New Owner of Triton #194

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TritonSailor
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New Owner of Triton #194

Post by TritonSailor »

Good Day Everyone,

Since I found out what a Pearson Triton was through the adventures of James Baldwin, and how beautiful they are when brought to life by artists like Tim Lackey, I had to have one. I still can't believe I have one!!! I have no idea what to do first. Currently it's on the hard in Haddam, CT. My plan is to liveaboard and when the refit is complete, go cruising!!! I emailed Jim Baldwin and he said that it's really not necessary to immediately gut it and start from scratch. He said try just getting it in the water and sail around and find out what needs doing. My problem with that is it's already out of the water and it's January. Should I start by changing out seacocks and throughulls, sanding interior and exterior. See if the chainplates need to be beefed up for offshore sailing? I was under the impression that they needed to be beefed up because they didn't come from the factory strong enough for offshore use. I know I'm in the wrong area for this question, but since I'm rambling. If I get 1x19 SS 316 standing rigging, what diameter do I need to get to offset the lower tensile strength of 316 as opposed to 302/304? How many feet total of standing rigging for ordering purposes is usually required on the Triton? Sorry for the rambling. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Tim »

You'll get the most satisfactory results (i.e. realistic and do-able within a reasonable amount of time, versus a bloated and endless project that swarms out of control both timewise and financially) if you concentrate now only on on what truly needs to be done. It's unlikely you're heading over the horizon immediately, so I'd suggest planning on this coming season to be your learning year, when you do as James Baldwin suggested and get to know your boat. (This assumes that the boat is in sail-able condition now, not already a derelict that requires rebuilding before anything.)

If you don't already know for sure what you want and need to do, then take is slowly, and be very wary of diving in to too many projects head first before you know, first of all, whether the project is necessary, and, secondly, before you know what is involved (really involved) in that particular project or task. Too many people get in over their heads and only then find out that they can't swim. Don't let this happen to you.

Virtually everyone is using 316 wire rope rigging now. The decrease in strength versus the same size of 304 is negligible given the ultimate strength of the product compared to the potential loading you'll ever put on it.

Don't blindly upsize everything: it's almost never necessary. The supposed safety factor by having larger-than-normal rigging has its down side--weight, windage, cost, incompatibility with the current fittings on the mast or boat, and so forth. One does what one has to in order to be comfortable with their own boat, but too many jump on the "bigger is better" bandwagon without understanding that big enough is big enough, and bigger isn't always better. There are many more potential areas of real concern on a Triton than the size of the rigging.

The original chainplates are pretty minimal, but they work. Those online stories of all these mast failures are greatly exaggerated, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't carefully inspect your own setup and determine what, if anything, is necessary for your intended use. But know what's needed before you make a plan to change anything.

Do your through hulls and seacocks need changing? If they work and are sound, there's no need for new. If you want to put some in where they don't currently exist, that's a good plan, but don't simply replace everything without first knowing what's what. If the old fittings don't work and can't be serviced, then by all means replace. Through hull valves are important. I'd pay more immediate attention to the condition of the hoses in the boat, though, with or without seacocks.

I'm assuming from your post that this will be a learning experience as you go, and also that you don't have unlimited financial resources. Certainly it can be great fun to strip a boat down to nothing and start from scratch, but don't do this unless you can... in terms of time, skill, inclination, and finances--not to mention the understanding of what it truly means for your life if you do go this route.

For most, it's best to keep things as simple as possible, and one thing at a time. Good luck.
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Post by triton #227 »

Congradulatios, Tritons are sweet boats. Since I bought mine the most important thing I've leaned is not what I need but what I don't need. Keep it simple and make sure to check those hoses, especially the one for the sink drain it's very hard to get to and often go's unchecked. I've spent most of my time on the interior and a good bottom job, topside paint can be a big job and it's easy to get in over your head.


http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89 ... DC0990.jpg

http://s400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89 ... DC0980.jpg


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Post by TritonSailor »

Thanks for your responses. My issue is that the boat is on the hard, it hasn't been in the water in 3 years, I just don't want to put the boat in the water when the bilges could've been painted and the bottom done at least. Thanks you for your time.
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Post by Hirilondë »

You wouldn't necessarily know it from hanging out here, but there are a lot of people who picked up old boats, dove into a rehab head first, got frustrated and now have an interesting yard ornament. Tim, James and others are just warning you against biting off more than you can chew at the get go. Especially since this may not be necessary to start sailing and learning about what is really needed.

If you have the confidence and motivation to strip your bilge or bottom, then go for it. On an old boat it is very unlikely that it would be a wasteful thing to do either or both. The question becomes: do you have the time to do these and what ever else must be done to get in by your scheduled launch date? Keep in mind that most boat projects take about twice as long as anticipated.

