Hello and a question about Interior varnish choices.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:20 pm

Before I get to the question I should mention that I am new to the forum. I've lurked here for a while and it seems that there are a lot of skilled and interesting folks here who share my enjoyment of messing around on boats. I sail and work on (or is it the other way around) a Bob Perry designed CheoyLee35(1980) that is in the midst of a multi year overhaul. We fix'er up in the off season then we throw her in the water and sail during the summer. It takes longer but it better suits my mood and budget this way. We sail out of Nova Scotia so the sailing season is not to be missed.
It is reassuring to find a site like this and discover that I'm not alone in my addiction to boats. I'm sure a lot of you will understand that January is a prime month for boat projects and that I've got a garage half full of boat cabinetry that I need to refinish. On exterior teak I favour Epifanes Wood finish Gloss but I don't have any strong opinions on inside varnish work.Epifanes seems like it may be a little too soft. I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments on inside varnish brands? Thanks.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:42 pm

on my customers boats, I've used Z-Spar 1015 or 2015 for years with excellent result. Some think the 1015 flows a bit easier.

On our own boat we use 2015 since we use that on the exterior also.

I've done boat interiors that are now 10 or more years old and the interior brightwork is still in good shape. Just doesn't get the UV damage in there.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:51 pm

We keep 4 varnishers busy all summer and up to 8 busy all winter coating boats with Z-Spar 1015. We even have a bright African Mahogany planked Concordia that gets 3 coats in the winter and 2 more mid-summer with it.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:16 am

I prefer satin varnishes on interior wood, but this is a personal choice. Gloss can look very nice as well. Neither is more "right" than the other; it's all about the look one is going for.

For satin, I've had good luck and results with Epifanes Rubbed Effect interior varnish. This is nice stuff that flows and levels extremely well, and leaves a soft glow behind.

Interior varnish should last a very long time. Done properly, it may not need refreshing for many, many years.

I recently read a seemingly trusted old salt's advice that Behr spar varnish--yup, the stuff now available at Home Despot--is his premium choice for exterior varnish. Anyone have any comments on this?

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:54 am

Hi Tim,
Do you use the rubbed effects for all the coats or do you topcoat the final coat after using gloss for buildup layers? BTW, It's a great site you run here.

Post by **dasein668** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:00 am

I also like the rubbed effect pretty well. I usually do 2 or possibly 3 coats (depending on time!) of gloss followed by one coat of the rubbed effect.

I also used some Danish Oil on some of the small trim pieces in my head renovation project which I liked. I wouldn't probably use the oil on large surfaces, but for trim pieces it was good. Fast and easy to apply and gives a nice warm luster with a matte finish.

In this picture the mast support beam and the drawers are finished with rubbed effect varnish and the vertical wood trim piece on the right side of the drawer area is finished with Danish Oil.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:58 am

Shoalcove wrote:Hi Tim,
Do you use the rubbed effects for all the coats or do you topcoat the final coat after using gloss for buildup layers?

I use gloss varnish for the base coats, and the satin only on the top layer. Once coat of satin as a final coat is usally enough unless there's a mistake or a holiday you need to correct.

Build up as many base coats as you need to for a smooth finish, but typically you only need a couple.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:37 pm

Great. I'm used to many coats of varnish on the exterior and wasn't looking forward to many coats on the interior as well. Those louvered doors look great but are a pain to varnish. 3 or 4 coats sounds reasonable.
Thanks for the advice

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:51 am

The buildup is less important on the interior because there's little or no exposure to UV or weather. So the ultimate thickness of the coating doesn't matter so much.

