Plastic Classic Forum

I re-bedded my caprails 3 years ago and so far have had no leaks. However, with the years, they are getting thinner especially on the inboard side. The previous owner had secured them with sheet metal screws along with finishing washers most likely because the thinning caprails can no longer accept inset screws and bungs. My questions are the following:
1. What is the general process involved in replacing the caprails? Are the new ones cut out of wider planks to accommodate the curves? How are templates made for the new ones?
2. Once the caprails are off there is the opportunity to improve the deck hull joint. How do you cover all the previous screw holes from the original rails? On the post 1970 Albergs, the joint was riveted instead of thru-bolted. Do you drill out the rivets and replace them with machine screws with bolts? Are 10/24 screws sufficient?
Thank you

When I replaced the teak cap rails on a 1972 A30 I figured I had three choices - steam bend planks to shape, force them into place with clamps, or cut the curve out of wider planks. Steam bending didn't seem practical. I didn't want to spend the money and time to cut them out of wide planks. Since I was using 5/8 x 1 3/4" I figured I could torture the planks into shape by pulling them in with clamps and tackle. It worked but was a huge struggle that I wouldn't want to repeat. Next time I'd cut them out by laying each plank in place and tracing the hull curve on the bottom of the planks. Complicating the job is the stepped joint in the top of the hull to deck joint overlap which means a rabbet needs to be cut out of thicker teak, minimum 7/8". Since I was going to repaint the topsides I decided to save money on teak and milling a rabbet by filling the deck joint flush with silica thickened epoxy and using flat planks. Here's the sizes I ordered with smooth (surfaced) finish. Cost was just under $400 from maritime Wood Products in FL in 2013.

eight pieces 5/8" x 1 3/4" x 7'6" (if cutting shape out of wide planks, 5" wide should be sufficient since you can always bend them slightly in if not a perfect fit).
one piece 5/8" x 5 3/4" x 6' for taffrrail (I cut it in two and then cut to fit the curve of transom since it was too wide to bend)

I drilled out every old hole oversize to clean them and filled with thickened epoxy or new 1/4 machine screws backed by washers and nyloks. #10 machine screws might be good enough but I used countersunk 1/4 to be certain. I don't recall if I drilled out the aluminum rivets for the the new screws or just ground the heads flush and put the new screws in different hole spacing. Either way will work. After dry fitting I installed with black polysulfide. Use plenty to fill the exposed edge of the fiberglass joint under the wood if keeping the original wood rabbet method.

Thank you for such a detailed reply! I have seen your video on how you fitted a slotted aluminum toe-rail onto a pre-1970 A30. Would this work on the newer style Alberg with the raised joint? Is this a more practical albeit less traditional setup? I would think you can eliminate the genoa track altogether and just attach the blocks to the aluminum toe-rail.

I can't think of any reason the aluminum toe rail won't work on top the fiberglass toe rail. It's more practical in the sense that it adds strength and height and attachment points and is less maintenance. Saves trees too. Cost is higher but installation is less labor. I don't see it eliminating the need for a jib sheet track unless you could come up with a way to easily adjust the sheeting angle and not have the blocks rattling. When you adjust the sheet block on a track it is still captive but if you need to disconnect it entirely from a toe rail using a snap shackle then the flogging sail can pull it out of your hands and maybe unsure you. Maybe there's a work around for that.

I am restoring an Alberg and I would like to not replace my cap rails .. even though its a topic twist .. is it possible to to after replacing the bolts on my hull o deck joint to replace the now removed teak cap rail toe rail with something other than teak or wood. I am rebuilding my boat with no exterior wood if possible.
Trying to come up with some alternative to finish off the cap rail to cover the hull joint bolts.

