Introducing Katie-J

Post photos and descriptions of your ongoing projects here. No project is too big or too small.
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pmnfernando
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

and i got a start on the deck paint removal.....
now this is back breaking work!
thats about an hours worth of work with the roller sander
its a first pass to remove all gelcoating. the final pass will also remove the original non-skid print
deck paint removal.jpeg
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pmnfernando
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Post by pmnfernando »

was raining today i couldnt work on the boat
i was able however to remove the peelply i had applied onto the fairing.
its a neat step, applying peelply i could "iron" the surface with my bare hands, displace and shift some of the fairing underneath to get it to fill spot and conform to a better shape.
in the end you also end up with a much nicer surface to sand
peelply fairing.jpeg
texture 2.jpeg
fairing texture.jpeg
texture 3.jpeg
the temperature dropped suddenly in Macau so it will take a few more days for it to harden up properly.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

its been cold, miserable, and Chinese new year means no one works!

dragged myself to boat today, cleaned up a few things, and coulnt resist cutting things up
i should´ve kept quiet as i knew damn right i was going to weaken the structure. but being the stubborn guy i am, i didnt care and off i cut the thing

got some lines onto it first
getting the window scribbled.jpeg
getting the window scribbled 2.jpeg
before cutting the windshield
before cutting 2.jpeg
after cutting
window cut.jpeg
bow view
window cut. bow.jpeg
stern view
window cut stern.jpeg
portside view
i had already cut the excess on the top also
window cut portside.jpeg
´
the uglies i need to fix
in essence, "wavy" bits of the first lamination i have to fix from the inside
uglies to fix.jpeg
problems with compound curves
you will be able to see the gaps between the arch and the lamination. it is just how it wants to sit when you bend the frame in 2 different axis. i will patch that much like we patch thru hulls: several layers of a pre cut cloth shape. slap them together tightly and be liberal on the thickened epoxy to bed and bridge everything together. it will take a fair amount of thickened epoxy to glue the dodger in its entirety.
only after glueing the dodger and applying those patches will i be shaping that fairing and laminate some more layers of cloth and G10 strips
problems with compound curves.jpeg
problems with compound curves 2.jpeg
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pmnfernando
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

hello to all
finally got the epoxy and other stuff, just in time for the raining season and "summer" to start!
which means i wont get much done, unless i start working at 5/6 am and calling it a day at 12/13 pm. im actually considering that seeing how i just lost an entire dry season waiting for stuff.
all this waiting probably pushed the end of the refit by 18 months, at least.

i continued to prep the main bulkhead to receive the reinforcing metal work, that i also finally receive after 6 months waiting.
for that install to happen i needed to fill some voids and laminate some spots

voids to be filled
main bullkhead before filling voids.jpeg
voids filled by epoxying G10 cut outs, also took to the time to fillet some corners
filling the voids with G10 pieces.jpeg
laminating over the G10 pieces i just epoxied in, just one layer of biax cloth (more on that later)
laminating the centre of main bulkhead.jpeg
reinforcing the main bulkhead port side area with the customary 2 layers of biax
port side mainbulkhead reinforcing.jpeg
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pmnfernando
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

mast step reinforcing metal work

received the stainless steel pieces
and proceed to install them.
they are pretty heavy, on my next trip i want to take a scale to do a weigh in on both, then weigh in the original goal post and compare numbers. my gut tells me i will be heavier with this arrangement, but overall i still think the boat will be lighter than it was.

