Bill Tripp's Proportions

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Case
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Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Case »

This is serious boat nerdish stuff. Some may find it interesting. Or find me to be a bit insane...

I was overlaying measurements of the Block Island 40 and the Mercer 44...

I found out that Bill Tripp tended to specify 6'6" long berths. Lots of the brochures mentioned that so I used that number. So I used a small piece of paper and traced out the length of the berths. Found out that that same length repeated again for the overhangs and for the length of the centerboard. Exact length! Well, maybe not exactly but within inches.

I then found out that the deepest draft point always corresponded to the top of the coamings just aft of the cabin. Same distances! I'm not done yet... The height of the bow always was the same as the tallest part of the cabin (not including pulpits). Lastly, when you halve the boat lengthwise, you will find that the cabin edges were always midpoint to the end of the deck.

Those proportions also was repeated in the Hinckley Bermuda 40 which is a near twin to the Block Island 40. There may be more designs with similar proportions.

- Case
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Hirilondë »

Have you tried to relate any/all of this to the "Golden Mean"? (also known as the golden ratio)
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Rachel
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

Well at least I'm not the only one who takes scraps of paper and graph paper and fiddles around with the old drawings :^)

(Nerdy loves company.)

Rachel

PS: Just don't slip and poke the monitor with your pen if you are home without a printer ;)
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Rachel
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

Oh, and I'm not sure what documents you need or use for your analysis, but it would be interesting to see how some of his other designs compared (if you are interested, of course).

Polaris/Sailmaster, 26' centerboarder:

Image

Image

Image

Tripp-Lentsch 29:

Image

Tripp 30:

Image

I might have some more, tucked away somewhere :)
Case
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Case »

I'm aware of the Golden Mean. I studied architecture for a while in a previous life.

Rachel - I'm glad I'm not the only one who pore over the drawings! Those smaller Tripp boats don't seem to have the same proportions like the 40 footers, though. Not in relation to the berth lengths, that is. Without printing out papers and doing actual measurements, I can see that the larger Tripp designs you showed does show one feature: The bow is almost as tall as the top of the cabin. The cabin is a bit taller, though. I don't see anything else at the moment.

Try printing out the plans for the Bermuda 40, Block Island 40 and Mercer 44 then measure them. The repeating proportions are truly dramatic in these three designs. It literally looks like Tripp decided to use the berth lengths to determine many other things. I don't see this sort of repeating proportions as much in other designs.

I will have to start looking at other designs in the 40 feet range. I think repeating proportions are more likely to occur in this size range. Will have to investigate...

- Case
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Rachel
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

Okay, right, I can see that. A person does not get any smaller lying down just because the boat is smaller, so the boat proportions would almost have to change in relation to berth length as the LOA got smaller.

(I had kind of forgotten that it was all related to berth length in my excitement over finding out that someone else sat around checking out the old drawings and poking at them with scale rulers.) (Mine are mostly of boats about 33' and shorter.)
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I've got better scans of the LeComte Tripp boats than appear on the LeComteOwner's site. I'll have a look at 'em. I think, however, that the saloon berths in Quetzal, a NE 38, are 6'-3" long. Scaled by me, of course. I sleep on one of the settees with my head a bit away from the galley and my feet hang out past the fireplace end. Of course, if less were turned out as feet, I'd be taller than 6'-3"! The forepeak berths are closer to 6'-6".

I think it's more likely that he had a 'look' for his CCA boats and tended to sketch what he liked. He was reputed to repeat what was successful, and who would not? The LeComtes have decidedly more sweep to their sheer than his other boats of the day; I think his European client, Dolf LeComte, probably had an influence. His chunky Columbias look like a family. Charlie Morgan's boats tend to look like Morgan's boats, too.

As for smaller boats looking different than their larger cousins, perhaps the dimensions of their intended crews are a determinant.

