Bolero Concept

[Bluenose]

Well Tim is speedily working his way through Allen's Triton so I have been obsessing over many things. Of course one those has to be color schemes. I am currently toying with two.



I am sort of torn between the classic white and the bolder deep red. Here are larger versions of these sketch showing the deck layout and keels.

First the Classic White



And now the Bold Red



Much of my color schemes are guided by my choice of bottom paint. I am planning to use ePaint's ep-zo. This is a non copper based that I have had success with in the past. (The quoated information is from http://www.epaint.com)

How do epaints prevent bio-fouling?

epaints contain no tin or copper. Instead of following the archaic method of leaching toxicants that persist in the environment, epaints employ novel mechanisms to control the attachment of fouling organisms. epaint antifouling paints protect your vessel from bio-fouling using a unique combination of naturally occurring photoactive materials and organic biocides that do not persist in the aquatic environment. All epaints contain photoactive pigments that use sunlight to photo-chemically catalyze oxygen (O2) and water (H2O) to produce hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) around the surface of your boat hull, creating a protective barrier that is inhospitable to the settling larvae of fouling organisms. epaints also contain the powerful organic booster biocides of Zinc Omadine and SeaNine 211 that aggressively prevent fouling organisms from attaching to your boat. Unlike copper that persists in the environment, hydrogen peroxide, Zinc Omadine and SeaNine 211 quickly break down in the aquatic environment into harmless materials.

Since their lighter colors work better than their darker ones I am leaning towards white.

Why do lighter color epaints provide slightly better protection than darker color paints?

Lighter color epaints, like white and gray, perform slightly better than darker color paints because they contain little tinting/coloring agents. The addition of high levels of tinting/coloring agents decreases the amount of active ingredients that prevent fouling and can also block the photoreceptors in the paint inhibiting the production of hydrogen peroxide around the hulls surface. The difference in performance based on color is generally only seen in warm, high-sun, high-fouling bodies of waters.

Anyway I thought I would pass along an update on where we are and were we might be headed.

[MikeD]

Bill,

Thanks for the info on the bottom paint. I'll have to check into it for next season.

From the end of your quote above: "The difference in performance based on color is generally only seen in warm, high-sun, high-fouling bodies of waters." It seems as though you may have a few more color options...

A couple of random thoughts:

Both your mock -ups look great, though the "red" looks a little more maroon, which isn't bad at all. There's a maroon CD 27 in our mooring field that looks really sharp. Nice color. I'm considering it myself down the road.

I'd think a white bottom would look "dirtier" more quickly than a darker color...

White topsides is always a classy look. I like how it is accented with brightwork, boot stripes, and canvas. The white color Tim used on Day Sailor was simply stunning in person. It had this sort of three dimensional depth to it that really doesn't come out at all in the pictures. (snow white?) Couldn't go wrong with that color choice. Really brings out the brightwork too.

It's a treat to watch as Tim works his magic on your own boat. You must be getting VERY excited!

[Bluenose]

Mike,

Thanks for the comments and input. I used epaints ep-2000 for two seasons and this season switched to ep-zo because is easy to apply over existing bottom paints. This is the first year that I chose a color (red) so I will get another data point.

As far as colors goes I am still working on it. It didn't help that I got the Alexseal Color Selection guide today in the mail from Tim. I thought I had narrowed it down to two (make that three) colors. But that dark green looks nice.



I quite enjoyed reading the log of Tim's work on Sea Glass. Reading and rereading Tim's old logs really helped me get comfortable with this crazy Shields idea. I tentatively put it out and he saw my craziness and he raised. So here we are and I don't feel that there is a better choice than Tim for this job.

Oh, and yes very excited.

[Allen]

I am looking forward to the Bolero project. She is a beauty. The picture was taken in Tim's shop 9/10/07.

[Bluenose]

Allen,

Thanks for the new picture and comments on Bolero. I must say that I have been following Tim's log on Kaholee and she is looking first rate. She will definitely be a hard act to follow.