at least the weight will be centered and at deck level (which is the second best/first worst place to place weight)

its all done in 6 mm place, they actually bent the sheet as apposed to welding it (as i had specified initially) and i think that might just add more integrity to an already beefy piece.
its not perfectcly centered and it ended up with a slight slant towards port side (which is exacerbated on the fwd piece by quite a bit)

aft piece
aft metal piece.jpeg
fwd piece
one can clearly see the slant, im not going to fix it. just going to pack the gaps with G10 sheets, biaxial cloth soaked in resin plus a generous topping of thickened epoxy which will hopefully squeeze out as i thighten the whole thing together, thus removing any gaps and ensuring some nice flat contact surfaces.
fwd metal piece note the slanting towards port side.jpeg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

since i was done laminating the centre part of the bulkhead it was a good time to remove the deck vents on the outside

before removing the vent
before removing the vent.jpeg
after removing the vent
removing the vent after.jpeg
after a quick pass with a a flap disk on a grinder
affter a quick pass with the flap disk.jpeg
and after a good scrub with some acetone i gaff taped the holes, should last the summer i hope
taped up the vents holes.jpeg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

remember the cockpit floor?

i also got around to that, and started the new lids project by cutting some trips of 3mm G10, epoxying and laminating them in

taping the bits together
gaf tape G10 pieces in situ.jpeg
filleting and laminating
starting the new lids of the cockpit floor.jpeg
the idea is to cut a lid ou of 3 mm G10, tape everything around so i can lay some cloth over.
Eventually the fabric will drape over the corners (with some persuasion i might add) and then i laminate it all together, using the packing tape as a demoulder agent.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

water tank works

continued the works by reinforcing corners that werent glassed before

aft wall
laminating aft wall water tank.jpeg
inside wall lams
laminating inside wall water tank.jpeg
dry fit of pvc pipe and opening the hole at the bottom of the tank
this pipe will be used to route the battery cables to the windlass and from the battery bank to the switch board.
i think its an elegant solution, iintending to keep cable runs as short as possible and keeping then out of sight.
hole drilled for pvc pipe.jpeg
pipe glassed in
applied a couple of layers but will do a couple more. this isnt something i want failing anytime soon as that would entail cutting the lid to access that job and then re glassing the lid again.
electric acess pipe glassed in.jpeg
finally i got around to glass some lid supporting lips around the perimeter of the tank, to enable a surface for the lid to set in.
filleting the lid supporting lips in place.jpeg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

more laminations

i took the time to laminate both side bunks walls to the hull (only stb is depicted)
another vire stb bunk lamination.jpeg
another view. note the insertion of a a small "shield" piece which ensures the watertightness of the bunk whislt creating space to undo the transdcer from the inside.
laminating stb bunk storage woth shield install.jpeg
V berth cabinetry reinforcement
reinforcing port side cabinetry.jpeg
semi partition laminations
reinforcing semi bulkhead and stb locker.jpeg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

the new enlisted refit crew
not sure how this is going to work in the peak of summer, but aniway the dehumidifier is something i would have always need to get for the future.
the fan sure does keep the air moving inside. i have a portable battery operated one that i keep closer to myself at times
dehimidifier.jpg
fan.jpg
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Post by pmnfernando »

the weather this weekend was surprinsingly cold and not so humid and with the help of the dehumidfier i consider the chance of doing some "outside" work, namely laminations that need done so i can crack on the reflooring of the cockpit.

the summer/raining tent has been already up for a few weeks now, tryin to keep water out as much as possible

outside view
exterior tent.jpg
this is how it looks on the inside
the outside tent.jpg
keeping the tent and blasting the fan and dehumidifier enabled me to laminate new gutters in
glassin work.jpg
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Post by pmnfernando »

more lamination work

portside semi bulkhead before filleting and lamination
before glassing.jpg
after
after lam.jpg
main bulkhead stb side lam (portside was also done)
mainbullkhead glassing.jpg
stb side semi bulkhead lam
lamination parrtiton.jpg
im rounding up the profile of the plywood to accept a glass wrap around.
from my experience i would say 6mm radius is the minimum one can conform biax cloth, though 10mm is much more confortable to do. sometimes you simply dont have the thickness, but it ended up nicely
rouding the edge for glassing.jpg
rounded edge lam
rounded edge lam.jpg
i also got around to tab and laminate the water tank baffle (which is still missing the very corner of it)
water tank baffle lam.jpg
and this is how the boat looks on the inside. a very tight glass workshop
it works and its temporary....well a few more months i suppose......
glassing workshop.jpg
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Post by pmnfernando »

