Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post photos and descriptions of your ongoing projects here. No project is too big or too small.
Post Reply
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

I have just moved a Nantucket Clipper infront of my house so I can make her new again. Her hull was peeled, engine, head and galley removed, all bilges exposed and she has sat in the dry for 10 years. Her exterior teak and hatches are off and needing replacement. It does need some rigging and sails too. It is a complete project. Now that I have her home, I'm starting to go through from bowsprit to stern light.
Can anyone advise me on where to start?
With refinishing a hull after the gellcoat was peeled, can the faired glass be finished with a two part bottom paint like a polyurethane? I have used this on my previous boat and had excellent results.

My idea is to refinish the hull, overhaul the engine, install wiring, plumbing, tanks then interior. For the exterior wood I plan to replace the teak with a very dense local wood called Boise De Arc. I had a tree fall in an ice storm and had it cut into planks 2"-3" thick. Also called Osage Orange, it is very rot resistant and slightly heavier than teak. The grain is tight and finishes out nicely. I have a couple of pieces that can replace the 6' long and 18" wide bowsprit and enough to cut out side caps, rub and toerails. I will let the wood season for a while before I plane it and install the exterior pieces.
This is my second project boat after recoring a hull, fore and aft decks. This boat is solid fiberglass, it was peeled due to blisters which had wept for over a year. It has great characteristics and fits the dream lines I have had in my head for a long time.
Attachments
NC Starboard.jpg
Shoalcove
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:45 pm
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Shoalcove »

Welcome to the forum. You'll find a ton of info here (use search) for your project. I know I did. I'm not familiar with the type- how big is it? Any other photos?
Best of luck,
David
7 1/2' Nutshell Pram
Spindrift 11N
Perry designed CheoyLee35
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Quetzalsailor »

Looks like fun; good luck!

You're not the only one: http://nantucketclipper.org/AquariusHome.htm
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I meant to comment that Osage Orange is a worthy boat-building wood. Check out Sultana's website, a Chestertown MD replica wooden ship. It's pretty and tough, supposed to be reasonably rot resistant. I don't know about it's willingness to hold an exterior finish or whether it's prone to checking. Google it.
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Rachel »

Welcome to the forum, sailingbud, and I hope you'll show us a bit more of your boat.
sailingbud wrote:
With refinishing a hull after the gellcoat was peeled, can the faired glass be finished with a two part bottom paint like a polyurethane? I have used this on my previous boat and had excellent results.
Are you speaking of the topsides (hull between waterline and gunwale) or the bottom (below the waterline)? If the topsides, then I think a two-part polyurethane would be a great topcoat. If you're speaking of the bottom, then I would think a dedicated bottom paint would be the way to go, specific "flavor" somewhat dependent on where you plan to keep or sail her. (Polyurethanes don't do too well below the waterline.)

Again, welcome,

Rachel
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

Thanks for the welcome to the forum. This obcession is my favorite passtime these days. It is great to be able to work on a project that has a potential to give so much back.
For those not familliar with Nantucket Clippers it is an English boat designed by Allan Buchanon and several hundred were built mostly with yawl rigging but some as sloops. It has a long wide bowsprit leading to 31'8"LOA but a fairly short water line of 21' and a beam of 9'. The keel is 3/4 full with 4000lbs of encapsulated lead for a ballast/disp ratio of .45+. Its standard auxillary engine is a 10hp sabb diesel with a variable pitch prop. The engine is very simple and has electric starting as well as a hand crank, just not much power. My boat was built to Lloyds specs for the North Atlantic and has crossed the Atlantic with its original owner. She was then cruised around the Carribbean and stayed in warm water. The second owner had blister problems after several years living aboard they pulled her out, peeled the hull and left her in a barn to dry out. 10 years later I am bringing her back to life. The former owner of a sistership told me that it was the best boat he had ever sailed out of San Fransisco. He told me he could hit the wind blasting out the bay and dump the main leaving the boat perfectly balanced with the jib and mizzen to fly out to sea. Other owners have told me that it is a very stable platform and dry. It is a boat built to take a pounding.
To finish the peeled hull I am considering using a barrier product that is a 100% epoxy (not polyurethane) that I have used to finish clean room floors and also the bottom paint for my Flying Scot. This epoxy finishes very thick and hard. It bonds extreemly well to fiberglass and still has flexibility even where on a trailer rail. In my thinking it is a better bond than gelcoat and nearly as hard as porcelain. I've had one coat covering the topsides and bottom for about 2 years and not one crack or anything. I have never refinished a hull that has had the gelcoat peeled. Can anyone tell me if I can use a couple of coats of this thick epoxy then another couple of coats of teflon urethane antifouling without laying up biaxial cloth/mat? This hull is very thick already and even though it has been peeled I don't know what I would get from more cloth/mat other than another barrier coat. I'll work on some more pictures. Most of what I have now are showing cradle and trailering wide load details.
Attachments
Bow.jpg
door.jpg
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Quetzalsailor »