In another post I commented about being in the right place at the right time but never followed it up. I have had idea of maybe trying to launch Bolero in Maine and spend a week or two daysailing her. I have never been to Maine and the cruising pictures I see look divine. It is all pretty far out in the future but I seem to be at a point in my life where the crazy ideas seem reasonable.

[Allen]

Bill,

It is great sailing in Maine, the only drawback is the speed bumps (locally know as lobster pot buoys) but Tim tells me you get use to it. I did ok running before the wind, but had a tough time maintaining sail trim when close hauled as I was spending too much time trying to spot the speed bumps. :) Once you get in deep water though it's clear sailing.

I'll bet Bolero a lot of fun to sail, she looks like she's a real rocket ship. I can't wait to see her on the water, racing along.

[Bluenose]

Here is the northwest we have some, but not many, crab pot buoys. But they are pretty easy to dodge. The real threat up here is deadheads. Big storms wash trees from the shore (or they come lose from tugs) and they mostly sink leaving only the tops showing. It would be a rude surprise to hit one. You sort of develop a feel for seeing them without looking.



This year we had a large tree get stuck in the bottom near our channel entrance. It was there for weeks and we even starting using it as a Nav aid. But then one day we went out and it was gone. We scanned the horizon like a bunch of nervous nellies. Never did find it, thankfully.

[keelbolts]

Holy Cow! Is that a beautiful boat, or what?!

As for the colors, I can see where you'd have a problem making up your mind. You can't go wrong w/ white, but a deep red is also nice. Woodenboat magazine had an article on a Herreshoff Rozinante that was done in that deep red & she had a very rich look about her.

[Figment]

I know of a claret-red Shields that wears it pretty well, but I think that in general they look better with a lighter color on the topsides. In particular I'm thinking of a light grey one and a soft green one that are just stunning.

[Bluenose]

I thought I would update a few items in this thread. The first concerns epaint bottom paint. I mentioned that in the past I have always used their gray ep-2000 bottom paint. They state that their lighter colors are slightly better than their darker ones. This year I changed to ep-zo red bottom paint (I know, I change two variables). I launched later but sailed a bit less. I hauled in early November and this was the first year that I have had to pressure wash the hull to remove bottom growth. Nothing severe but still there. So at this stage I think I am leaning towards staying with a light color and probably white. I am still very satisfied with epaint products.

It also appears that I am settled into my original color bias of dark blue. The deck are looking to be beige with white accents. It might be hard to see in my current mockup but Tim tweaked the coaming / cabin outline and it became more curvaceous. I am quite liking the direction that we are headed.

[Zach]

I really like that color scheme!

Have you thought about raking the cabin top aft just a hair at the mast? I'm a huge fan of leaning cabins back for the effect of speed, less visual bulk, and the mast doesn't have to be plumb to look right... best of all the overhangs get even loooonger looking!

Question: Has the gold shear line dropped in the center, or will it be marked off the hull/deck joint the same distance. Could play with the visual effects by dipping it in the center and pinching it at the ends...

[Bluenose]

Hey Zach

Have you thought about raking the cabin top aft just a hair at the mast? I'm a huge fan of leaning cabins back for the effect of speed, less visual bulk, and the mast doesn't have to be plumb to look right... best of all the overhangs get even loooonger looking!

Thanks for the suggestions. I have to admit you gave me a chuckle by suggesting a way for Bolero to look faster and accentuate her over hangs. But if over abundance is good extreeme must be better. I will certainly give your cabin ideas some thinking time.

Question: Has the gold shear line dropped in the center, or will it be marked off the hull/deck joint the same distance. Could play with the visual effects by dipping it in the center and pinching it at the ends...

I believe in the mockup it is an equal distance from the deck line. The mockup locations for the boot stripe and cove line are, however, my own little fantasy world. Since Tim is painting I don't believe I get, nor want, a say in their exact location.

[LazyGuy]

Shields are beautiful no matter what the color they are painted. As Figment pointed out, we have a fleet of Shields here and they are in almost every color imaginable. The red one he mentioned is also one of my favorites while the banana yellow one is my least favorite. Under certain lights the red looks like the topsides are bright.

The concern for dark colors is the sun heating the wood. The darker colors get a lot hotter than the light colors and it can be tough on the wood.