final laminations and cockpit floor

i dont need to tell you guys how hard and difficult it was to laminate this piece over head......
lots of cursing on this one
portside upperlam.jpg
and still go time to clean the edges on the openings on the cockpit floor piece, prepping it up for the next step> building the lids
because i reinforced all the edges, both inside and outside the piece ended up pretty stiff which was what i was looking for in the end
cleaned up edges cockpit floor.jpg
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Post by pmnfernando »

the refit continues

im trying to gain some of the time lost during the dry season.
start working on the boat at 5am, by 0930 am was already tired and hot as f"#$ inside.
Will try to keep that going. its almost 5 hours of work, but not really sure how feasible its going to be, going forward.

aniway got some stuff done today and yesterday

got the under cockpit partitions glassed in (completed)
i did set the cockpit floor in to have a look, and some trimming will be need. nothing much, max 5mm taken for the top of the middle partition to keep the floor leveled
partitions glassed.jpeg
had enough time to glass the reinforcement lams onto the dinghy storage locker to starboard.
it isnt finished as i need to complete the overhead lams that connect the semi bulkhead to the cockpit seat
dinghy storage locker lam reiinforcement.jpeg
then proceeded to make a template for the water tank lid
this ist the moment where i realized the template was locked in place, making it impossible to remove, thus impossible the make a one piece lid.
the center strip marks the place where the split will be done. it is purposedly staggered from the baffle to give me some anchoring surface to glass the aft lid in.
realizing the template is locke din.jpeg
after splitting the template
splitting the template.jpeg
aft lid section
i will epoxy a small lip in which the aft cut of the fwd lid will sit, to help support it, not really worried as it will be all glassed from the outisde in all sides
halt template.jpeg
lastly i got enough time to scribble the fuel tank lid inside the locker
eyeballing it to be around 150litre, is definetely less than the water tank, so im trying to judge one from the other. aniway when all its done and upon the first filling all will be revealed.
te lid has a somewaht pronounced tilt built in, towards the centre of the boat and it will drain straight onto the gutters ive built keeping as dry as possible
fuel tank line scribbling.jpeg
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Post by pmnfernando »

starting the cockpit lids

i had the cockpit floor piece cut for a long time now
i kept the cutouts and that was a smart move because i ended up using them as the lids
you will notice on the aft lid the cutout was placed inverted, somehow it fit better that way
cockpit flor glass lids.jpeg
i then applied taped all over the surface as a release agent
cut the strips and glassed them
this is a initial step to enable a surface where i will laminate a couple more layers onto to achieve the necessary rigidity
cockpit floorglassing the lid lip.jpeg
it had cured enough to be demoulded in a couple of hours
small lid outside view
small lid demoulded outside.jpeg
inside view
small lid demoulded interior.jpeg
big lid inside view
big lid demoulded.jpeg
i've yet to clean and trim the edges to its final shape, its a "next weekend" project i guess
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Post by pmnfernando »

water tank lids

cut the G10 pieces following the templates previously done
after a few additional cuts i was able to fit everything together
aft lid rough fit.jpeg
i will glass a strip on G10 on the aft lid to act as a stopper/lip onto which the fwd lid will rest.
both lids fitted.jpeg
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Post by pmnfernando »

i was feeling like templating a bit more and decided to have a crack at the V berth cabinetry
felt like it was a good idea to template the port and center lockers in one piece since i had kinda guessed the actual piece would, not only fit in one half sheet of G10, but also fit thru the main bulklhead.

i actually got it right this time, yay!

