Questionable Classic

[PGplastic]

Hi all:

My first post. I was wondering if you thought the Com-Pac yachts are considered classics. I currently sail a CP-16 (1989). Currently, this model is not in production as they are concentrating on different models. To me, they have a classic look.

However, she does have "issues." You know, things like neglected standing rigging, severely weathered wood (what little there is)(notice I won't call it brightwork when it looks this bad), gelcoat cracks, and blisters. The ballast in the keel of these little boats is concrete (400#). It apparently is OK at this point, but on the very bottom of the keel there is a crack. I fear there may be a little delamination in that area as well.

So, I found this forum and was inspired to take on these upcoming projects. Maybe if I'm successful with this little boat, I may move up in size later on.

[Ric in Richmond]

I'd say so.

Has style, plastic, makes you happy when you turn back to look at it after a good sail....

That is a classic...

Welcome!

Have fun!

[Tim]

We're not real picky on definitions here! I'll second what Ric said above. What really matters in any event is that you love your boat and want to make her the best she can be.

[bcooke]

ditto, if you want to start a flame war here (not that I am recomending the practice) try getting the readership to define what a classic is :-)

I had a CP 19 for a couple of years and spent a couple of months one year cruising in Maine. It did the job but I swore my next boat would have standing headroom in the cabin. Com Pacs aren't for everyone but what they do they do really well -shoal draft, large capacity, easy sailing, classic look (topsides at least), easy to trailer...

Welcome to the forum.

-Britton

[PGplastic]

Thanks for the replies and the welcome. 'Tis true that they do what they were designed to do rather well; shoal draft and trailerable. I sail on a mountain lake, a larger lake down river, and plan to adventure into Core Sound and Pamlico Sound. Probably singlehanded or one other crew.

Eventually, I'll move to a larger boat. I'll take my time. Measured in years. :) This forum and links have inspired me to press further in pursuit.

Thanks again.

Paul

[PGplastic]

Update on my first project:

I have sanded the bottom paint off and found more blisters than I can count. Have ground some, popped some, and scraped some only to find they are dry. When I grind the select few down to the fiberglass, I find small pin holes. Looks like most of the gelcoat needs to come off. It's a small boat so this shouldn't be a big problem.

However, as I mentioned in the original post, the keel is filled with concrete. Found some bigger blisters on the bottom of the keel. Popped them and found they were dry, too. Popping these is much like cracking a hard boiled egg! A layer of gelcoat comes off leaving a white surface underneath, then fiberglass under that thin layer. Tapping this area suggests a hollow area in some places. Other places sound very solid. Drilled a hole (3/8") in a hollow area to find no delamination, no water, only a concrete surface.

1) Could I safely assume there is a small void somewhere in the concrete?

2) Prior to the epoxy barrier coat, do I have to lay fiberglass?

3) Do you think the builder had an off day the day they laid up the fiberglass, since the hull appears to be dry?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

[Tim]

1) Could I safely assume there is a small void somewhere in the concrete?

Well, yes...but I'd say this for just about any boat with this construction. The possibility of at least small voids is very high in any concrete structure. It doesn't mean there is any particular problem with the construction, though--at least not necessarily. And whether there is or not, it probably has little bearing on anything else you've described, or on the overall condition of the boat.

2) Prior to the epoxy barrier coat, do I have to lay fiberglass?

Generally no, but in severe blistering cases where the hull requires full or partial peeling, or so many blisters ground out that material needs to be replaced to maintain the structural integrity of the hull.

From your description, I'd say this would be unnecessary, but if you start grinding away a lot of material, that would change things.

3) Do you think the builder had an off day the day they laid up the fiberglass, since the hull appears to be dry?

I'm trying to properly envision, based on your description, what exactly you're seeing in your hull. Small pinholes may well just be a factor of inferior gelcoat porosity, which is a common problem. They aren't blisters, and don't normally indicate serious problems.

Gelcoat cracking with or without loose sections peeling away are also indicative of problems with the quality of the gelcoat and its application--again, common issues that many manufacturers have had at one time or another.

Small voids in the laminate, particularly in the skin coat (the first layer of laminate beneath the gelcoat) are extremely common, but their existence doesn't necessarily point to serious structural flaws, blisters, or a need for drastic repair action. In some cases, yes: small voids can lead to the formation of hydraulic blisters, which are the worst-case scenario type that you might have read about. Hydraulic blisters form from a reaction between salts and minerals in seawater and the styrene component of the resin used to build the boat. This chemical mix, once formed, can begin to degrade surrounding areas and, when in true existence, is a serious problem. But truly serious hydraulic blistering cases are a lot more rare than the hysteria in the marine media would have you believe. Most blisters are far less destructive, and rarely require the worst-case scenario treatments.

Air pockets, however, are not blisters in the strictest sense of the word. You're finding, it sounds like, small voids in your gelcoat and/or initial laminate layers, all of which are dry and are not invasive. Perhaps they contained some moisture when the boat was in the water, but have since dried out. You've seen no fluid when you open the pockets, leading me to believe that they are indicative more of poor gelcoat quality/application problems and overall uncareful lamination and constriction, but not really a serious issue requring drastic action.

Of course, I'm not there to see the problem directly either and I might be misinterpreting the information. But there's a big difference--in overall severity and in the means of repair and treatment---between minor gelcoat voids that might or might not fill with water, and such voids that contain the water and begin the chemical reaction that causes more significant structural issues. Remember that all laminates absorb some amount of moisture when in the water, and gelcoat is porous enough to allow water to enter into existing construction voids ("latent defects"), which may cause the formation of something blister-like in appearance. But these aren't necessarily harmful in the way that true hydraulic blistering can be.

With the Chicken Little-esque hype and hysteria in the marine press, it's logical and understandable for many people to worry that they may be uncovering horrible things in the bottoms of their boats. But it's kind of like reading about a medical problem--suddenly, you might feel as if you have the affliction yourself. Sort of a psycho-somatic thing. But the scary horror stories you read about blisters or other issues rarely prove to be what YOU have in your own boat, just like you rarely manage to contract a terrible disease just from reading about it on WebMD or something. So I try to pull the problem into the proper perspective, at least based on what information I have.

As always, the more complete the description and visual documentation, the clearer the overall issue becomes and the more valuable the resulting advice becomes!

[PGplastic]

Tim:
Thanks for your reply. I think we are "seeing" the same thing.

Paul