Galley countertops?

Trecksail · Post by **Trecksail** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:48 am

The galley was gutted when I got her and sadly enough, for 2 years she's been sailing with particle board from a discarded entertainment center. It's been functional and with more than enough other priority projects hasn't killed me. I do keep my eyes open for any nice wood, but nothing cheaply attainable as of yet to push it ahead on the list. Friends have tried to sway me in efforts to expedite the task, but I can't seem to get myself to consider anything other than a natural wood. Has anyone done any low budget countertops that they liked? Any thoughts/ideas on what I might be able to use/make?

Thanks in advance,
Joe

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:04 am

Plastic laminate (Formica) is fairly affordable and can look very nice. Here is my galley counter with just the fiddles in place and details yet to be completed:

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:26 am

That is simple (in the good way) and looks very neat and tidy. I actually like something like that - with the wood fiddles - better than an all-wood countertop.

R.

TritonSailor · Post by **TritonSailor** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:20 am

Speaking of that, do you normally reuse the wood that made up the structure of the interior or do you go with newer and more durable?

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:20 am

TritonSailor wrote:Speaking of that, do you normally reuse the wood that made up the structure of the interior or do you go with newer and more durable?

Yes.

Ok, now that I got the smart-ass answer out of my system:

I don't see how anyone can answer that with a simple definitive answer. In my case the counter looked terrible, but everything was sound. I removed the old fiddles, sanded the old laminate, applied new over it and made new fiddles. I saw no reason to tear anything apart.

In my case the front of the cabinets was fiberglass and simply needed a new finish. If it is plywood and more than cosmetically damaged then tearing it all out might be called for. If the front/base is sound and worthy of repair but the old laminate is separating from the counter core, it should be removed. If the old core is delaminating or an inferior material like particle board then replacing it would be a good idea.

A clean slate appeals to many people, but may not be required. I liked the lay out of my galley, at least I saw no significant improvement. It wasn't broke, so I didn't fix it.

Henk · Post by **Henk** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:28 pm

I used formica too. It is very inexpensive and (almost) doesn't scratch or stain. It comes in hundreds of different colours and patterns and is very easy to install. Make sure to use a router and nothing else to shape/cut the coutertop after the formica has been installed on the plywood. Here's a picture of my galley. I used the same stuff for the dinette table and the countertop in the head.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:23 pm

The galley was gutted when I got her and sadly enough, for 2 years she's been sailing with particle board from a discarded entertainment center. It's been functional and with more than enough other priority projects hasn't killed me. I do keep my eyes open for any nice wood, but nothing cheaply attainable as of yet to push it ahead on the list. Friends have tried to sway me in efforts to expedite the task, but I can't seem to get myself to consider anything other than a natural wood. Has anyone done any low budget countertops that they liked? Any thoughts/ideas on what I might be able to use/make?

Hi Joe,

Particle board (PB) is not a suitable core material for wet environments. You can purchase PB with a water resistant type 2 adhesive, but this is an expensive alternative and not as ideal a substrate as plywood for wet environments.

If you are going with plastic laminate overlay, the plywood you should choose has plies that are assembled with exterior glue and the sheet should have one face that is “good-one-side”. A GIS face provides an ideal surface for an overlay of a standard grade plastic laminate. The sanded good-one-side surface reduces the “telegraphing” of the plywood grain and other irregularities through the overlay.

You can make a counter out of solid laminated wood. It will be more expensive for the materials and time consuming to produce. As well, a solid wood counter will expand and contract along its width more than other types of materials. To accommodate this movement, ensure that the top is fastened to the cabinets with a method that allows it to independently expand and contract.

An alternative is to use a “construction grade” piece of plywood for a core and then laminate thin layers (1/4” to 3/16”) of solid onto the plywood. This type of exterior plywood has rotary cut softwood plies assembled with exterior glue.

For solid wood countertops, you should be concerned with the type of adhesive used – with regard to the absorption of these chemicals into food items. As well, ensure that you seal the wood with oil that is compatible for human consumption. I recommend non-polymerized Tung oil.

Hope this helps,

Stephen

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:32 pm

Triton 185 wrote: The sanded good-one-side surface reduces the “telegraphing” of the plywood grain and other irregularities through the overlay.

