Balmar alternator and regulator

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Quetzalsailor
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Balmar alternator and regulator

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I've got a house bank of 2 105 AH lead acid batteries and a starting bat. I've got a 100amp Balmar alternator and Balmar ARS-4 regulator. The house bank did not make it through the winter (they were at least 4 seasons old). Before I pulled them I had weekly and repeatedly charged them with the 110v charger. When the boat was splashed, I noticed that the Balmar stuff would pulse, presumably trying to charge this bad bank but possibly just faulty. The pulses would show on the ammeter as +0 to +50ish at say, 2 second intervals. They show on the battery test voltmeters as +12.5 up to 14+. And you can hear the load coming and releasing on the engine.

I just talked to a techie at Balmar who thinks that I'll be buying a new regulator after I verify the tightness, condition of the wiring, including the fuse.

Thoughts? I will gladly entertain them; a new Balmar regulator is listed $400.
David

Post by David »

What is the resting voltage of your house bank. My guess is the bank is essentially dead. Let them rest for 24 hours with no load or charging and see what it is before you replace your regulator. My guess is the battery charger over cooked them and the plates are now sulfated beyond help.

If they are dead and are flooded batteries, you may be able to equalize them with a good charger and bring them back.

Good luck,

David
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Post by bcooke »

Regulator was my first thought but...

Have you checked or replaced the batteries yet?

If you haven't:

Have you checked the batteries with them disconnected from the boat? I am guessing the (6v?) house battteries should be holding at 6.5+ volts all charged up. If you are getting under 6 then I would say the battery is toast. Or maybe the connection between the two house batteries isn't good and only one battery is actually online? If the regulator senses 6 volts from the one battery it will definitely push the alternator to the max.

The starting battery should be above 12v.

If you have a dead cell in the battery the regulator might be trying to kick the alternator into overdrive to charge the dead cell. There is probably another sense circuit in the regulator that is shutting the alternator down when two much current is trying to flow. The regluator might be trying to prevent the alternator from cooking itself.

If the batteries are known to be good then yeah, I would suspect the regulator. The fact that the alternator is willing to produce 50+ amps at any time, I think , means it is working.
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Post by Zach »

Hmm. Not sure what would cause a regulator to pulse like that, unless its trying to bounce between charging cycles. Have you checked the output of the alternator? If you have a toasted diode the output will be choppy... Who knows how the regulator sees those spikes of voltages?

Did some poking around, found your ARS-4 Regulator for $177.97
http://www.thesolar.biz/Balmar_Regulators.htm
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Quetzalsailor
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Post by Quetzalsailor »

Thanks for your thoughts. The batts are 12v. I charged them repeatedly, weekly, with the 110v charger for the nearly three months I worked on the boat on land. The house bank repeatedly lost charge from 12+v some time after charge, to down around 8v after a week. The newer starting bat was fine, having lost very little.

After launch, I ran the Balmar when on mooring or moving or the 110v when on the dock during one weekend. The next weekend, I isolated the bank from the boat, and before starting the engine, and found the usual 8v. Based upon knowing which bank was at fault, and its age of over 4 years, and signs of previous servicing (labels peeled), I treated myself to a pair of new, nearly identical West Marine Seaworthy batts.

These new batts hold their charge but the voltage fluctuations can't be good for them or anything else on the boat.

The Balmar guy said that the alternator 'is like a pump, it will either pump or it won't' so he does not fear for the alternator ot its diodes.
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Post by bcooke »

So with new batteries you are getting the 0-50 amp spikes?

Like the techie said, check your connections and then order a new regulator. The regulator isn't sensing the battery voltage correctly and is sending mixed signals to the alternator. When the regulator senses full charging voltage in the system it turns the alternator off. When the regulator senses no voltage its says "OMG turn it on, TURN IT ON!!" and you get your spike.
If you have a toasted diode the output will be choppy
You would need an ocilliscope to read that choppy output though. An alternator spinning at 1000 rpm is producing 60 to 120 pulses per second (roughly - depending on the design).
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Considering the failures

Post by Maine Sail »

Considering the two failures I've had of Balmar regulators (this is not uncommon) my guess is that it is a regulator issue and you will need a new one. They replaced mine for me after I discovered that my PC board failure was not an uncommon one and sent them a few forum threads of folks other than me who had the same thing happen.. I'd fight with them over this as they know they have had some issues..
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Post by Quetzalsailor »

It was the regulator.

3 hours, soaking wet with sweat on an airless Friday afternoon, and my new fancy Balmar regulator is up and running. It took the time since the old one was wired differently(!).
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Balmar regulators may not last long.

Post by Tom Young »

I had an AR4-s go in just a couple of seasons. They (Balmar) are pretty adamant about not going over the warranty as I'm sure they've had terrible luck with them.

I bought and Xantrex (looks like the same AR4-s with a now company name) last year and now on the second season. I have my doubts it'll last so I keep a simple Ford regulator wired and ready in a locker.

They're available for about 15 dollars and just aren't as bright but still work well enough to keep as a spare. They're bullet proof too.

One thing I did do is move the Xantrex out of the engine compartment to the galley where it's cooler. Still, the last one burned in the circuit board so it looks poorly designed.
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Post by Ceasar Choppy »

What about the MC-612? As long as you're replacing... I've had that installed in fairly close proximity to the engine room and have had no trouble with it in the four years I've had it...