Along with the shields we have a bunch of IODs. One of the prettiest is Greyhound that is a light gray with white accents. The gray is just dark enough to provide contrast with the white.

[Bluenose]

Dennis,

I just love you quote

Life is too short to own an ugly boat.

I sometimes wish the dark color concern applied to Pacific Northwest sailing but our truly hot weather lasts about a week or maybe 10 days in the summer. The rest of the summer is pure heaven. And the winters, well they keep the population down :).

[dasein668]

I saw Bolero in person today and I have to say... wow... she's a beauty. The pictures just don't do justice to that hull. Congratulations!

[Bluenose]

Thanks Nathan,

I have to confess to needing a bit of reassurance during this stage of the project. I decided to forego a trip to Maine so I will only see pictures until she is finished. The next step is cabin mockup. I have been revisiting the Daysailor site for inspiration. It helps to see how beautiful she emerged when finished.

[Zach]

Anything worth doing, is worth doing in excess. With the exception of gold chain, and baggy wrinkle. (Grin)

[Ric in Richmond]

When I was growing up they sailed shields at the naval academy..ao almost everyday I went out I got to see dark blue shields (with grey decks)....I'd pass on the grey deck, but the dark blue is really sweet.

Not in love with the front of the cabin house. Weren't you talking about extending the cabin sides forward slightly???

[JSmith]

Muskrat is Dark Blue with awlgrip cream on the gloss deck and moon dust for the nonskid- looks niiice w/ the varnish work.

[rshowarth]

Shields are beautiful no matter what the color they are painted.

True statement. I do not think you can go wrong. Certainly Dark Blue (Which One?) is a beautiful classic color.

A friend just ordered new Ensign in a Claret Red with the gold cove stripe. It will look equally nice against a dark blue background.

The white boot stripe will let you know when it is time to scrub your hull.

I understand each manufacturer has a different cove stripe insignia. I wonder if Lackey Sailing has considered such a distinctive indicator, now that they are embarking on their second re-model.

[Bluenose]

I understand each manufacturer has a different cove stripe insignia. I wonder if Lackey Sailing has considered such a distinctive indicator, now that they are embarking on their second re-model.

That is an interesting idea that I never thought about. I have pondered about placing Tim's builder plaque next to the Cape Cod one. The other question along this line is sail insignia. I have mixed thoughts about continue to use the Shields class logo. I like it a lot but...

These are concerns that are probably way to small a detail for me to even consider at this stage :). I am desperately trying to find seating headroom for my 5' 11 1/2" tall wife and my 6' 1" frame. The analogy of fitting 10 pounds of potatoes into a 5 pound sack comes to mind.

[Zach]

I wonder if anyone has built a boat like a Japanese house... berths just a touch above sole level. If the gap between each is wide enough to wedge in with your legs bent, and hull tall enough to sit under the deck.. it might work. One sole shaped mattress pad and you've got a floating love shack. Con: No storage though!

With a 6'5 beam, and not much free board I've spent some time pondering how to have a cabin top that isn't two feet tall! In the same breath, the sole will need to be real skinny so the settees allow the noggin to clear the deck height without sitting with elbows on the knees. Not even thinking about side deck width yet!

Have you thought about lowering the cockpit floor, and raising the coamings? I've always thought these boats looked excellent when anchored and docked, but when a human hops on board they look like grape ape. All the more excuse to lay down and sail with a foot on the tiller. (Grin)

[Rachel]

I wonder if anyone has built a boat like a Japanese house... berths just a touch above sole level.

Depends on the boat's shape, of course, but in most "traditional" boats with slack bilges and a wineglass sort of shape, you have to get the berths up reasonably high if you want two of them, and a passageway (of course maybe Bolero won't have that arrangement), because that's where the boat first gets enough beam.

[Bluenose]

No matter how I look at, it looks to be a bit of a magic act. Here is my fantasy drawing which cleverly doesn't include trivial things like structural thicknesses or cabin top beams. Tim's forthcoming mockup will be enlightening. He is trying to give me Thanksgiving weekend to mull it over.