I can't imagine anything telegraphing through plastic laminates. Voids will produce a soft spot, and the possibility of cracking the laminate. Lumps will keep it from sitting hard on the core and cause problems as well. Good one side ply is certainly easier to use, but a lesser grade with the voids filled and a general sanding can work well also. Yes, you want a relatively smooth surface, but it is to assure a good bond and remove all chances of voids. The laminates are hard and quite resilient, no wood grain will show through.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:46 pm

Telegraphing is more noticeable with vertical grade laminates and those that have a high gloss melamine surface with little or no texture. Telegraphing occurs when there is uneven grain, a void, a lump, a joined surface that is not flush, or other core surface irregularity. Because of the thickness of the laminate, the defect will be less pronounced than what is visible on the core itself.

I agree that that a lesser grade of ply that is filled with voids will work well as long it is well sanded. Take the time to feel the plywood (core) with you hand to check for a nice even surface before installing the laminate. As well, ensure you blow both the core and laminate off with compressed air prior to applying adhesive. This will improve the bond.

Good luck with your project!

Stephen

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:22 pm

Stephen, I think you are talking about entirely different materials. The plastic laminate for counter tops (Formica, Wilson Art, Westinghouse Micarta) is extremely hard. You couldn't get any impression or emboss to show through if your life depended on it.

Tom Young · Post by **Tom Young** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:26 am

Custom Stainless work. This Walstead built boat a friend is refurbishing has a galley counter that's like a sink within a sink. Although it's dusty in this shot (they're working below), it appears just like new despite alot of hard use since 1966.

Too bad we can't get stuff like this done reasonably(if at all) any more.

earlylight · Post by **earlylight** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:45 am

Tom,

That is a little too much like a commercial kitchen to suit me, but I must admit that finding that kind of craftsmanship is next to impossible these days. I am in the process of collecting dutch delft tiles with boats and canal scenes on them in hopes of doing my galley counter in the future.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:48 am

Oh, one can find and have any level of craftsmanship one wants... one just has to be willing and able to pay the price!

earlylight · Post by **earlylight** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:19 pm

Oh, I'm sure you can get anything you want, but when the cost gets to some point, most of us will decide we no longer want that item. :-) I know a fellow who does custom stainless work for restaurant kitchens. Just for grins I will print that pic and ask him to give me a ball park estimate the next time I see him.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:01 pm

Custom Stainless work. This Walstead built boat a friend is refurbishing has a galley counter that's like a sink within a sink.

I think this Walstead boat has the same stainless top. Holger Danske has always been one of my favourite boats.

If you think stainless work is expensive - check out the asking price.

[/url] http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... _id=837116

LazyGuy · Post by **LazyGuy** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:56 pm

The galley shown on yacht world looks a little bit different than the one that Tom shows. Yikes, That is one beautiful boat but it appears to need half a gale to get to hull speed.

As for the Formica, I have applied Formica that I purchased at Home Cheapo and sure enough, after about two months you could see the grain imprinted through the Formica brand laminate in the center of the counter. That is one of the many reasons why "Agent Orange" is not the first place I go for building supplies.

Case · Post by **Case** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:44 pm

Ah Holger Danske...

That stern is gorgeous. I love it. Its perfectly done in my opinion. Probably the best looking double-ender stern of all double-enders.

Need a gale to move it? Hmm... SA/D apparently is about 16.76. That's higher than most plastic classics which tends to have SA/D between 15 to 15.50...

Studying old designs, I'm inclined to think that most good wooden designs from the 1930s to the 1950s may be faster than the comparable plastic classics. The SA/Ds are consistently higher. think its because the early fiberglass builders did not know the limits so built a bit too heavily.

- Case

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:55 am

The answer here is to use a quality substrate beneath the high-pressure laminate. Choosing inexpensive, heavy-grained fir plywood for anything is just asking for disappointment.

Tom Young · Post by **Tom Young** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:25 am

earlylight wrote:Tom,

That is a little too much like a commercial kitchen to suit me, but I must admit that finding that kind of craftsmanship is next to impossible these days. I am in the process of collecting dutch delft tiles with boats and canal scenes on them in hopes of doing my galley counter in the future.