My boat has an endless list. It contains stuff that must be done before the next season, and stuff that I would like to have done. Stuff is continuously added, and the order is constantly re prioritized. Some things make it to the top quickly, others never seem to get there. Its a boat, she won't be done until she sinks.

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Here are Some Pictures!!!

Post by TritonSailor »

She is in a morbid state... But no delamination. Couldn't find any wet core issues. A4 has been mothballed properly. A fine selection of sails including the main with the Trident and hull #194. All the woodwork was taken off and stored in the cabin. Also has a furler, though I don't know what kind it is. So here go the pictures... I'm not keeping the name, already have a new one lined up. I will have more pictures when I get a camera. Oops, need to add that to the lengthy need to buy list :)

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Post by jollyboat »

Triton Sailor,
Congrats -
I have not read the follow up posts to your questions but in any case I could drive up and take a look at things with you if you would like - just to have another set of "Triton Eyes" looks things over. I could inspect your sails if you would like as well. Let me know.
Good Sailing,
Brian
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Post by triton #227 »

That boat dosn't look that bad at all. If I where you I'd clean it up reasembale it, do a bottom job and put it in the water. After a summer of sailing you will have a much better idea of what needs to be done.
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Post by Rachel »

Edited to add: Oh, I somehow missed all the photos and thought Dave's post was the last one. She looks great! Sure, there's clean up to be done, and you'll definitely find more, but really looks like a good start. How nice that she's covered. If a cover's been on over the three years, it's probably helped immeasurably.

Can't wait to see your progress! What's her new name going to be? (Or maybe it's secret for now.)

***********************************
Hirilondë wrote: Keep in mind that most boat projects take about twice as long as anticipated.
Twice? Boy, you're efficient! ;)

Triton Sailor, I hope you're not discouraged by the response here, but at the same time, having had a few project boats, I know they speak wise words.

It is hard when you get a new boat and it's been out of the water for years. There seem to be so many things that are best to do now, before you launch. Bottom work, as you say, and a number of other things. Easier to "just go sailing" on a boat that's already in the water and active when you buy it.

Nonetheless, I think you're getting good advice, overall, and it's not to blow you off, or discourage you, but to try to help you on your best path. Of course we don't know you or your motivation/time/money, as Dave mentioned, but most people dwindle a bit when they haven't been able to sail in a while and the boat just sits and gobbles up time and money.

I guess I would try to make a list of what absolutely cannot be done without the boat on the hard, and go from there. It is nice not to worry about what's going on beneath the water line as you snooze at anchor, or in the rigging as you pour on a bit more coal when out sailing; but just be aware of what can happen and how these little projects can morph into big, soul-sucking ones.

I'm the pot calling the kettle black here, but just because it's such a good example, we have one member who bought a "sailaway" Triton, took out the interior (which was not too bad), built a new, "four hour" temporary plywood interior, and then went out and had a ball on a few-months cruise over the summer in Maine.

Then he proceeded to haul the boat, strip out that interior, and make a four-year-on-the-hard, $$ gobbling project out of it :D Now, he'd sailed the boat, and had owned previous boats, and he knew that's what he wanted.

I think what we're all getting at is that it's nice to have had some time on the water with your boat so that you can decide from experience with it whether you want to make it one of those big projects, want to keep it more-or-less as-is, or want something in the middle -- and know how to recognize each of those in advance.

I hope you'll stick around and keep us posted. Congrats on your new Triton!

Rachel
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Post by TritonSailor »

Thank You for the replies everyone. I know it doesn't say, but my name is Jeff. Brian, thank you, I might take you up on your offer in the next couple months. Triton #227, I wish it was that easy for me, but I have about $10,000 to spend initially and I don't want to watch it disappear as I'm having fun on the water! Rachel, thank you for your advise and yes I picked a new name for her. I didn't know what the etiquette was, but here it goes... S/V Pleone...pronounced like ple-o-nee. It's a star in the constellation Taurus and it's either Greek or Latin for Sailing Queen. Cool beans right!!! Well thanks everyone. There is no doubt in my mind that I will be overwhelming you guys with questions.

Thanks Again

Jeff
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Post by Rachel »

That is a nice name, Jeff.

In a coincidence (because I sure haven't seen very many boats with that name), the first Triton I ever looked at in-person was #562, and was named "Pleone." I immediately thought "Well, if I buy this boat, I won't have to change the name." :D

Bring on the questions!