templating port and center lockers
templating port and center fwd lockers.jpeg
transfering to G10
bit of waste there in wierd shaped pieces but cant do anything about that for now.
im thinking of finally getting my router inverted onto a table, with a decent fence, and square up every bit of waste and laminate all of it together into a "full" sheet...maybe when the boat is finished.......
it fit.jpeg
cut piece
piece cut.jpeg
rough fit
imposing toilet footprint to establish partition location.jpeg
building this as a one piece meant that i had to decide on the position for the composting toilet (the plywood you see on top of the "counter" is the toilet in its stored position) and, by doing that, i had noticed that there was real estate for yet more storage.
this, in turn, meant an extra partition to be glassed in, thus more templating

backlit for a better understanding of the space available
backlit for better view.jpeg
templating the partition
i do all this with with a simple 9 inch spirit level, some battens, and a carpenter square, and a sprinkle of eyeballing
if you are reading this, please be smart and get yourself one of them tiling laser levels, that makes the job way easier.
fwd parition template.jpeg
partition cut
fwd partition cut G10.jpeg
fwd storage space
fwd storage.jpeg
with the lids cutout
lid cutout.jpeg
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pmnfernando
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

additional storage to STB

i have yet to decide whether the composting toilet will slide out on heavy duty sliders from it topsides (like a regular drawer) or some floor sliding...thing.
this decision imposes a design change on the front facade for the toilet.
if i make the toilet coming out of a cubby hole it means a have to glass cubby opening which will further reinforce the whole cabinetry and im inclined to do that. i need to devise a way to secure the sliders (topside or floor ones)

this is also importan becase it will determine how much wall space i will have to make an additional storage unit, on stb
im hoping you have enough of a 3D vision to see how the storage is going to look.

looking aft
new storage looking aft.jpeg
looking fwd
new storage looking fwd.jpeg
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pmnfernando
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Post by pmnfernando »

refit update

sad news
i went to the marina today to find out that the small room where i had a lot of materials, spares, original boat hardware, the whole dissasembled engne waiting for its rebuild phase, epoxy resin, G10 leftovers, among boat equipment and whatever you may think off, was simply trashed.

someone decided to simply clean the room and trash everything in it.
lost my engine, lost pieces of cabinetry that were built and ready to be glassed in, lost all the bilge tanks.

I am still in shock
i went from having 3k in yanmar spares waiting to be used, to having to buy a whole engine.

this sounds surreal but this is chinese culture for you: no respect for others people stuff, no discerning ability to understand what is trash or what it not
the loss is in the tens of thousands USD, and im not even accounting for my labour.

looking forward to be able to bring happier news in the comings months.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by Lloyd »

That would be a major set back if it had happened to me. Hope you are able to continue with the project.
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pmnfernando
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Post by pmnfernando »

Hello Lloyd

This is a major blow, quite devastated to be honest.
Ive lost so much stuff that i dont even know the full extent of it.

For example it was only yesterday i realized ive lost the aluminium mast step and its SS baseplate. Having lost that entails losing all the referencing to the mast location in relation to the hull.
I now have to resort to photos and eyeballing to get as close as i can to get its proper position. there was a aluminium spacer i was going to replace aniway for some G10, but now im having to shape a mast step out of G10 as well. and i also was rredesigning the baseplate aniway but i had the positions to then translate onto the new one.

I will be confined to working either on the pontoon finger or inside the boat for the rest of the refit, dealing with 1 m2 sheets thats going to be another exercise in itself. not only the loss is huge, the working conditions are almost non existent given that i wont even have a shaded place in which to have a working bench.
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Post by pmnfernando »

since i dont have the original rudder shaft to make a copy, im left wondering if i can take this oppurtunity to enhance the rudder shaft arrangement.

The original arrangement had a vertical section and a slightly angled section, they were welded onto each other.
WhatsApp Image 2022-02-26 at 19.02.03.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2022-02-26 at 19.01.11.jpeg
as you can see, the place of that weld is, one could say, at the worst possible location, physics and protection wise.

im wondering if i can simplifly and enhance the safety of it all by keeping the shaft vertical for as long as i could and then reorienting the grp halves in relation to it so that i get to maintain the original aspect ratio so to speak.