What does matter is that however many or few coats you use, you are happy with the appearance of the wood at the end. New, smoothly-sanded wood only requires a few coats to get the necessary depth of appearance, but as always, this is one of those things that will be different every time and in every situation.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:56 pm

One word of caution... I would recommend against the Wood Finish Gloss for your base layers before the Epifanes rubbed Effect. My experience has been that it darkens the wood significantly. Using the regular gloss is fine though.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:45 pm

Thanks for the tip. I'll stick with the Wood Finish Gloss for exterior only. I quite like the looks of it outside but it is a little soft and tends to scape easily. I may top coat that outside with Clear gloss for durability.

jollyboat · Post by **jollyboat** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm

I have had good results using Min-Wax Polyurethane (spelling?). I mix the satin with high gloss and get a 'tweener of gloss and satin but not quite semigloss. I learned this trick from Dad as he refinished the house floors like this and they came out very well.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:58 am

I've used, on the previous boat, the Minwax Polyurethane on 'deep interior' and spar varnish at the companionway where sun is often present.

Our current boat is a North East 38 with huge cabin ports and windows. It's delightfully bright below and the sun has bleached large areas of the woodwork from the original dark red of the Makore to quite blonde. We've made 'cosies' for the large hatches, and intend to make some for the ports.

The original finish was sprayed and then rubbed, like fine furniture; I don't know the chemistry. I'll be refinishing the wood around the ports and the sole and will be using a satin finish to imitate the rubbed original.

Rubbed finishes were often lacquers but I understand that varnishes make their own surface as they cure and that they shouldn't be rubbed. I'd imagine the urethanes should not be rubbed as well. Will someone who actually knows what I'm talking about please add their knowlege?

For boats which have just a little trim, the high gloss will look very nice as would a satin finish. For boats which have a great percentage of wood, or large plain surfaces, I think high gloss is too garish. Not only too garish, but every brush stroke and other inconsistency will show far worse with the gloss.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 pm

no reason to not rub out varnishes.

I've been a furniture refinisher for years. We often hand rubbed varnishes to match existing pieces. No problem at all and many ways to do it, from 4-0 steel wool ( which I would NOT use aboard due to rust), scotch brite pads in various degrees of coarseness- the colors let you know, to rotten stone, to pumice.

Personally I detest polyurethanes on boats OR on furniture. When it fails and must be renewed, it can be a royal BITCH to get it off the wood. PLus when it does fail, it seems to do so catastrohiclly, so it must ALL be removed. It's not as easy to repair as varnishes or lacquers, which are seldom seen on boats.

Columbia34 · Post by **Columbia34** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:44 am

What about on Interior Cabin floors? anything special we have teak/holly floors in our boat that are in good shape but need to be refinished. And once varnished can they we waxed (like a basketball court) to keep it from being slippery when wet? what should I use? thanks.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:40 pm

I once had nicely varnished teak/holly soles in a boat. Found them to be EXTREMELY slippery. In fact I totally busted my butt once when popping down to glance at a chart.

The next day I pulled those soles and stripped the varnish, then oiled 'em. I always used oiled soles now.

However, there is a varnish like stuff available that isn't slippery. Some one on another board posted pictures of using it on the companionway ladder in his Westsail 32. Looked really great and was completely nonskid. Unfortunately I can't recal the name, but I can contact the guy who did it and get the name, if no one here knows what I'm referring to.

Columbia34 · Post by **Columbia34** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:06 pm

that would be great if you can find out for me. thanks.

Scott

FloatingMoneyPit · Post by **FloatingMoneyPit** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:09 pm

I believe Ultimate Sole is the stuff we're talking about.

http://www.ultimatesole.com/Scripts/pro ... Category=6

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:15 pm

My favorite look for interiors is satin on large flat surfaces and gloss on trim and highlights. Gloss on bulkheads and such seem to produce too much glare and the satin feels 'warmer' to me. Of course masking off the trim to add that last coat of satin to the bulkheads adds another item to the work list, but hey, you aren't gonna ever finish your list anyway. :)

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:34 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Now, who would like to demonstrate their brushing technique on louvered doors? : ) I tried to get my wife involved but she had read Tom Sawyer...

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:40 pm

I can't even master paint on louvres - I may be tempted to try spraying if I had to .. .. ..

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:42 pm

I gotta say, this pic makes me wish I hadn't "customized" the opening in that bulkhead.