Love that Golden Section! Too bad today's architects pay it, and other traditional proportioning systems, no mind in favor of 'creativity'!
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by mitiempo »

There was a Medallist from Seattle visiting our marina a few weeks ago. I have always loved the look of that design as well as many of Tripp's other designs. The bubble shaped house adds to it.
To quote Bob Perry from another site "Tripp's bows were beautiful, slow but beautiful."
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

Just for the record, he said they were "bold" (vs. beautiful). I don't mention that to nitpick, but just because I think it gives a different sense.

Rachel

PS: Also, I don't believe he meant slow compared to similar boats, reading his comment in context. The thread was about CCA boats and how more modern designs can make better (and faster) cruisers. And he was talking about how so many of his favorite boats were CCA boats that he found it hard to speak ill of them. So I took him to mean more like "slow.... as all CCA boats are with their particular design compromises as compared to more modern boats." I also think he meant Bill Tripp, Jr.

PPS: The actual quote: "I miss the bows that Bill Tripp Sr. drew. They were,,,,bold. Slow, but bold."
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Bluenose »

Rachel wrote:Well at least I'm not the only one who takes scraps of paper and graph paper and fiddles around with the old drawings :^)

(Nerdy loves company.)

Rachel

PS: Just don't slip and poke the monitor with your pen if you are home without a printer ;)
I have been known to scan or import a lines drawing into my old copy of Autocad, scale it to size and lay splines over the image until I have redrawn the boat.

In my own defense, it is dark, wet and cold up here in the winter.

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Rachel
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

Bluenose wrote:In my own defense, it is dark, wet and cold up here in the winter.
Oh, but no defense needed! You are amongst friends in the "Boat Nerdery" department. Here you have to apologize for not doing such things ;^)
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by BALANCE »

What is also interesting about this is that Tripp himself was quite short.
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by mitiempo »

Rachel - I stand corrected. Bold it is. But he did mean Bill Tripp Sr. I don't think junior was designing in the 60's when the CCA was the rule. IOR was introduced around 1970 with Olin Stephens heavily involved in its formation. It replaced the Cruising Club of America rule which to my eye produced boats that were for the most part much easier to look at.
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

mitiempo wrote:Rachel - I stand corrected. Bold it is. But he did mean Bill Tripp Sr. I don't think junior was designing in the 60's when the CCA was the rule. IOR was introduced around 1970 with Olin Stephens heavily involved in its formation. It replaced the Cruising Club of America rule which to my eye produced boats that were for the most part much easier to look at.
I may be wrong, but I don't know of Bill Tripp, Sr. being a boat designer at all. Bill Tripp, Jr. designed many of the "classic plastic" we are discussing here, and then his son, Bill Tripp, III designed a number of later boats (and is still designing, I think, although his boats are not really in my typical interest niche so I don't really keep up on them).

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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by mitiempo »

You're right Rachel. The one I am calling senior is Bill Tripp II, the designer of many plastic classics. And I agree that Bill Tripp III's designs don't really appeal to me either.
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I confess, I confess. I swear I read something saying that Block Island Bill's (William II) dad (William) was a yacht designer, but I could not re-find the reference the last time this came up. Bermuda Bill's (William II) dad (William) was a civil engineer.

Wally Bill's (William III) a yacht designer with decidedly different tastes from most of us who like Classic Plastic and older designs: http://www.trippdesign.net/#/home
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Tim »

God, I'm confused. What was once crystal clear now is horribly muddied.

In the future, if someone on this forum says "Tripp", I think we all know who we're talking about without the semantics about Jr, II, III, XVIII, or whatever. :<)
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Quetzalsailor »

Tripped out, eh?
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Re: Bill Tripp's Proportions

Post by Rachel »

How did "Block Island" Bill turn into "Bermuda Bill"? That's where I got lost. (Also, I don't think Bill Tripp, Jr. ever went by "II, but that wasn't as confusing.)

Next up: Herreshoff and Bach ;)
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