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Post by TritonSailor »

Rachel, you've seen this name before? Here I was arrogant enough to think that this was my brilliant idea and no one thought of this before :) In all seriousness I thought the name was relatively unique, somebody must have beat me to the punch. I have done some searching and reading on this forum about initial tools. I glad I got the orbital/DA sander debacle out of the way. Unfortunately I won't have an endless supply to money, so when I go to buy the tools I need..ie...cordless drills, sanders, and such. I want to know that they won't burn out on the first day. I have always gone with Porter Cable, Dewalt, and Makita. Saying that, which manufacturer would you go to for each kind of tool? For example, would you get PC Sanders and DeWalt drills and so on. Thanks

Jeff
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Post by Jason K »

I've been very happy with the Porter Cable DA sanders, though the switches are finicky. My cordless tools are the 18V Dewalt set, which I really, really like. I've had an issue with the jigsaw (which isn't worth the money, just go corded), but other than that, they've been great.
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Post by Chris Campbell »

I've never heard anyone mention Ridgid tools here, but I've had good luck with them - and they come with a lifetime warranty, including the batteries!
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Post by TritonSailor »

I really don't have a place to put all the "stuff" I know 'm going to find inside the boat. Do most marina's let you create a nice neat pile next to your boat while the work is being done, or do I have to spend more boat money on a storage locker?
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Post by bcooke »

Short answer, No. Boatyards can get pretty touchy about storing stuff outside the boat. Every yard is different though so you have to check it out. Try buttering up the yard help with donuts and keeping the piles neat.

I have filled most of a basement and garage (the car stays outside in the snow) and while I would like to move I can't find a place with enough storage space for my boat parts that is in my price range.

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Post by TritonSailor »

I hope this isn't a bad omen for me. I just got back from the boat. I wanted to take a few pictures for Britton's data for the boat. But the camera broke. So I thought to myself, hey we haven't seen the mast yet because last time i was down here there wasn't enough crew to move things to get to it. So this time I thought I would gently assert my 6'2" 260lb frame and ask them gently to show me the mast I bought. I was told with snub indifference that it is shrinkwrapped with a bunch of other masts and would be impossible to get to. I was reminded of my 20 years of military service and deescalation procedures and just smiled making sure they carried to my eye's. But Sir I said I have bought the boat, but have yet to see the mast. Still smiling I continued could you empathize with that at all. He looked at me humerously and offered me this awsome deal. From now until June 1st 2009 you pay $267.00. After June 1st Summer Season for you is $12.00/ft. I left. Same Smile. Oh and uncovered an autohelm 1000. I need to look the up and find out if that a gold find or a platinum one. Sorry for rambling...again


Jeff
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Post by TritonSailor »

I went out to the boat today and took lots of pics, I won't show them all here. There are a couple that have questions associated with them so I'll post those.

These are pics of my mast beam...

Notice hull #194
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See crack where the mast step bolts on?
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Do I have anything to worry about with those cracks by the mast step bolts? Every other inch of that beam seems sound. In my opinion, which I don't trust, is that those cracks run perpendicular to the direction of the supposed stress that the mast would be putting on the beam. Which hopefully means that the beam isn't structurally compromised. Am I close??? Thanks everyone.

Jeff
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Post by Tim »

Is that a crack, or is it the seam between the two sections of the mast beam? Usually there's a full-width one on the after side of the bulkhead, and a separate shorter section on the forward side.

What you show in the photos appears to be this seam.
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Post by triton #227 »

Thats a seam. Mine is the same way it's two peaces of wood.
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Post by Tim »

This is what they look like out of the boat.

Image
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Post by TritonSailor »

Thank you for the response guys! Tim, other than what I thought was a very straight crack :), my mast beam is okay. Do you think that it would be able to still deal with the rigors of offshore sailing taking into account it's age?

Thanks

Jeff
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Post by jollyboat »

Jeff the beam looks very healthy. I would not worry about offshore sailing until you can do a lot of inshore sailing first. Your boat looks great!
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Post by TritonSailor »

I don't know if you guy's can make this out. But on the right side of the head, there is a seacock, if you could call it that. It's a through flow valve with a ball that is set in between two hoses. From what I can tell there is a hose that is terminating somehow into the hull. I'm going to have a head in this boat as well so a seacock replacement would be in order I think...But would I put it in the same place, or is there somewhere more suitable?

Thanks

Jeff

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Post by Tim »

Locate the seacock wherever you want, but the current location is convenient for operation on a regular basis. I'd leave it basically there, within moderate tolerances to account for your new head and other considerations.
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Post by TritonSailor »

Thanks Tim. A big part of me wanted to find good working seacocks where I needed them because they are so damn expensive. I've seen them from $119.00 to $135.00. Unreal!!!

