a bandit. Anyways that was enough to prompt the search for our Cheoy Lee - Argo Navis. And hell, I figured that the Pearson was mostly a breeze, so I needed a challenge for this go around. God I must be a fool.

But a fool with a big dopey grin.

chris

tim - photos on their way

penthink · Post by **penthink** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:11 pm

Well, look at this way: You could have spent $7500 on the initial purchase, $475 getting it up from Boston, $1000 down for the slip you never used because the boat almost sank when you put it in the water, $5300 for repairs (repairs that did not work, no less), $850 for winter storage for last season, and $165 to have it trucked from the storage facility to your house, then have sold it for one fifth of what you had invested in it. If I figure correctly, there is a bigger fool on this forum than you.

(I wish I hadn't compiled that list. I feel really, really stupid now. I certainly hope the better half doesn't visit this site!)

-mike

Post by **Tim** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:29 pm

There's nothing sane or logical about this ridiculous lust for boats. Insane people unite! You're in good company here on this forum.

We all swallow our bitter pills from time to time. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:43 pm

Yeah, its like being in the loony bin with all you crazys around here. It's tough to be the only sane one in the bunch!

;-P

heartofgold · Post by **heartofgold** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:50 am

Here's a rational thought progression for the group (any dissenting voices, speak up). I am going to get a new furler. To save money, I could cut down the old genny (which really is too big for this boat) and have a sunbrella luff attached, but it would only cost a little more to get a new genny which would be a better sail anyway. And if I have a burgundy luff attached (which will look best with my claret hull), I can't keep my old and barely servicable blue sunbrella mainsail cover (that would clash too much) so I will also need to get a new mainsail cover at the same time.

So, to add a furler ($250) to the boat will require that I also purchase a new headsail ($400) and a new mainsail cover($175). That's the only way to do it, right?

That makes it an $825 furler. Logic is such a beautiful thing.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:43 am

What kind of furler can you get for $ 250 ?! New ones are probably more in the $ 1000 range for a 20-25 ft boat. So now that we are talking about furlers , what is the recommendation for a 22 ft boat? M

Post by **Tim** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:56 am

Doug,

I of all people certainly understand your "logic". However, there are answers to your quandaries, I think.

First, as much as I like the look of a Sunbrella sunshield on a genoa when rolled, the material is just too heavy and kills the sail shape in light airs. It's OK in regular and moderate-heavy, but a better alternative--and one that would not force you into a new mainsail cover (necessarily)--would be to choose the white, lightweight sunshields that are also commonly used. White goes with everything, and the lighter weight means that your sail will be better off in light airs.

If you're dead-set on a burgandy Sunbrella cover, then you'll definitely have to go for the new main cover. In my book, anyway. (Don't you want to get rid of that Pacific Blue anyway?) A mainsail cover is probably one of the potentially easiest canvas products if you have any inclination to try your hand at canvaswork. (or if anyone you know wants to try.) Use the old one as a pattern, assuming it fits well.

If you're planning on having the boat a while and want the best sail for your furler, it is definitely worth the upgrade to the new sail. Cut-down sails work just fine, but when the prices are close I think it easily justifies the new sail.

And since it was brought up, CDI furlers are how you get a $250 furler for a 20' boat. They are a good choice for small boats and work well. They make sizes for larger boats, too, but I think Harkens or Schaefers are better once you get up to 28 or 30' in boatlength. The prices range up into the $500+ range at this size, and down from there. They are definitely a bargain, but aren't cheap junk either. Doug probably found one for that price at either www.pyacht.com or www.riggingonly.com.

Check out the CDI furlers for any small boat.

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:49 am

Tim wrote: First, as much as I like the look of a Sunbrella sunshield on a genoa when rolled, the material is just too heavy and kills the sail shape in light airs. It's OK in regular and moderate-heavy, but a better alternative--and one that would not force you into a new mainsail cover (necessarily)--would be to choose the white, lightweight sunshields that are also commonly used. White goes with everything, and the lighter weight means that your sail will be better off in light airs.