She looks sandblasted, to me, not peeled. Read some more and get back to us all. Several boats in our marina were sandblasted this spring and at least one Island Packet has had multiple layers of epoxy barrier coat applied over a pretty clean, blasted gelcoat.

I'd like to have our boat peeled and I'd then have new glass in epoxy laid up to replace what had been removed. In fact, my boat was sandblasted before we bought her, and not faired and was barrier-coated with something gummy.

A little extra 'glass does not add to the effective weight as much as you might think; it adds displacement, too.
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

The hull was either peeled or ground down with some kind of flat blade device. There are tool marks on the water line that still need to be faired. The original owner was a master shipbuilder who died about 5 years ago. He was planning to lay on one layer of biaxial cloth/mat with vinylester resin. I am thinking this will be unnecessary since the hull is built very strong andI can put several coats of expoy that will finish out nicely and reduce more sanding and expense. I have enough epoxy to put 4 or 5 coats and then finish with a good bottom paint.
If putting more glass down will add strength then I won't sacrifice that but my understanding is that these hulls were built like tanks to begin with and as long as the epoxy coating is not compromised the inner part dried for 10 years should be good.
One Way David
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:46 pm
Boat Type: Pearson Ensign
Location: Kansas

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by One Way David »

Osage Orange, Bois 'D Arc, Hedge is tough wood. Very dense. You don't mention where you are located but I know of hedge from Texas to Nebraska through the Mid-West US. Depending on the local growing conditions, it can have very tight growth rings (preferred). It dries well if treated properly. It splits fairly easily (A very popular choice for self bows amoung native Americans).

My brother pulled a 8' long 8"diameter piece I had stored in the barn fro a fence post. I came along 10 years later and pulled up the fence post and made a bow out of it. Other than no bark, it looked like it had been cut the day before.

Our farm has fence posts planted over 75 years ago, still standing. After about 10 years, it is impossible to drive a nail into it. I've even tried concrete nails and they bend like coat hanger wire. Sharp instruments will cut it, rather scrape it. As in rip, chainsaw, scraper... The blades will dull pretty fast.

It is a bright orange/yellow color when first cut. It begins to darken to a deep mahogany color from exposure to sunlight.

My Ensign has a lot of rot down below in the "v berth" and bilge. The seats, combings and sole are ok. I plan to construct the floor and all other supporting wood structures with hedge.

The major draw backs are that sawers don't like to cut it (there are often metal foreign bodies in it being from fences) and borer beatles love it.

Probably more than anyone wanted to know about hedge.
Never finish all your projects or you'll be bored.
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

After careful consideration and email contact with owners of sisterships, I am laying up biaxial cloth/mat below the waterline with vinylester resin. My thoughts on vinylester resin is that is provides good bonding, flexability and blister barrier characteristics. I have epoxy paint to use over the vinylester layer for another barrier coat before finishing with teflon bottom paint designed to work with the epoxy barrier coat. My hope is to finish a hull and to never see another blister form.
I invite opinions of this technicue.
The Froon
Almost a Finish Carpenter
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:18 pm
Boat Name: TBD
Boat Type: Westsail 32
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by The Froon »

Why not go with epoxy resin instead of the vinylester? The epoxy resin will have the greater mechanical bond strength versus the vinylester...and while your neck deep in building up the hull, why not use the best materials...

Brian
Ryan
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: NE GA

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Ryan »

I agree with Brian regarding the use of epoxy. After my own research and correspondence with folks on this board regarding resins and repairs, I would only use epoxy. Vinylester has some attractive qualities for the production boat builder and busy yards, primarily price and ease of use. However, it seems that you are intent to do this job once, and do it right, and for me that means epoxy and nothing less. Good Luck!