Jeff
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Post by Rachel »

I've posted on this before, I think (perhaps search Conbraco), but when I researched seacocks a year or so ago, I felt that the Apollo Conbracos were a good "budget" choice. They have (or had when I researched) all-bronze wetted components and are made in the U.S.

They're not as nice looking as some others, and they do have a steel handle that's a bit "one dimensional." It's covered in yellow "dip-it" type rubber. But the handle can be replaced easily and cheaply, and won't just fail instantly. I think it might be a good idea to remove the rubber (?).

A friend has these and when he went to replace the handles with new ones from Conbraco (years after installing them), the ones they sent were much beefier than the originals.

I'm not saying these are my favorite seacocks in the world if money is no object, but I think they are a good value.

At the time of my research I had to recommend against the lower end Grocos. They went from having foreign made stainless-steel internal components (that they recalled), to....brass. Ugh. Their top-of-the-line seacocks are quite nice though.

Rachel

PS I didn't mention plastic seacocks because I did not research them for myself.
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Post by TritonSailor »

Thanks Rachel, I know exactly what's going to happen. I will not want to go cheap so I'll decide on good quality for some expense, will not want to wait for it in to come UPS and go buy it for some ridiculous amount out of pure convenience lol. No, now that I said it, I probably won't make that mistake.

Thanks Again

Jeff
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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by TritonSailor »

I wanted to post up some update pictures. The cover is off, cleaning has begun inside and out. Currently sanding bottom. I will have more pictures soon.

Clean but not scrubbed
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Still don't know what I want to do with that hole!
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My Sails waiting for Brian of Jollyboat's inspection.
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I made a couple of purchases. A Rule 1000 GPH bilge pump and 4 Gallons of Interprotect 2000E. West Marine price matched Defender, so I got the Interprotect for $74.99 each.
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I'm making some headway on the bottom!
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That's it for now!!!

Jeff
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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by Duncan »

Nice work on the bottom!

A few things I noticed in this photo:

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1. I have the same "recess" on my Cape Dory 27. I just now realized that all the Tritons have one. It's a great place for shelves, and if you cover the top of it, you can make a locker behind it (see below).

2. You may have had a pipe berth in your boat at some point. The dark piece of wood extending horizontally at the level of the top of the settee cushion looks like it has an indentation where the end of the outboard pipe would have nested. Here's a shot of my pipe berth (stowed) on the starboard side.

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3. Your "woodgrain finish" would look very nice painted semi-gloss white, a la "Hereshoff Interior".
Image
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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by TritonSailor »

I have the old bottom paint pretty much taken care of:
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I have now started fairing areas that have crazing and pits. This is going to take a lot of epoxy and time! I'm using West System epoxy and 407 High Density. It sands very easily.

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I've also run into a little issue while trying to remove the rudder. The machine screw that binds the tiller head, sheared almost exactly in the middle. So if you look down the crease where the tiller head is held together, you can see the break. I'm not sure what to do from here. I can't pry the tiller head apart and there isn't enough thread on the other side to try and grab and thread through. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff
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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by Chris Campbell »

You may be able to drill a small hole in the centre of the remaining bolt and insert a bolt remover. There are a couple of types - one of them is reverse threaded and tightens itself as you try to back out the bolt, the other is square and you pound it in. Either one will try to expand the bolt as it grips, which will make the bolt harder to remove, but they'll both give you a chance. The other choice is to drill the whole bolt out - this is possible, but more painful since it's more stainless to get through (very hard to drill). If you drill it out carefully, though, you may not even damage the threads, since you can avoid them and pull what remains of the bolt into the hole you've created. If you do damage the threads you'll need to drill and tap, but that's not the end of the world, either.

Are you able to get it off and take it to a machine shop where they have a drill press and great bits? That would of course be the easiest...

Good luck with it!
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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by Zach »

Hi Jeff,

Is the "big hole" the square one at the back of the cockpit?

If it is, I have the teak board that drops in place. I am getting ready to glass in that hole, and move to a lazarette hatch up to the aft deck... When I get started on that, its yours for shipping if you need it.

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Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by TritonSailor »

Thanks Chris. Zach, I don't know yet if I'm going to plug it up and put an access on top or leave it. If I do decide to leave it, which will be decided soon, I will thankfully take you up on your offer.

Thanks

Jeff
Jeff
1960 Pearson Triton #194
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2845
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Re: New Owner of Triton #194

Post by Figment »

TritonSailor wrote:I can't pry the tiller head apart...
Why not? It's only bronze.
If the clamp screw is broken, you should be able to spread the jaws just a tiny bit (which is all it takes) with a screwdriver or whatever prying or wedging device you have handy. A few squrts of PB the day before may be helpful as well, but it really shouldn't put up too much of a fight.
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