I can see your point. The SS is stark, but once the drawers and doors are on, SS seems to fit pretty well. But it's the function about a one piece stainless top that I love. It's the type of galley you can really make a mess in cooking at sea and easily "hose" it all down.

This is a beauty from K Aage Nielsen. It's a simple boat built to a high degree without being overdone. While I really appreciate Nielsens beautiful canoe stern boats (they're are few in my harbor), it's his more CCA like designs that really thrill me.

The real beauty of this boat is the simple tried and true seagoing design, ample cockpit, galley port, enormous chart table starboard, settees and pilots outboard, large head, forward cabin, and nicely spread out in 43'. It's beautiful. Too big to get into my lense.

Not to mention, decks that feel like the walking track at the local YMCA.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:01 pm

I love those "all one piece" stainless galley arrangements. Drooool.

R.

earlylight · Post by **earlylight** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:18 pm

I talked to my friend who does the stainless work......For a modest price of between $9.5 and $11.5 K you too can have a stainless galley similar to that in the photo providing you are willing to do all the measuring and provide him a full set of drawings. Ohhhh yeah, you must also do the installation as well as any cabinet work you want in the galley. He will merely provide the stainless steel work. He will not go aboard a boat, thus the requirement that you measure and install.

Seems a wee bit too rich for my blood. :-(

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:44 pm

Custom stainless counters are not that expensive since they are hughly in vogue for home kitchens these days. If you look on the Internet you can find a number of fabricators who are quite reasonable. Try these folks estimating page to get an idea:

http://www.stainlessliving.com/countert ... ulator.asp

I plan to have a custom sink built for the B29. It will be in stainless and the bottom slanted down to a central drain about 30 degrees on each side so the sink will drain completely on either tack.

Case · Post by **Case** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:19 pm

That stainless living website is interesting. A nice source!

I do have to point out one thing:

The website shows the stainless steel counters. Not the sink itself. There's a cutout for the sink to go in.

That stainless steel counter in the old Walsted has a sink included, entirely one piece. That little feature costs big $$$. I think the 9.5 to 11.5k quote probably includes that bit.

The costs of doing stainless steel counters then adding a stainless steel sink would certainly be much more reasonable.

There is another source that many people forget about... Craigslist. Lots of caterers and restaurants are going kaput now in this fantastic economy. So if you have some skills working with stainless steel, that's your source for cheap stainless steel counters/sinks.

- Case

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:30 pm

Wish I didn't see that stainless combo...

I love it.

It deeply offends my inner weight weenie... but... <Writes on the chalk board...> I will not buy a tig welder and build one. I will not....

Grin!

Zach

Tom Young · Post by **Tom Young** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:40 am

earlylight wrote:I talked to my friend who does the stainless work......For a modest price of between $9.5 and $11.5 K you too can have a stainless galley similar to that in the photo providing you are willing to do all the measuring and provide him a full set of drawings. Ohhhh yeah, you must also do the installation as well as any cabinet work you want in the galley. He will merely provide the stainless steel work. He will not go aboard a boat, thus the requirement that you measure and install.

Seems a wee bit too rich for my blood. :-(

Thanks! I'm not surprised, there's alot of tedious hand work finishing the many welds in the raised fiddlles and backs.

I'd love it onboard but I'll be replacing my counters soon with plastic laminate. It's hard to beat for durablilty (mine are nearly 50 seasons now), price and it's fairly easy material to work with.

My boat had a SS trim piece with a small fiddle built in around the inboard side of the counters which cover the galley/icebox/nav station area. I'll keep that. The fiddle of a counter takes alot of abuse with dings and constant water. This piece of SS looks good for another 50 seasons.

Here's an example of the trim on another boat that was finished at the same yard. It's a simple bend; straight up 1/2" above the counter surface, about 150degree rounded bend that ends on the surface. I

It's high enough to do a fair job as a fiddle (fore and aft movement isn't too great) but low enough to easily brush/wipe the surface clean. Simple stuff but nice design work.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/9/8/4 ... 7029810000

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:42 pm

That does look really nice, Tom. I'm not quite clear on what happens on the inside of the fiddle though. Does the stainless come back down the inside face and go under the laminate? Land on top? (I think that's what you said but then what would keep stuff from catching on, or going under, the edge?)

