Cockpit Hatch Drainage

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Tim
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Cockpit Hatch Drainage

Post by Tim »

Part of the Daysailor's cockpit design includes the two flush hatches in the center, which provide clear access to the bilge and engine room. These hatches are a key component, and seemed the best way to provide this access, both in terms of construction ease and eventual usability down the road.

At this point in the construction, the hatches remain simple plywood cutouts from the cockpit sole. The two pieces simply rest on the longitudinal cockpit beams.
Image

I am now faced with coming up with a way to make these hatches essentially water-resistant--that is, leak proof enough to resist normal amounts of rainwater, washdowns, and sea spray from normal usage. I have no need, nor intention, to make the hatches completely watertight.

If possible, I hope to keep the hatches flush (or nearly so) with the surrounding sole. I have not yet determined what the final covering of the sole will be--wood or paint.

I've been brainstorming a few ideas about how to make the hatches reasonably waterproof, and have come up with a couple possible solutions. Don't bother telling me I should have engineered this solution before building; I know that, but that's simply not the way I work--often to my detriment, but then I usually find the answers afterwards anyway.

I am seeking any and all input on this issue. To aid in your visualizing the situation as it currently stands, please refer to the following photos.

This shows the opening with the larger of the two hatches removed. The plywood rests on the longitudinal cockpit beams, with about 7/8" of flat bearing space. The beam itself extends beyond the fixed cockpit deck another 7/8", for a total width of about 1-3/4".
Image

One thing that must be avoided in the answer to this problem is that the flat bearing surface of the deck beams must not have direct contact with water on a regular basis. In other words, installing some sort of scupper channel on the inside edges of these beams, which would collect the water conveniently, is not acceptable, since all water would enter the gap between the hatch and the sole and it is likely that water would stagnate on that flat area. This would lead to eventual rot and other problems, even if the area is epoxy-sealed. It's just not sound, long-term practice to allow this to happen.
Image

Therefore, the solution needs to prevent this occurrence. Minor and isolated amounts of water getting into this joint are natural, and can be tolerated by the construction. The key is that I don't want this to be a regular and normal occurrence. I need to keep the water away from the top of the deck beam.

The 7/8" bearing surface of the deck beam is required to remain flat in order to properly support the sole hatches. Therefore, applying a bevel of some sort, while on the surface an easy solution, will not work. I also don't want to reduce the width of that bearing surface, since the sole hatches, being in the middle of the main part of the cockpit, will bear the brunt of usage and weight.

There is room (and access) outboard of the longitudinal deck beams, and one solution we've knocked around involves installing some channels beneath the sole, outboard of the beams, and extending the hatches over the top of the beams so that the new edge would allow drainage into this channel. Of course a cut through the top of the cockpit sole would be required to open up the new channel, and possibly some additional reinforcement beneath the sole.
Image

By rabbetting the upper portion of the edges of the existing flush hatches, as well as the existing cockpit sole above the beams (say, 3/8" of the 3/4" thickness), then installing new 3/8" plywood "wings" to the center hatches, this solution seems like it might be the easiest--and perhaps the most effective. Obviously, any potential solution will most likely require some substantial cutting and reconfiguration of the area, but that can be dealt with easily enough.

Another possibility, though less savory, was actually my first thought: make the center hatches a bit taller than the surrounding sole, with the new edges extending into a routed scupper around the edges. I would prefer, however, to maintain the flush nature of the hatches.

Note that any scuppers installed around the hatches will end up plumbed at the forward (lowest) edge for overboard drainage, probably teed into the main cockpit scuppers.

I am interested in any and all thoughts, and open to suggestions based on the ultimate requirements. If my descriptions are unclear, please ask for clarification. Thanks!
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Figment
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Post by Figment »

The first question that popped into my head:
Is this cockpit sole going to be the actual sole, or are you planning on some sort of a teak grate as the actual standing surface?

A grate would forgive any drainage channels.
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

There may be a grate; this is not yet determined. The ultimate construction of these water-resistant sole hatches may well determine whether or not a grate becomes necessary.

Put another way, I don't plan to build a grate "just because". But I don't discount the possibility, either.