Out of the top of my head this would mean;
a longer and more pronounced tapering for the shaft;
aditional welded gussets between the horizontal web and the shaft
and, close to the very bottom, a welded angled piece of shaft in order to bridge the wingspan of the rudder and making sure the tiller motion/load is transfered to the maximum rudder area possible.

it does involve welding an angled piece of shaft but it would be completely enclapsulated inside the 2 halves
A quick depiction of it in Cad
rudder screenshot.jpg

From the photos i have, i can assume that the bottom end of the spade is parallel to the ground. That should provide a datum point for all the angles

would be great to have some feedback. i think it works but do let me know if im missing something
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by atomvoyager »

Sorry to hear about the loss.
I also don't see why it needed to be bent at the entry point. Rudders come in all sorts of shapes and there's nothing about yours that necessarily has to be duplicated as long as you have adequate total surface area, the right percent overhang forward of the pivot point for a semi-balance rudder, and a fair tapered surface.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by CapnK »

NO Way! Man, I just spent two days catching up on your thread, seeing all the great progress, and then today, get to the end, and - this.

Man, my heart goes out to you. That just sucks. I cannot begin to imagine how frustrated and plain angry you must feel.

Words fail me.

If I can help somehow...
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Post by pmnfernando »

Hello CapnK

Thanks for the support man, appreciated.
It has been hard these past few days and despite the fact im trying to regroup and even redesigning stuff, it will take some time to fully recover from this in its entirety.

If you know anyone wanting to buy Yanmar spares for a 2GM20, i have 3000 USD worth of it, that i dont have a use for. Supplier wont take it back. Asked for a quotation in the hopes of: maybe you guys can accept the spares back and give me a good discount on the price of the new engine. nah, they came back with, literally, a 150 USD discount "attending to my situation". that got me laughing as did the price. 11000 USD for a 3YM20. I guess yanmar lost a costumer.

Im looking into other brands like Sole Diesel which has an interesting 27Hp engine for a much better price. im just trying to get hold of the asian supplier and cross reference info about the engine mounts and overall clearances. i can work around the mountings but i really need to double check the engine volume.

since i have the boat in pieces now its the time to cut into it, if need be to make way for anything. Within reason. if the engine is too big then i need to go for another model. Sole diesel has a 17 hp model, which is basically the HP of the old Yanmar, but since im forced to repower i would like to get something more efficient, bit more torque to make for steady motoring but also for close quarters maneuvering, which is where torque comes in handy imo.

I am moving forwards though and i will be sailing this boat in the future, things just got delayed in time and the other kind of time: money (i hope the engine supplier likes installments like i do....)
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Post by pmnfernando »

New chainplates redesign

Since they have vanished also, it would be really stupid to not improve upon what´ve done almost 2 years ago.
Its the same basic concept with a slightly different shape for all of them.

I decided to reinforce the small chainplate by making a taper from the bottom to top, as opposed to having a T shape. i think this will make for a much stronger piece.

The other difference in shape came to me a few days ago.
I had decided since the begining to not reinstall genoa cars. There were some reasons for that: first they would have to be bolted thru the toerail (where they originally were) leading me to drill a lot of holes for that. I could install them on the side deck for sure, but for a boat with such a narrow area to begin with, i wasnt inclined to further mess it up by intruducing yet another trip hazard.
The other is cost. those tracks, cars and what have you are damn expensive! and even more when you want the real fancy adjusting ones
Another one is weight but im adding quite a few heavy hardware items (and more to come) so im just really trying to offset some of the final weight.

to bypass the genoa track i opted to install a stationary block on a suitable deck eyepad, leading the sheet to the winch and resort to using twings to further trim the sail.
Up until a few days ago was going to anchor the twings onto another eyepad placed closer to the rigging.

