24' Truant Fantail

Commanderpete · Post by **Commanderpete** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:53 pm

Classic looks.

http://www.nwboatschool.org/boats/sailb ... at%20Index

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:44 pm

Tim,

Commanderpete's posting of the 24' Truant Fantail photo led to this posting. For sometime now I've been wondering if you have considered having the rudder stock come out through the afterdeck, with the tiller arching above the rear coaming into the cockpit. A number of one design classes, like the Dragon, Sunbeam (UK) etc. have this arrangement. There are a number of pluses and minuses with this design idea both in aesthetic and practical terms.

Thoughts?

Lyman

David · Post by **David** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:10 pm

I would think with the angle of the Triton's rudder post, that it would come up thru the aft deck almost at the taffrail which might make for a pretty long tiller, unless the whole cockpit were shifted aft.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:04 pm

I like the tiller coming out of the aft deck, if possible. It shifts the helming position aft and helps open up the cockpit for passengers and sail handling. Frankly, a tiller protruding through the entire cockpit length (such as in the standard Triton design) is sort of a pain when sailing with other people in the cockpit.

Moving the tiller to the aft deck would mean that the mainsheet location would move forward of the tiller--not a bad thing, as it could be located in a convenient area for the helmsman to control and tweak.

Whether or not it's possible or worthwhile for the Daysailor design is something that I have not yet determined. David is correct in saying that the angle of the rudder pose may pose a problem. If that is the case, then I will at least look at raising it up about halfway to the deck. I had a Pearson Ensign in which the tiller exited at the aft end of the cockpit through a platform that was level with the seats. It moved the whole thing aft, and made it a bit less cluttered. Perhaps I can do the same sort of thing with the Daysailor.

The height issue is another one. Much depends on how deep the cockpit is relative to the height of the aft deck.

Time will tell, but my inclination is definitely to get the tiller aft and up, as much as possible and practicable.

So much hinges on so much, if you know what I mean. Ideas will surely be considered, then rejected, modified, and adapted to suit the physical being of the boat.

Dave, 397 · Post by **Dave, 397** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:08 pm

My 2 cents'...is that one person can sail a Triton smoothly. If you put the helm too far aft, you start having troubles with that. My old Pearson Commander was a bit tough from that angle, I needed to move the winches aft a bit in order to do it alone well.

I sail on a Dragon periodically, and I always hope that neither Joe or I take a swim as the boat would be nearly impossible to handle smartly alone...just because of the helm position. The Dragon, in fact, is meant to sail with a crew of 3, and sailing with 2 requires that someone be very flexible and also be able to steer by cramming the tiller between his cheeks while leaning forward thru the traveler area to handle control lines while jibing the 'chute. This may sound funny but it gets pretty spooky at times, not just because of where the end of the tiller is!

Dave

David · Post by **David** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:04 am

I agree with the asthetics of moving the tillerhead aft, but I have visions of the tiller, now higher and straighter, sweeping the cockpit, banging coamings and winches, interferring more than helping. Of course I have no idea whether you will be even adding coamings Tim, so my imagination is lacking here.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:22 am

David wrote:I have visions of the tiller, now higher and straighter, sweeping the cockpit, banging coamings and winches

Wherever the tiller ends up, I promise there's no chance of this happening! The tiller/rudderpost configuration is one of the things that I need to deal with fairly early in the process, and is one of those things that I have to visualize in the flesh in order to confirm the correct positioning. Other decisions will be driven by the ultimate placement. Of course, any cockpit coamings in the area would need to be lowered to allow clearance for a deck-sweeping tiller. I believe that the seat-level platform may have more potential in the long run.

Since the whole purpose of this boat is be a classic platform for the pure enjoyment of sailing, all design and layout features will be specifically configured to suit this purpose. Obviously, the juxtaposition of helm, mainsheet, jibsheets, and vital sailing controls is an important design consideration, but even these positions are, to some extent, determined by the overall layout of the deck design.

While it's never to early to consider some of the possible final details, it's too early to cast anything in stone. Things have a way of falling into place.

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

Tim,

My boat has an aft helming position and I love it because I am separated from the crew by the mainsheet traveler and the mainsheet falls readily to hand. However I agree with Dave, 397 that single-handing takes foresight and some kind of tiller restraining device as tacking requires leaving my station to sheet the jib. I also know full well the comedic and scary aspects of rounding the windward mark while tending the spinnaker sheets, mainsheet and tiller as my crew raises the spinnaker and I try not to collide with other boats.

Tim, in the interests of ?simplicity? and ease of handling, are you considering some form of self-tacking jib arrangement for the Daysailor or is a large overlapping jib necessary for good performance?

Lyman

Commanderpete · Post by **Commanderpete** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:18 pm

Here's how the mainsheet is set up on that boat.

This one could use a good home.

http://dockstreetyachts.com/core/listin ... reetyachts&

David · Post by **David** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:21 pm

While I have never sailed a Triton, my Bristol 29's cockpit is arranged so nicely for single handing, which is how I sail her all the time. I can work the genoa sheets and crank the winch if necessary, while the tiller is braced against my leg. As long as you can shift that balance aft, so that the foresail sheets are within reach of the tiller and helmsman, it should work out fine. Sounds like that what you want as well.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:51 am

Tim,

Don't give up on the notion of the deck-height rudder head so quickly!

Yeah, it would be located pretty far back on the aft deck... so what?
Extend the stern of the boat!

hmmmm..... A triton with a fantail stern....

(I'm a sucker for double-enders)

Post by **Tim** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:39 pm

Figment wrote:Don't give up on the notion of the deck-height rudder head so quickly!

Who said I did? It's simply too early to determine one way or another yet. At this point, just about any and all ideas are still under consideration. I very much want to get the tiller head off the sole--I'm not a huge fan of that location, frankly. Whether it ends up at deck level, or about alfway there (at seat level) is pretty much the question now--a question that will be answered once the deck and cockpit are built.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:19 pm

So.... a year later... what's the thought/plan on the tiller head location?

Post by **Tim** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:31 pm

The tiller will be at seat level.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:05 am

Cool.

Does that mean you're planning for the seat to span the aft end of the cockpit (like a backward bridge deck) with the tiller head coming out of the seat?
Or is the plan simply to extend the rudder tube?

Post by **Tim** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:13 am

Yes.

The rudder tube is already extended (see http://www.thedaysailor.com/rebuilding/ ... ertube.htm ) and I will extend the seat (or equivalent platform) across the aft end of the cockpit to accommodate.

Post by **dasein668** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:02 pm

I don't think the ) is supposed to be included in that link...

Post by **Tim** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:58 pm

Fixed.

Plastic Classic Forum

24' Truant Fantail

24' Truant Fantail

Daysailor Concept

Daysailor