To clarify further about these potential channels, note that under my second plan above, the channels would not be visible from deck. In fact, the hatch would look little different than it does now, other than a bit wider. If I could draw, I'd put together a drawing to show the idea a little better...and if pressed, will do so.
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Post by Peter »

Tim: How often do you think you'll need to open these?
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

The average user would probably open them infrequently, but all engine access and access to bilge pump and seacocks will require opening these hatches.
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Post by Commanderpete »

Any way you can gasket the edges of the hatch and bearing surface? Can you get rubber or plastic to firmly adhere to the plywood?

You might need some flush mount hatch locks to keep the hatches secure, which may also help squeeze things together.

Maybe just a tiny half-round scupper underneath the joint.
David

Cockpit Hatch---Why

Post by David »

Tim,

Why do you need such huge access under the cockpit? Just curious why you couldn't install say a couple of the hatches like you added to the cockpit of of Glissando?

David
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Post by Tim »

The hatches need to be large enough not only to install or remove the engine, but also to work on it. Also, the fuel tank and batteries will be in this space. There is no other access to the area beneath the cockpit, so it all has to happen through these hatches.

The long hatch also allows full and proper access to the shaft and stuffing box. You'll be able to stand in the bilge forward of the engine, and the entire engine will be easily accessible for maintenance and service, as well as installation and removal.

It's a big hatch(s), but I'm a proponent of providing the sort of systems access that is lacking in most production boats.
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David

Post by David »

Tim,

The only full cockpit hatches I am familiar with are the kind that are a box-type conventional hatch constrruction that fits down over a lip in the cockit floor. If the hatch were large enough you would basically just have a "channel" around it (formed by the floor of the cockpit) with your scuppers forward. A grate could secure over the whole area to stand on. Weathestripping on the underside of the hatch would seal against the tip of the lip the hatch fits down on. You could add some latches to keep it in place.

Good luck with your solution.

David
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Post by Tim »

That shoebox type was my initial thought, and still might have merit--particularly if I were to build a grate around it that would make the whole arrangement flush. There's no question that a shoebox lid with an internal frame is not only appropriately watertight, but the simplest to build.

I figured it would make sense to poll the group and see if anyone had a brilliant idea that I hadn't thought of.

My proposed solution earlier in the thread is decidedly complex to build. We'll see.
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Post by JetStream »

Hi Tim,
I like the shoe box. I wonder if you ever considered a molded fiberglass hatch for the shoe box model. Then it would be lighter and could potentially be hinged as well as latched. A good model could be the big hatches on the after deck of some of the new sport fishing boats with less than 12" of freeboard from the deck height to the waterline. It should be fairly easy to make the mold and some of your hardware requirements could be molded in. For the best fit, the frame would probably also need to be molded but could also include the proper recess for a very nice gasket.
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Post by Robert The Gray »

hey tim,
Idea 1
I wonder if a type of rupper bead would work. Somthing like a "T" shape with the leg of the "T" sliding into the gap between the edge of the hatch and the deck. the top of the "T" would have a slight curve and would lye flat of the deck creating a mild seal. I wonder if there are sections of rubber gasket material that are used to join two pieces of metal or glass together in the commercial building trade. the instalation of the hatch would be by forcing this bead into the gap. remove the bead and the hatch comes out.

idea 2
place some kind of pan in the hatch opening before intalling a cover. this pan would be light wieght and serve as the path for the water. kinda like a shower pan.

Both of these ideas are full of holes and may not serve any purpose other than closing off areas of pursuit. I think a little over lap and a grate would be the way I would go.

RObert
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Post by Figment »

The shoebox lid concept has merit. Rather than dealing with the water after it penetrates the hatch, it prevents much of the pentration in the first place.

The upturned lip, however, should have some beef to it. Enough so that one can bear an elbow down onto it without undue pain while arthritically hoisting oneself up out of the bilge.
In other words.... think of the narrow upturned edge of the Triton's foredeck hatch flange (before you cut it flush and did your shiny new hatch on Glissando), and do the opposite. ;)
miamiagain

hatch

Post by miamiagain »

i favor a flanged lip witht the t shaped bed underneath (not unlike a refridgerator no? anyways..) I know the tripping hazard of a raised panel sucks maybe wide bevel edge? but why not flush mount hatch locks too that nestle into the channel? Idea #2 which I like even more is a raised lip in the deck area sunken in a wider area of the deck so the raised part is flush with the over all deck level - with the edges given a good 5200 coating and have that edge recess into the lid? then run your channels to the scuppers along sides for the extra drainage? thats about all the remaining brain cells are coughing up tonight. Love the web site!
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