Probably the best alternative to teak is an aluminum toe rail as I describe on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CivvqwU64eI

Appears in this video that you deck is flush to the edge?.. My Alberg 30 has a raised glass lip about 2" high which the hull top is bolted to the hull. My teak cap rail sat on top of this 2" high x 1.5" wide lip. Only seam to show on this seems to be on the outer hull side. I need to take a picture of it an post it. Don't think that the aluminum rail you used would fit well... Teak cap was on top of this so total height was about 3.5"

Apparently you have a late model A30 with fiberglass toe rail and thin teak cap rail on top of that. The early models have a flush fiberglass deck with about a 2" teak toe rail. Since your signature says your boat is a 1968 I assumed you had the early model, which is the type I fit the aluminum toe rail on. But I also replaced the teak cap on the late model A30 with new teak and the lip on the outside edge of the deck was not 2" as noted in your sketch. The lip was only 1/4" high and no reason the lip of the aluminum toe rail would not fit over it after I filled it in with thickened epoxy. There's not much more I can add but if you want to clarify this you can PM me with your phone number.

Edit: I see the 2807 model toe rail I used has an inside width of 1.75" which should work and only overhang the inside fiberglass toe rail by 1/8" but I see they only list it now in 24' lengths rather than the 31' I got a few years ago. You can contact them for a recommendation or look at other options here:

https://crestaluminum.com/toerail.htm

I should have mentioned the Alberg Identity Hull 397 1969 Wind Call. I will take a picture of the area in question today if I have the time...

You didn't say the reason you are avoiding exterior wood on your boat. Assuming it is because of maintenance, and you already have the teak toe rail more or less intact, you could take it off and seal all sides in epoxy resin, install and paint with a two-part paint.

This is the toe rail minus the 5/8 thick teak rail. The teak was not salvageable. I don't want any wood on the exterior if possible and very little on the inside.

I guess if I have to put wood back and cant come up with any alternatives I suppose I could use wood seal it up and epoxy and paint.

Not a terribly important project at this point .. I just saw a conversation and was thinking of maybe there was some sort of alternative possibilities rather than teak or wood that I had yet to come across.

Hi James,
I have decided to go for the aluminum toe rail instead of the teak or iroko cap-rail. I feel it will be more practical, add more of an I-beam strength to the deck-hull joint and I won’t be promoting deforestation.

Here is a link to their toe rail page. https://www.crestaluminum.com/toerail.htm

Have you noticed that they offer a T-Track incorporated into the toe rail #2817? Do you think this is a good idea or would it be best to use a separate T-Track further inboard?

We also discussed filling the step in the flange with thickened epoxy. Is this step still necessary with the aluminum toe rail?

Thanks again,
Marcelo

That combo toe rail/sheet track looks like a possible solution. Apparently the bottom edges of the two different tracks line up but the tops don't so I guess they expect you round off the ends of the taller ones where they would have a cut edge that's taller so it doesn't snag things and looks better than a sharp corner. You might ask them about that. They don't supply full 31' lengths any more so you'd have to cut and butt them up somewhere anyway. It doesn't matter if the track is a couple inches inboard and separate or not. If you don't mind the uneven tops then it will save you some work and more holes in the deck. The toe rail/track piece can then be longer without interfering with a stanchion. You may want to pre-bend your tracks before cutting since it may be difficult to bend short pieces with less leverage.

It looks like that outside flange will cover the 1/4" or so of the stepped flange so you can just fill that with sealant when doing the final assembly.

Good afternoon,
I spoke to the Crest Aluminum people the other day to inquire about their toe rails. As mentioned before, they only make them in 24 ft lengths. They run around $563 per 24fth length. I decided against the toerail/T-track combo due to aesthetics and hanging up of lines on the edges. Shipping could be an additional $300. One of my concerns is how to transport these long pieces to the marina for installation. They offered to cut them in half at no additional charge. This would mean I would have to install two 12 ft sections and an additional 6 ft section at the stern per side. My concern would be bending the 6 ft section. Is this possible?
Thanks.
Marcelo
A30. #441

I think getting them cut into 12' sections would work. I'd get all 12' pieces and cut my own end pieces after fitting the forward and center pieces to get the exact length needed. The stern pieces should require the least amount of bend and you can do that either by anchoring them to something rigid and sliding a PVC tube over one end for leverage (maybe use a second larger tube over the first one if the pvc bends too much) or rig up a hydraulic bottle jack in the center with the two ends anchored to something. If you can't find fence posts or two close trees spaced correctly then you might move the car near a tree or post and use one tire as the other anchor point.