I back this up 110%. We have the lightweight white sunshield on our sail and having sailed side by side with Tim in light air, the difference is quite evident. His sail with the heavier sunbrella definitely has a tendency to sag or collapse, especially downwind, several knots before ours does.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:34 pm

Give your old genoa and cover to me. I will list it on Ebay and probably cover the cost of the new one :-)

Seriously though, you will be looking at your boat with the nice furler, new well cut genoa and mainsail cover with that look of pride and satisfaction long after the pain of the purchase is gone. Spending the money to make your boat look beautiful is always a good thing.

I may be a little bit weird but I sometimes think just being able to sit and gaze over my boat is worth the expense and effort. As a matter of fact, that is probably the main source of joy I get from my boat these days. Maybe sometime I will try sailing it.

-Britton

heartofgold · Post by **heartofgold** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:26 pm

I guess we are getting a little off topic here, but I will post one last reply. Yes, for my little 20'er I am looking at a CDI FF-1 furler. I found it at pyacht for $245 plus pyacht's famous $11.00 shipping. This should just fit my rig, but any larger and I would have to move up to a FF-2 for about $75 more.

And thanks, Tim. I had no quandry until you responded. I certainly do no want to keep my pacific blue cover, and yes, I will probably make a copy of the original; it mostly fits well. Aside from that, however, I appreciated the tip on the sunshield. I mostly sail in light airs here, except when hurricanes are charging across that darn penninsula, so that is a good tip, and one with which I will likely follow through.

Let me also thank you, Nathan. I believe I will finance that furler and new genoa with the sale of my old one on Ebay. Unless, of course, you would care to make an offer in advance (bids will start around $300 hehe).

Finally, Britton, you are correct. After competing the work on Heart and while I was waiting on my registration, it was almost satisifying enough to just stare at boat and admire my handiwork. Finally, I had to put it in the water and take her out sailing. Luckily I haven't scratched up the awlgrip, yet.

Post by **Tim** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:37 pm

If your boat doesn't make you stop and stare with pleasure each time you leave (or arrive, for that matter), then she's probably not worth having.

Or that's how I see it, anyway. Aesthetics and pride of ownership are huge attributes and not worth compromising, ever.

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:26 pm

Right on, Tim.

I second Tim's thoughts re: aesthetics etc.

Each time I walk down the dock at my club I am pleased to catch sight of my boat. Even though she is one of over 20 Sharks there, I still think she is the best looking one of the bunch! But that's just my opinion!

Lyman
Scoot

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:24 am

Okay, so lets get back to masts, eh? (no I'm not canadian)

Well I finally got all the hardware off both spars and their respective booms. I was also able to sand all the varnish off pretty easily. They now sit awaiting their regluing and varnish. I am inclined to put the regluing off till spring as, the entryway in my house is still unfinished and my wife is getting anxious. For those with a sideways glance you'll need to look to my first post on this thread. So, if I leave them unglued and unfinished over the winter what steps should I take to make sure that they are dry and ready for the spring. I don't have an inside space to store them; should I just wrap them in plastic? Should I worry about trapping condensation if I do this. any thoughts??

Just to update everyone - although the entryway is unfinished I am still sneaking in a few projects here and there. My wife is mostly putting up with it, but when she comes home and sees my punch list that is slanted towards the boat I usually get a " You know the house is starting to get jealous of the boat" But, the cover is on and she is bundled up for winter. On the advice of an uncle that refitted a chey lee offshore 40 I began my own survey. I started in the v-berth and worked my way through the cabin an into the cockpit. Before I really even started on the cockpit I was at 4 1/2 pages. I just stopped as I was slightly overwhelmed at that point.

The v-berth is now mostly gutted and I am picking away at putting it back together as each little piece is complete.

thanks in advance for any advice on the masts.