Ryan
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

I was under the impression that vinylester had superior bonding characteristics attaching to polyester material which is what I'm sure the original job is and that epoxy would be more less flexable. I haven't worked with vinylester before but I have seen epoxy that became brittle.
I am hoping to get advice from the forum people with experience so I can choose the best product. The only materials I already have is a gallon of epoxy paint that I plan to use as an outer barrier coat.
Case
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:59 pm

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Case »

I'll like to comment on vinylester resin...

It is a great resin. It is commonly used to prevent blisters. However, it is usually used for "new builds". When you are starting from scratch, building a new boat... vinylester resin is used. It is much cheaper than epoxy. Since you're laying fresh fiberglass and resin, there generally are no bonding problems.

But your boat is old now. Vinylester do not bond as well to cured fiberglass compared to epoxy. Epoxy is king in for bonding to old fiberglass (also for wood, too). Vinylester is commonly used in repairs... by boat yards. Boatyards choose vinylester because its cheaper than epoxy! Many people have their boats repaired by the boatyard so vinylester shows up more often than epoxy in discussions. I doubt going with epoxy will cost more than 200 bucks over vinylester resin. I don't think its worth saving 200 bucks for a nasty job you only want to do once.

- Case
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Rachel »

This is interesting. I knew that polyester resin had inferior secondary bonding characteristics, but I did not know that Vinylester was the same in that regard. I was thinking that Vinylester was nearly the equivalent of epoxy (not in chemical make-up, but in "goodness"). I also thought that Vinylester was close to epoxy for barrier characteristics.

However, I tend to use epoxy in any case, because I hate the smell of the "esters," so maybe I have not been paying close enough attention.

Rachel
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

That is interesting. Saving money is not the reason for using vinylester. I was attracted to a resin that I thought had good bonding and flexability. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now for another boatyard idea that I was given by an "Expert" plastic man. Is it true that adding a cap of acetone to a quart of epoxy will help it wet better and to be more flexible, less brittle, after it is cured?

Walter
stone
Rough Carpentry Apprentice
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wilmington,NC

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by stone »

My experience with Vinylester is different than with Case,in fact in direct contrast. I have been using it for quite some time and have never had any failure with it. If this were my boat I would go with the Vinylester simply because it is alot easier to laminate with(I am often working by my self)and I believe it would flex and move better with the existing hull better than epoxy would. Kool boat btw.
Triton 185
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:38 am
Boat Type: O'day Mariner, Pearson Triton
Location: Canada

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by Triton 185 »

However, I tend to use epoxy in any case, because I hate the smell of the "esters," so maybe I have not been paying close enough attention.
I'm the same. I remember my first big job using epoxy and was surprised that there was no smell at all.
"The more you know, the less you need."
Yvon Chouinard
sailingbud
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Wasasha
Boat Type: Nantucket Clipper, Flying Scot

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by sailingbud »

Homework is done. I'm placing my order for biaxial cloth and epoxy resin.
The way it has been explained to me by a chemist is that in the way of bonds, Epoxy has a much more complex system of crosslinks and bonds that attach with more strength than vinyl ester resin that bonds in a way similar to wrapping a single coil around a rod where the epoxy crosses back and forth crosslinking and holding more places and more rods with a lot more strength. The figure that sticks in my head is that epoxy bonds with 2000psi and vinyl ester bonds hold at 500psi.
I can't say I can tell you exactly where all those PSIs are attaching but if it is bonding to the old fiberglass that I want to seal off from the ocean than I'll take all the bonds I can get.
Another characteristic I read about was that vinyl esters keep curing throughout their age so what is connected now might not be connected in 20 more years. I have heard that epoxy is vulnerable to UV damage but I don't expect any UVs to be under my water line. If they are then I'm in big trouble. I should have a bit of paint on there anyway.
So thanks for all the insight about resins. I have a lot more stuff to figure out about this jigsaw puzzle of a boat so I'll be posting about that after my hull work gets a little further along.
Walter
radicalcy
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:45 pm
Boat Name: AllAboutMe
Boat Type: Columbia 8.7
Location: Richmond,Va
Contact:

Re: Fresh life for Nantucket Clipper after 10 years in barn

Post by radicalcy »

You can add a barrier coat additive to the epoxy resin, and I believe there is a UV additive as well. I don't think either is needed if you're going to use an antifouling paint on the hull anyway. Hard or Ablative paint should give you plenty of UV protection. Just my opinion.
Larry Wilson
Columbia 8.7
Columbia Sabre
Post Reply