EDIT: nevermind... I see you already installed your regulator.
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Post by Quetzalsailor »

I did buy an MC-612. It has the same chassis as the ARS-4, so that part was easy.

Hey! I like the idea of a Ford regulator ready to go. Wouldn't it connect right in to the Ford plug with no pain? Would it control the 100amp alternator w/o undue frying?
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Post by Tom Young »

Quetzalsailor wrote:I
Hey! I like the idea of a Ford regulator ready to go. Wouldn't it connect right in to the Ford plug with no pain? Would it control the 100amp alternator w/o undue frying?
Yes, it's pretty easy to install. I have a Balmar dual output 90 amp (I think) It (Ford) has spade terminals so I had to crimp a few wires which I left on for easy replacement.

I wired in a switch to turn the alternator off as of course the Ford regulator has no start up delay. I still use the switch as I like to allow the engine to warm up even longer before I turn the Balmar on.

The drawback of course is it will begin to cut back amperage more quickly as voltage increases at the batteries. It also charges at a lower voltage, I recall it wasn't too much lower though.

BUT; I ran it for two seasons and I don't find a dramatic difference in charging time and state of charge with our coastal sailing between the ARS4, Xantrex, Ford.

We tend to not get the batteries (house) up past about 80% charge after mid season. We just don't motor enough.

This season I took the time to change the program on the Xantrex to lead acid which is charging at a high voltage now. I'll know if that makes much difference in a few weeks.
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Well, things have changed!

Post by Tom Young »

Tom Young wrote:
Quetzalsailor wrote: BUT; I ran it for two seasons and I don't find a dramatic difference in charging time and state of charge with our coastal sailing between the ARS4, Xantrex, Ford.

We tend to not get the batteries (house) up past about 80% charge after mid season. We just don't motor enough.

This season I took the time to change the program on the Xantrex to lead acid which is charging at a high voltage now. I'll know if that makes much difference in a few weeks.
Wow! This programming DID change things on my charging system. Having just returned from a week sailing downeast, I saw an enormous difference.

First of all, with two teenagers we regularly ran laptops of an inverter. We really dragged the two 100amp grp 27 house down, something I hadn't done yet with new settings.

Well, at ramp up I noticed the analog amp meter climb to 60amps. But then it went by and pegged itself on the far side of the dial. Then of course the squealing started as we motored our way out of Western Way on our way to Frenchboro.

I let it go until we cleared the Western Way. The alternator was as hot as a pistol with the slipping belt. I turned it off (I have a switch in the cockpit) After letting the belt and alternator cool as the engine turned the fan, I turned it back on and it settled at under 60 amps.

AT any rate, that wasn't going to work as I had tightened the belt a couple times already. I now have a better belt installed but I believe I'll have to cut back the output on the regulator a bit. I'm not so sure, especially now with such a small house bank, the added amperage for the initial ramp up and bulk charge is worth the wear and tear on the belt/alternator. I'm no fan of overtightening these belts as that can cause damage to waterpumps, the alternator bearings themselves and even damage to the engines crankshaft and bearings.

I also don't want to get involved in a dual belt refit.

BTW, out of the box, my Xantrex delivered 14.3 volts and no more than 60 amps max at bulk charge. After changing the battery type setting to lead acid, it charged at 14.6 volts (I have a good quality digital volt meter) and was putting out what looked like it's full rated amperage.

Also, after allowing the batteries to rest for several days, they were at a considerably higher voltage than they would normally have been at while charging at the out of the box generic setting. I have not had a chance to check electrolyte level, this higher voltage may cause gassing.
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Post by Ceasar Choppy »

Tom,

What kind of engine do you have? And how many belts do you have?

I just installed a serpentine belt system on my Perkins 4-108 that got rid of this. After going through one or two belts a season, enough was enough. It now works like a charm and I don't have to worry about my water pump or bearings.
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I've seen that set up Caesar. Pretty nice.

Post by Tom Young »

Doing some research, I'm finding not only can this belt eating be annoying, it can lead to more costly repairs by over tensioning belts. An engine engineer suspects that may be what ruined my last engine. I had two alternators fitted, one a large frame with a 5/8" belt. The over tightening of this belt (over a couple decades) may have added the lateral forces that ultimately caused a timing gear to move.

I have a Nissan SD22 and although I could add a set of pulleys I have, I've decided to leave it the way it is. It wouldn't help me anyway as my waterpump sheeve could be hard to find a double.

The set up for your engine looks like an excellent design, I wish it were adaptable to my engine.
David

Post by David »

Tom,

The right size belt is a very detailed measurement- I mean the width and depth in the pully not the circumference. I would suggest two things (I run a 150 amp alternator on my Yanmar 3GM30F with a single belt with no problems whatsoever): Be sure that the alternator pulley is correct for your operating range and RPM range and speed to keep the alternator cool. I assume you have calculated all this but I just suggest it.
Second and more important, use a better belt. I had slipping and burning issues with the typical Yanmar belt and belts I bought at the auto parts store to replace them. Then I did some research--maybe you have too--and found Gates Green Stripe belts. These belts are industrial strength and simply don't slip and don't wear out. I have never had a problem after switching.

Obviously you want to be careful not to tighten the belt too much (true of any belt).

David
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