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:27 am

Okay, so lets get back to masts, eh? (no I'm not canadian)

Well I finally got all the hardware off both spars and their respective booms. I was also able to sand all the varnish off pretty easily. They now sit awaiting their regluing and varnish. I am inclined to put the regluing off till spring as, the entryway in my house is still unfinished and my wife is getting anxious. For those with a sideways glance you'll need to look to my first post on this thread. So, if I leave them unglued and unfinished over the winter what steps should I take to make sure that they are dry and ready for the spring. I don't have an inside space to store them; should I just wrap them in plastic? Should I worry about trapping condensation if I do this. any thoughts??

Just to update everyone - although the entryway is unfinished I am still sneaking in a few projects here and there. My wife is mostly putting up with it, but when she comes home and sees my punch list that is slanted towards the boat I usually get a " You know the house is starting to get jealous of the boat" But, the cover is on and she is bundled up for winter. On the advice of an uncle that refitted a chey lee offshore 40 I began my own survey. I started in the v-berth and worked my way through the cabin an into the cockpit. Before I really even started on the cockpit I was at 4 1/2 pages. I just stopped as I was slightly overwhelmed at that point.

The v-berth is now mostly gutted and I am picking away at putting it back together as each little piece is complete.

thanks in advance for any advice on the masts.

penthink1 · Post by **penthink1** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:32 am

Chris,
Here is what you should do:

1) Build a garage, but build it slightly shorter than the mast.
2) Put a window in the end of the garage, so that you can leave the window open all winter, and the end of the mast can stick out slightly, and snow can blow into your garage and you look like a hillbilly with a mast poking out of the garage and into your back yard.
3) Inform your wife that her car will not be making it into the garage all winter, as with the masts in the garage there is no room for her car.
4) Make absolutely certain that your couch is set up for comfortable sleeping.

This what I did when Argonavis was named Katie May and those masts were my concern.

Hope all is well. Sounds like you have made more progress in the three months you have had her than I did in the two years I did.

Fair winds,
Mike

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:25 pm

Don't wrap in plastic. As you guessed, this will trap moisture, and you'll get some ugly stuff growing under there. Wood needs to breathe.

You want to block UV light. You want to block rain, snow, and dew. You want to ensure plenty of ventilation. Picture a long, low pup-tent, open at both ends....

It might be a whole lot easier to pay someone (the local lumberyard, perhaps?) $200 to store it under their roof for the winter.

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:42 am

Thanks Figment.
The pup tent idea was sort of what I had in mind. There is a barn that I could store them in about 10 miles away, but I don't quite know how to get them there. It's not like I can throw a 40' mast on top of the thule rack.
Guess the tent will have to do.

thanks again
Chris

Post by **dasein668** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:26 am

You could tow it?I have a friend that towed a 70 foot spar from Portland to Falmouth, about 10 miles, with his VW Golf. All you need to do is get a small trailer, or two wheel cart and lash that to one end of the mast. At the other end lash a tongue with a hitch. Make sure you flag the end and get a pole-towing permit. My friend payed $5 for one and they gave it to him no-questions-asked.

penthink1 · Post by **penthink1** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:02 pm

Chris,

I took both masts from the marina over the Casco Bay bridge on top of my Pathfinder with no racks. They are fine, and are surprisingly not that heavy. You should be able to do it no problem. And the main is only 32', so you really won't have a problem. I used the ratcheting straps and the things were solid as a rock.

Get 'em to that barn! That's the best place for 'em.

m

argonavis · Post by **argonavis** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:41 am

Okay okay so I'm convinced, to the barn they go. The extra nudge was just what i needed. My wife will be suspect of this plan at best.

Per your earlier post - If I don't finish the damn entryway very soon I won't have the option of the couch. I'll most likely be banished to the boat with a candle for heat and the dog bed for a mattress. The tiles go down this weekend - cross your fingers for me.

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