Then suddenly i realized that i could use the external chainplates to anchor them, giving me 3 modes of trimming.
Thats the reason for that weird looking offset eye.
NEW REDESIGNED CHAINPLATES.jpg
the twings will be built from dyneema and low friction rings on a 2 or 3 to 1 purchase system, with all 3 lines lead aft to the cockpit enabling me to adjust from there.
Since the boat is being tought out for cruising, i will have a 100% genoa, anything above that is just asking for trouble for solo handling.
With this in mind i think the briddle formed by the anchor points will provide the appropriate tweaking range i will ever need.

the low weight of the line and ring will save the deck from any flogging upon tacking (thats what im expecting....)
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by CapnK »

I like the twing idea vs a track - very sensible, easier to rig up, much cheaper, adjustable from cockpit. Win win. :)
Kurt and Barque, the CrewDog.
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Post by pmnfernando »

for sure im making the good folks at Raymarine swear at me : "why is this guy complicating stuff that we've made easier", only with much more savoury language.

all this because i want the tiller AP drive unit below decks and as much out of the way as possible.

raymarine states a 460mm distance from the rudder axis to the point where the drive unit connects to the tiller
you can see by this photo why this would be a problem, if i put the tiller arm inline with the rudder: if i want to go into the lazarette the whole system will be in my way.
that thin ply strip represents that distance
picture 2.jpg
on this next photo its clear why i couldnt mount the tiller arm going forwards , which is what i initially wanted, even if i needed to cut into the cockpit well. i decided against that after taking measurements to design the new ruder shaft (currently being designed) and realizing the tiller arm would have to be way higher up then previously thought, meaning i would lose space at knee height, rather than heel height inside the cockpit. i was confortable with is being closer to the ground because it would give a little step, but at knee height i think it does restricts movement on a already small area

the distance from the center of the stern post to the cockpit molding is 150 mm, a far cry from the 460 mm.
picture 1.jpg
the next drawing is my attempt of getting a tiller arm shape that gets out of the way , whilst enabling me to mount the pilot drive unit in a fore/aft direction.
drawing 1  proposed rudder tiller arm shape.jpg
the departure angle of 36 degrees comes from research stating that it is the maximum ideal angle to which the rudder should move either side of centreline.

so now ive sent all this to raymarine and asked:
is it this possible?
and how critical is that 460mm dimension? because i now need that dimension to be bigger.
in terms of leverage i think it works because the further away from the axis the lesser the forces involved in moving the rudder, but, at the same time, you loose range of motion.

i would also connect the lines from the (future) windvane to this tiller arm, keeping all the lines below deck.
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pmnfernando
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

got some answers from Raymarine.
gotta say the fella that has been talking to me as been great.
been pestering him for the last 2 days with questions back and forth.

He doesnt seem keen on working around the 460 mm distance between the rudder axis and autopilot, and suggested a different AP model, which is WAY more expensive.

I kept thinking this is possible to do mainly because the AP, although with a stroke range of 150mm either side of amidships, only goes there to tack.
95% of its work is small corrections.
Personally i think that if a person aint able to tack, single handling, without a autopilot, then it should be playing Microsoft Sailing Simulator in the confort of the living room, instead of being out there. its a great help for sure, but over reliance on electronics doesnt sharpen skills , imo.

the following its a drawing i did, showing the stroke range for a hard lock to port (red) and the same to std (green) and how that relates to the final position of thetiller arm and drive unit.
Going to port there is no problem as everything lines up
Going to Stb is a different story because the AP drive needs to swing 13 degrees to std in order to rully retract. and make ends meet, literally.
So long the drive unit is able to swing, i think its possible to do this.
stroke range.jpg


as far as a mechanical remote engaging/desengaging system to raise/lower the drive unit into the tiller arm pin (rudder has to be manually centered first) it occured me to use a morse cable just like the one we use to engage fwd/reverse on the engine.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

Managed to pass by the marina and took some measurements and angles from the rudder grp halves