I'm not going to go look for that boat on Yachtworld ;)

Rachel

Tom Young · Post by **Tom Young** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:26 pm

So when you mount it by fastening the screws into the edge of the plywood, you hold it down to so the edge tightens onto the laminate. It forms a good fit. The pieces on my boat are welded and also rim the companiionway ladder which is let into the coutnertop.

How were you able to post that photo? I haven't figured that out?

The boat is an Alden Caravelle that's kept in nearby Stonington. It's the best Caravelle I've ever seen.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:42 pm

Tom,

Thanks for the additional info. on the stainless fiddles.

I posted the photo by removing everything to the right of ".jpg" In other words, the url ended in .jpg

(I tried it first just with the "properties" that popped up from the photo, but then, like yours, it just showed up as characters.)

Guess I'll have to go take a look at the Caravelle, just to see what it's like :) I wish they made a boat like your Challenger that was "my" size. Say a 30- or 32-footer.

Rachel

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:31 pm

Is this one your size, Rachel?
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1961/Wa ... ted-States

Not plastic - but very much a classic - and compared with the other Walsted-built boats, a serious bargain!

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:50 pm

Well that's not too shabby! A wee bit (ahem) out of my range, but very, very nice.

Thanks for the link,

R.

Trecksail · Post by **Trecksail** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:24 am

Thanks for the examples all.

Unfortunately the yachtworld listing on that last Walsted just irks the hell out of me and I can't even remember what my post was about.

Did anyone go through all the photos? It's obviously a beautiful boat. But I'd shoot that broker if that was my boat that I was paying him to sell. Why in the hell would the guy do that to the photos? 2 - 4 important shots crammed into one? Does yachtworld charge by the photo? I was so frustrated trying to squint at the pics I had to x out of the listing.

Sorry for the rant

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:58 am

Actually, for C, P & P it's not too bad - they often don't seem to have interior photos at all! But I agree on the collages; I've seen them on some of their other listings and it is a shame.

R.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:28 am

Trecksail wrote: ...shoot that broker...

Generally words to live by anyway.

mitiempo · Post by **mitiempo** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:24 am

This listing is of a boat I used to own. When I sold her (to her designer) he rebuilt most of the boat, changing the layout back to original, redoing keels and deck gear, etc. He kept the galley I refinished and the salon table(slicing it to adjust it to angle of heel). The galley is ash, about 1/4", epoxied to plywood, clearcoated with west and then about 3 coats of varnish(Epifanes). The plugs are teak over the screw holes, but could have been done to match as easily. Fiddles are teak. I was living aboard at the time and went to sleep smelling varnish. It wears well as she has been to New Zealand and back since this was done.
http://velayachtsales.com/core/listing/ ... yachtsintl

mitiempo · Post by **mitiempo** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:31 am

The table was done the same way, but with bookmatch teak about 1/4" thick, oak edging. The black was going to be a darker inlay, then I got the idea of using epoxy which mixes well with black coloring from a paint store. I currently am redoing the galley on my cs27 and will be using formica over ply, but might inlay tiles I bought in Mexico somewhere as I did above the sink on Marimba.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:23 pm

Wow... Marimba is a beautiful boat!

Chesapeake Bob · Post by **Chesapeake Bob** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:19 pm

I am just wondering out loud... Has anyone ever done a galley counter in Corian (or the competitor's materials) or granite?

Thanks,

Chesapeake Bob
Cape Dory 30
sv Aloha Spirit

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:30 pm

Chesapeake Bob wrote: Has anyone ever done a galley counter in Corian (or the competitor's materials) or granite?

I did one on a Hinckley Pilot. It looks great, but I think it was a mistake. When working on the engine the counter is poorly supported and someone is going to step on it with the cabinet front removed and break it. There are applications where it works. There are some products out there that are thin layers of stone or composite laminated to a honeycomb to create a light weight version. This makes more sense to me.

mitiempo · Post by **mitiempo** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:10 pm

James Baldwin redid the counter tops on a Nicholson 31 with corian (as well as much else) and this link takes you to it. Scroll down.
http://atomvoyages.com/projects/Nicholson.htm
Brian

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:43 am

Cheap(ish)? I've done particleboard cabinets and countertops. I coated out the countertop in West System (edges top and bottom, particularly carefully around the sink, for a basement darkroom and laundry in our old townhouse. Did fine with kids, water, and darkroom chemicals. I understand that it's still fine 20 years later.