Hey is that some kind of diet ploy?

[Bluenose]

I think one of the cleverest designed small boat interiors is the Edey and Duff Stone Horse. They really managed a livable interior for a 23 foot flush deck boat. I thought it was interesting how they used different heights for their seats and their v-berth.

[Zach]

I wonder if anyone has built a boat like a Japanese house... berths just a touch above sole level.

Depends on the boat's shape, of course, but in most "traditional" boats with slack bilges and a wineglass sort of shape, you have to get the berths up reasonably high if you want two of them, and a passageway (of course maybe Bolero won't have that arrangement), because that's where the boat first gets enough beam.

Excellent point! Scratch that idea...
Unless the berths could be at an angle, and lee clothes used. Comfortable sleeping at insane levels of heel...

[Tim]

I think one of the cleverest designed small boat interiors is the Edey and Duff Stone Horse. They really managed a livable interior for a 23 foot flush deck boat.

The Stone Horse is a great boat. Careful, though...it's not really a flush-decked boat. It's a "raised deck" design, which does provide a very large volume of space in any given length because the cabin trunk extends all the way to the gunwales. But it's very different from a true flush deck in terms of the space available.

Have you thought about lowering the cockpit floor, and raising the coamings?

The cockpit sole is already virtually as low as it can be, and another inch or two (about the practical maximum extra depth here) wouldn't effectively change anything. It's quite a deep cockpit in actuality--deeper than a Triton cockpit, for example. Raised coamings just wouldn't be appropriate given the overall low profile of the boat, with or without the new cabin trunk.

Folks, all the conjecture in the world won't tell the tale like a 3D mockup in the actual space. On-site visualization is truly the only way to make interesting and sweeping changes like this to a boat. The deck mockup is underway now, and only then will the actual space available in the interior be clearly determined. Then we'll see how 2D truly translates to 3D.

Just sit back and watch it come together. All will be made clear. The main objective of this concept is a pleasing and appropriate exterior appearance; whatever ends up in the interior is a bonus.

[Bluenose]

Folks, all the conjecture in the world won't tell the tale like a 3D mockup in the actual space. On-site visualization is truly the only way to make interesting and sweeping changes like this to a boat. The deck mockup is underway now, and only then will the actual space available in the interior be clearly determined. Then we'll see how 2D truly translates to 3D.

Of course Tim is right about this. The best source about what is and what isn't possible with this project is in Tim's shop. But I do feel compelled to add that this project's genesis was based on back of an envelope type sketches and drawings. Hopefully based on sound information. My decision to proceed with this risky project came from my belief that there was a pretty good chance to succeed in my specific goals. If, however, when all is said and done we have to make "significant" compromises to my original vision and goals, then I will have failed (and I hate it when that happens).

Just sit back and watch it come together. All will be made clear. The main objective of this concept is a pleasing and appropriate exterior appearance; whatever ends up in the interior is a bonus.

Patience... Dang, how come all the great things in life require patience :)

[Figment]

Folks, all the conjecture in the world won't tell the tale like a 3D mockup in the actual space. On-site visualization is truly the only way to make interesting and sweeping changes like this to a boat. The deck mockup is underway now, and only then will the actual space available in the interior be clearly determined. Then we'll see how 2D truly translates to 3D.

Just sit back and watch it come together. All will be made clear.

[Tommy Chong Voice] Hey you can't silence the masses, maaaaaaaan![/voice]

[bcooke]

I wonder if anyone has built a boat like a Japanese house... berths just a touch above sole level.

Yes. My Compac 19 was built like that. It got old after awhile but that is because I was cruising. On a daysailor/overnighter it wouldn't be nearly such a big negative in my book.

-Britton

[Tim]

I wonder if anyone has built a boat like a Japanese house...

I tried that once, but the paper bulkheads didn't hold up at all.

[Bluenose]

From concept to reality.





Looking good so far. All we need to do is squeeze in a settee and a beverage and we will be good to go.

[Figment]

yeah, but what happens when your fair model's feet are on the sole instead of down in the bilge? ;)

[Bluenose]

yeah, but what happens when your fair model's feet are on the sole instead of down in the bilge? ;)

Oh come on Figment, have another sip of the Kool-aid and take another look. The model gets fairer and the design gets roomier.