I was then possible to use autocad and easily determine the rudder area.
Since i was able to pinpoint, as precisely as i could, the entry point of the rudder shaft i could also determine the rudder area forward of it. it came out at 13%
I then went to a Dave Gerr book and found that his magic number is 17.
Meaning that 17% is the optimal area size forward of the shaft.
In the following drawing you can see the difference in size and the small wedge i will be glassing to attain the 17% area.
rudder area plus balancing.jpg


To do this im thinking of closing the rudder as you would if no wedge where to be applied.
Then use 3 mm G10 for the wedge and supporting frames (much like frames steming from the keel). i think expanding foam will do as a filler and those side frames will become a good reference to sand and fair the shape, then cover everything in a couple of layers of biaxial.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

also got time to move forward about designing the shaft and playing with the flanged UHMWPE bearing i draw a couple of weeks ago.
Upon imposing the bearing on the shaft arrangement it was visible that, to maintain the flange would force me to drop everything down to make space for it, plus some clearance.

By the time all that was considered i had a gap of 30mm between the hull and the rudder.
(bearing is represented as the yellow hatch)
UHMWPE flange bearing conflict.jpg

This is too much of a gap and poses 2 issues:
loss of lift and an increase in the lateral forces on the rudder.

I could minimize the gap by adding up a couple of layers of G10. At the same time that would change the rudder balance because i would be increasing the total area.
There was nothing i could do to prevent the increase in lateral force.(either because i would increase the area and set the rudder deeper)

i got thinking about a way of bypassing the flange. The sole purpose of it is to prevent the bearing to spin up and out of the place where it is needed the most: right at the intersection of the hull bottom and the rudder post, where most forces are present at any given time.

i came up with the idea of extending the bearing lenght to 200 mm and machining a small groove all around it to accomodate 3 set screws which would hold it in place.
The rudder post will be made of a pultruded fibreglass tube with 10mm wall thickness so its enough to tap a thread.

this is all happening below the waterline so water ingress thru the set screw hole is a reality. I think that pluging that with butyl tape and cinge everything together with a jubilee clamp is enough to keep the water out

bearing in yellow hatch
rudder post in green hatch
set screw in red
white rectangular section refers to the jubilee clamp.
alternative bearing solution.jpg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

i think i got the tiller arm and shaft designed.
just waiting for the ppl at jefa rudders to clear a few questions and dimensions so i can go and order their tiller head

Shaft
max diameter is 60mm
tapers to 40mm towards tiller head
tapers to 30mm inside the rudder
small (yellow)angled piece max diameter is 30mm and tapers to 20mm at the very end
got 5 horizontal web pieces instead of the original 4
in green you see reinforcing gussets connecting the web
all gussets and web to be 3 mm SS
the keyway (towards the top) is machined to STD and will engage the AP/Windvane tiller arm to the shaft
keyway is a 11 x 18 mm section as per standards for a 60 mm shaft.
shaft profile.jpg


AP/Windvane tiller arm
turned out quite beefy
did some research online and came to a square box section of 150mm side by 40mm thick
All other pieces in green and yellow are 12 mm thick and to be welded to themselves and to the square section
The 2 halfs are brought together by 2 ( 12 mm x 150mm long hex bolts).
The idea is to tap the threads all the way through both pieces.


Maybe the square section could be smaller.
If anyone has experience sizing up this kind of hardware let me know. i dont mind overbuilding but if there is no need then its just more weight.....
tiller arm 3D view.jpg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

in the meanwhile got some answers from the raymarine tech.
what a nice guy.
gave me a very nice tip about splitting the 13 degree angle in half in order to educe the effort for the AP. This can be done by offsetting the fixed pin of the tiller on its initial position. easily done.
great news, it mean i can proceed as planned, and with a considerable cheaper piece of kit

on the other hand, the support from Jeffa has been laughable.
they keep coming back saying: we dont have any information on this rudder. then proceed to show me pdf drawings of their stuff, which i already know, and im asking questions about.

you would think they would be telling me: listen we need this or that info to be able to establish a few things on our part, right?1 nah, too much work it seems.

does anyone here ever bought any of their tiller systems? if so, what boat do you own?
https://jefa.com/ftp/rudder/Tillerheads/

for anyone interested you can check that link and it will show you different models according to the rudder shaft
i was leaning towards the 47040BR since im designing the top of my rudder shaft with 40mm OD.