I've used particleboard for walls and cabinets which are now about 15 years old. The wall is behind the 'fridge and microwave cabinet and is the wall of the lavatory: saves space; 3/4" thick instead of studs and plaster. Painted. There's the merest little swelling of the chips adjacent to the sink.

I've done plenty (enough!) of plastic laminate (Formica, Arborite) with contact cement on decent plywood. Wood edged, etc. No problems with telegraphing or cracking. You would do well to read the mfr's instructions about backer sheet, radiused corners, etc., to control warping and cracking. Vertical grade p-lam will telegraph defects, it's quite a bit thinner. Post-forming (bendable) p-lam will certainly telegraph. Ordinary p-lam is pretty good, stable stuff; I've even made switch covers out of it. The stuff glues perfectly well with contact cement, and with adequate clamping, wood glue or epoxy. I've pulled p-lam off of old cabinets and replaced it. Also pulled it off other cabinets, cleaned the contact cement off, and laminated veneer in place with epoxy (very nice, Mahogany surface with Teak fiddles).

Current problem, which is why I did this post, is how to repair the countertop on Quetzal. The sink faucet and its handles are too low and short to avoid spilling water on the top and it has, in only 40 years, rotted out the plywood under the plastic laminate (maybe 2" x 2" at one corner). Nothing shows from underneath (in the engine compartment), but the laminate can be deflected downwards and the fiddle has obviously moved relative to adjacent varnished wood. All the laminate on the countertops match and is not available. My idea is to repair the void with epoxy and leave the laminate in place, but ,of course, I don't wish to dissassemble anything...hmmm.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:48 am

I think Corian or similar solid materials would be fine for marine use, even at the companionway. I'd handle the span issue, and the weight, by using the 1/4" thick stuff laminated onto plywood (or fiberglass-aluminum honeycomb panels). I would never use even the 3/4" Corian unsupported, even in a house, though I think it's a normal application.

Mark F · Post by **Mark F** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:14 pm

I used some 1/2" Corian left over from a household project for the head vanity on my Ericson 27. It makes a great surface and the ability to renew it with a Scotch pad makes it a nearly permanent install.

Earlier in this thread there was some talk about "telegraphing" of rough substrate through Formica and the like. It does happen, I've seen the "football" patches in plywood show through. You need a good smooth surface to glue plastic laminate to.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:02 am

I did the vanity top in the head with Corian. When I bought the scrap from someone on Ebay, I was able to get them to install the fiddle in the front. To my mind, this is the great thing about solid surface-- you don't need to cover up the edges with teak.

If I were to do the galley, which is considerably larger, I would try and get 1/4" corian mounted on a stiffer, lighter substrate. The stuff is HEAVY!

mitiempo · Post by **mitiempo** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:19 pm

I realize this post is getting a bit stale, but I have something to add. When glueing laminate to the counters, or anything else thin for that matter, I always use epoxy. I have owned a boat (Marimba2 in the link I posted above) where the original laminate had lifted from counters and particularly a bulkhead even though there was no water intrusion. If you use epoxy water can't ever get under it and cause it to lift. I believe it will also stop any future print through. Of course you have to epoxy the edges as well if using ply for counters, but this is a good idea anyway. The downside is that you have to weigh it down and clamp well till set. I usually place ply pieces on top and other suitable weights on top of that - usually toolboxes and a couple of old winches. The edges get clamped closely all around overnight.( I once built a stitch and glue kayak so have a large number of clamps.
Brian

Plastic Classic Forum

Galley countertops?

Galley countertops?

Here's an old idea that seems hard to beat.

It lands on top as you guessed Rachel.

Walsted

galley counters

re salon table:

What about Corian or even Granite?

Re: What about Corian or even Granite?

Re: Galley countertops?

Re: Galley countertops?

Re: Galley countertops?

Re: Galley countertops?

Re: Galley countertops?

Re: Galley countertops?