Cockpit questions

[Duncan]

Here's the cockpit in my Paceship Eastwind. The seats are low - at a guess, about 12" high.
This is quite uncomfortable for more than an hour or two - even doubling up the seat cushions doesn't help much (and also cancels out the benefit of the coamings as backrests).
The cockpit well is also too narrow to stretch out my legs, with the result my knees are pretty sore by the end of a long day on the water.



I had come up with a plan to drop down the cockpit sole about 6".
This would also fit in nicely with installing an engine access hatch, a la Contessa 26, at the same time:



(which also appears to have low cockpit seats, now that I look at it again)

What I have just realized, though, is that (DOH!) - there's a reason the cockpit is not deep. One more picture:



Without getting out to the boat and measuring exactly, I am now pretty sure the cockpit sole couldn't be much lower without going below the waterline. Chances are the leeward side is already very close, since she sails fairly well heeled over.

So far, I am thinking that I don't want to give up the convenience and safety of a self-bailing cockpit, BUT
- my chances of getting pooped are very small
- cockpit scuppers drain notoriously slowly anyway
- I could install scuppers above the waterline (i.e. on the sides of the cockpit), so that it would still be self-bailing except for the portion below them (~6", maximum). This would leave roughly 150 lbs of water, once the rest slops out or drains away.

The remaining portion could be drained to the bilge. I don't think this is a great idea, but it might be better than having it in the cockpit, where it would upset the trim of the boat more. (It would have to be plugged until the rest of the water was gone, to keep too much of it from going to the bilge in the first place).

Anyway, this all sounds unusual enough to make me pause and wonder what I may be overlooking. I don't really want to go the "other way" by building the seats up, since the boat sails on her ear. The depth between the seat and the coaming really does help stay in the boat (when winching in the jib on the leeward side, for instance).

But I am very open to any advice or counsel here - my knees are getting creaky, and I am getting tired of listening to their complaints!

[CharlieJ]

A friend of mine sails a boat called a Windjammer. 21 foot gaff rigged boat. The cockpit seats in that boat are intentionally low, but there are slatted seats, with folding backs that sit on top of the built in parts. You could do the same and raise the new seats as high as you needed, then have the backs be a comfortable height for you.

Sure would be easier than lowering that sole.

[Tim]

I doubt lowering the sole is a viable option, unless you really want to go the boom-tent route to keep water out when you're not using the boat (which might be preferable to allowing the cockpit to fill partially or completely with water when unattended).

While only your onsite measurements can determine whether your sole has any room to be lowered without being below the waterline, I suspect that on a boat that small the cockpit is probably about at its lowest limit as is. This is certainly the case on most small boats, including Tritons, Ariels, and others. You might have an inch or two to play with.

Forget being pooped; it'll never happen to the vast majority of us. But the convenience factor of a self-bailing cockpit is well worth the compromises required to keep the sole above the waterline, in my opinion.

Draining the cockpit into the bilge is not a good idea, I don't think. It wouldn't take much to have this become a serious problem.

In addition to the difficulties and practical compromises that lowering your sole might introduce, there's also the problem of your cockpit width, which you say is also uncomfortable for you. Charlie's backrest answer might do the trick for you, though it also doesn't address the width issue. Maybe you can live with the width, in which case the movable backrests might be a good solution.

Dare I say that perhaps if your boat doesn't fit you right, that maybe you look for another boat? This might seem drastic (though from your Alberg 35 post it would seem that you're already exploring the possibility of a different boat), but a boat has to fit the sailor inside, and vise-versa. Plenty of people have eventually found a need, often based on their personal comfort, to go to a different--though not necessarily larger--boat so that they can fit better in a bunk, or the cockpit, or have standing headroom, or what have you.

You might love your Eastwind, but if you get uncomfortable sailing her, perhaps there's another boat that you'd find more comfortable that could steal your heart equally.

[Duncan]

I think you're both right - sometimes I have to say something out loud or write it down before I realize that I'm stretching something too far.

You're quite right, Tim, I don't think the Eastwind's my ultimate boat. I'd like to do another trip with it, but that's about as far as it goes, in my thinking at this point. I rescued it from being abandoned, on the grounds of being a capable pocket-cruiser in decent shape, for hardly any money. As I was getting ready to sail her home, the boys working at at the boatyard kept coming around patting me on the back, and helping out a bit. They told me they'd hated to see her just sitting there, but that management wouldn't let any of them buy it.

So, it's sort of partly sentimental, and mostly "just for fun". I am learning about things (like rebuilding the diesel and making a trailer), so the projects are sort of building the bank of experience. There's no point going "overboard", though, and I certainly don't want to get into one of those "what was he thinking?" kind of projects!

On the other hand, some things are fun to do, and it's nice to know I'm not spoiling a Hinckley by fooling around a bit. I have a couple of ideas for the the cabin...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, and I'm just starting to think about what to do this spring, so nothing is imminent!

[Shoalcove]

Why not add extentions to the coamings for back support. I don't have a photo but I have seen pictures of Concordia yawls that had a 'ladderback" extention that stows in a locker but slips over the coaming when needed. A couple of those would be a nice shop project to pass a Montreal winter. If the seat back was 12" high or so, it would offer a lot of support and then perhaps you could get a nice seat cushion to raise the seat a couple inches for a better leg angle. Or you could check out the Sport-a-seats that WestMarine and others sell. They get good reviews and transfer nicely to the next boat!