In this picture the fair model's knees are below his waist. Not too good for the back as I understand it. His posture might improve raising his feet a 2 to 4 inches.

The real problem for us is that my wife and I are both about 6 feet tall. She carries hers in her legs and I carry mine in my torso. So this concept ain't in the bag yet. But... it ain't out of the bag yet either. And it might well have gone that way at this stage.

So all in all, we have reason to remain cautiously optimistic and have another sip of the Kool-aid.

Cheers, Bill

[Tim]

Oh come on Figment, have another sip of the Kool-aid and take another look. The model gets fairer...

I'm pretty sure it takes something a lot stronger than Kool-Aid to make that model more fair.

[Figment]

mmmmm "freshman kool-aid". foggily fond memories.

Unsolicited opinion: I dig the look with only one portlight, but perhaps it could move forward just a little bit?

[bcooke]

I am already lusting after that boat...

-Britton

[dasein668]

I am already lusting after that boat...

One at a time, Britton. One at a time.

[Bluenose]

I bump up the saturation on a couple of Tim's pictures to help bring out the grain on that "Whitefield Mahogany". Having a contrasting boot stripe would sure be nice.

[Tim]

I dig the look with only one portlight, but perhaps it could move forward just a little bit?

There are two ports intended (check out the photos of the other side of the boat), but one happened to come unglued as I pulled the boat outside for this photo shoot.

[LazyGuy]

Tim,

Your work in cardboard looks better than some work I have seen done by "professionals" using the other type of mahogany. The proportion is right. I can only see Figments single port if you change the roof line to angle down a few degrees. Although the gallows you added in the last two pictures looks a bit too beefy.

[Rachel]

Although the gallows you added in the last two pictures looks a bit too beefy.

Tee hee.

[Zach]

Do the japanese make rice paper cardboard? (Grin)

Looks great!

[MikeD]

How cool is this?




...although it looks like Tim may have put that forward port about 2 inches too far aft.

[Tim]

...although it looks like Tim may have put that forward port about 2 inches too far aft.

More like 3.

[Noah]

I think you guys should play around with extending the cabin side (but not that Cabin) forward of the mast like they do with Folkboats.

[Peter]

I think you guys should play around with extending the cabin side (but not that Cabin) forward of the mast like they do with the Folkboat.

I agree with you, Noah. I think it would add a nice fore/aft balance to the whole look. You are sooooo close to perfection :-)

Just my 2 cents (Cdn.) worth.

[Bluenose]

I think you guys should play around with extending the cabin side (but not that Cabin) forward of the mast like they do with Folkboats.

Now that's what I call stirring the pot. I can almost hear Tim cringe and cry out "don't reinforce his extended the cabin side fetish, not when we have just about finished the design / mockup stage".

I have played around with this concept, well let's just say, a lot. Perhaps you missed this thread.

http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Most of the boats that use this concept seem to be Scandinavian designs. They also seem to have a cabin top that is higher at the aft end than the forward. So the eye, in my way of thinking, is drawn forward along these cabin side extension. Quite a beautiful look. I also think that often the cabins are longer than Bolero's is. All I know is that I just couldn't get it to look right.

I couldn't find a way to taper the height of the cabin side down as I went forward in a length that was consistent with the short cabin.

Still when I look at my Knarr pictures folder, I am tempted.

[dasein668]

To stir the pot further: I think they extended sides look just plain dumb. So there ya go! ;-P

[Bluenose]

OK, Bolero could end up homeless with this post. But I resurrected an older layout idea and colorized it (me and Disney).



I have always liked boats that have the cabin side going forward, I just haven't quite been able to see Bolero as one of those boats.

Part of it is that with the foredeck handrails, which I quite like, the path forward starts to get a bit crowded. When all is said and done I prefer the existing design. Oh and the new wife does to.

In the end the look I am shooting for with Bolero is just a bit different from those beautiful boats with their forward sweeping cabin sides. The clean, uncluttered long ass foredeck look.