Most dimensions add up to my tiller helmet, (which is the only piece i have), apart from its lenght. mine measures at 400mm and Jeffa's sits at 220mm.
Hence my doubt: will the tiller helmet be long enough for the forces involved.?
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

slept on the tiller arm overall size and after using some of Jeffa's drawings i decided that the square sectio was indeed way to big for whats needed.

i resized it to a 100mm square section and drop the bolts from M12 to M8
this is just a 3D model of the new size,it does feel more adequate in the end
final APtiller arm.jpg
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by atomvoyager »

I haven't been following this rudder build too closely and it's a type I don't have much experience with other than using using and doing maintenance on various spade rudders on small boats. For your size boat the revised tiller arm and Jeffa Tillerhead assembly look more than adequate for your boat. Assuming the wall thickness is sufficient then the 220mm length seems proportional. I'm not sure why you'd want it any longer.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

Hi Atomvoyager

thanks for joining in on the discussion and bringing some experience.
good to know that Jeffa's model suits the purpose.
Its not that i wanted it to be bigger. Its just that when there is such a difference in a given dimension, and keepig in mind that more often than not, there is a reason for things being the way they are, i was a bit unsure.

ive enjoyed your electric outboard review
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

too hot to work but not hot enough to not make progress on other smaller projects.

i say i progressed....and i did.... but only after 3 hours + and some bits of G10 later.

since the boat is being design for solo handling it makes sense having the lines led aft to the cockpit. i know this is a big topic for some, but im on the side that thinks: everytime i avoid going fwd, specially alone, is one my cat lives i get to keep.
so the decision was made early on to lead the lines aft. for that i need deck organizers....which are expensive.

so i decided to make my own version of it resorting to G10 and low friction rings
ive got some rings (not cheap stuff when you buy a few, but easier and cheaper to replace 1 by 1 in the long run), measured them and designed the frame around them
a couple of days ago i got the 3mm ply templates laser cut
laser cut.jpg
the frame is composed of 4 pieces in total. the top, bottom and 2 locking ones (which is the one with small glove fingers)

today i routed the 3 mm G10
routing the G10.jpg
the top and bottom line up
main pieces.jpg
the objective is to get the rings locked inside a G10 frame whose bottom piece will be glassed to the cabin top permanently and all other pieces will be held in place by bolts, that compress the layers together and linking them to the bottom bit.
locking pieces.jpg
Even without bolting the whole thing together it does work. The rings get properly locked.
I knew beforehand i had to account for each 3 mm thick layer and i should have drawn that straight away in CAD. it would have saved having to free hand those adjustment some of which turned a bit ugly.


The concept works, but i guess im making the locking pieces in 2mm thick stainless and turning that into a small feature piece in the boat.
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Re: Introducing Katie-J

Post by pmnfernando »

initial look at the new fwd hatch in situ
hatch looking aft.jpg
fwd hatch initial fit.jpg
from the next photo is clear what im doing next:
i shall cut the ring where the hatch sits, in order to bolt it flush to the deck riser moulding
hatch too proud of surface.jpg
leaving it like that not only looks ugly as it would foul lines and a lot of toes!


back at the cockpit i was able to determine the final position for the windlass buttons
the rectanglish shape seen there represents the engine control unit footprint which gives me a better feel for the position of the buttons
windlass buttons scriblling.jpg
after drilling with a hole saw
windlass buttons.jpg
for a guy that will be sailing alone i think it makes more sense to have the buttons where i willl be: at the tiller and using the engine to ease the windlass job when it comes to retrieve the hook.
if i feel a fwd button, at the bow, might be something that comes in handy i might consider installing one, but thats far away in the future
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