What would YOU do?

[Jason K]

See below a Triton in mortal peril:



OK, maybe that's a little dramatic, but here's the deal: The Triton in the above photo was, prior to the storm, in great shape. The interior was rough, but the decks seemed pretty good and she was clean. I have met the boat, but never the owner.

As it stands now, most of the insured boats have been removed from the harbor for repair or salvage auction. Those that remain are, in large part, the neglected hulks we discussed in the Aluminum Chainplates thread. The cost of recovering these vessels is very steep. For instance, I talked with one owner who paid $3000 to have his Easterly picked up off the sea wall and put into the water next to the seawall. So, many owners have left their boats to fate and are spurning efforts of recovery in the face of such steep costs.

Is that the case with this Triton? I don't know. I do know that it hasn't moved from this spot and is open to the weather. It has to be taking on water. A somewhat distant visual inspection reveals topsides damage, a lost rig, no pulpits or good stanchions (wonder if it rolled?), and myriad other, minor issues.

Coincidentally, I heard just yesterday of a derilect Triton not too far from New Orleans. It has no portlights, no rudder, and very little hardware, but the rig is with the boat. What if I could put that rig on this Triton?

I have no idea how to reach the owner. The harbor master was laid off with most of the city personnel. If the boat just sits there, it's likely to sink sooner or later as the companionway is wide open and the boat isn't secured to anything.

So, what would you do? Move the boat to a slip and leave a note? Pump her out and leave a note? Just leave a note? Or nothing?

As litigious a world we live in, I'm awful hesitant to go near it. At the same time, I see this boat almost every day and it kills me.

[Tim]

I wonder how salvage and related rights works in a situation like this? It seems obvious the boat is abandoned. Can one move and secure the boat to maintain its safety and then claim salvage?

I ask this not as a way to take advantage of anyone, but rather as a means to protect yourself from legal troubles if you undertake what is essentially a good Samaritan act with the best interests of the boat (and, by extension, her owner) in mind.

The actual answer to this is far beyond the feeble legal capacity of my mind. But it sure seems as if it would be nice to somehow secure the boat. I'd want that to happen if it were my boat. (Of course, I'd never desert my boat for months either.)

Sadly, the state of society is so poor today that one has to hesitate to do something that, in most normal circles, would be considered giving and nice--all because you, the do-gooder, might get into trouble. 'Tis a pity!

[A30_John]

Tim has a good suggestion there. You might want to consider paying a maritime law attorney for a legal opinion on the salvage issue. Another suggestion is find out what authority has control over the clean up of that area and ask them what rules are in place about going in there and securing the boat. There could be some temporary "hurricane relief" laws in effect that supercede the typical salvage situation.

[Jason K]

There could be some temporary "hurricane relief" laws in effect that supercede the typical salvage situation.

There are. Normal salvage rights are suspended, as some people found out with the added emphasis of the business end of automatic rifles (in some places, mainly SE Lousiana fishing communities). However, while there is still a military presence at the marina, they are bored and less than vigilant.

I think the boat might somehow find itself mysteriously moved and secured and I may await the owner that way. It is an interesting issue though, and I'm curious to hear different perspectives.

[A30_John]

Maybe if you can be the first to track down the owner, and you're the first to make an offer... perhaps you'll be able to buy it. Maybe instead of a martime law expert you need a private investigator! :-)

[MikeD]

Don't you register boats in LA? We pay taxes each year up here - there must records somewhere.

[dkall]

This explains your salvage rights and responsibilities:

http://www.safesea.com/boating_info/sal ... myths.html

This one may help you identify the owner:

http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html

Good luck. A new adventure is always fun...... in the begining. :)

[MikeD]

Don't you register boats in LA? We pay taxes each year up here - there must records somewhere.

Jason, in regards to my reply above, I hope it didn't come off as glib or insensitive. I'm sure I have no idea what it's like down there. I almost rolled out of bed last night a deleted it. I suppose I should have said something more like, "If you just just track down the owner's name, it'd be a start. Then you could look his address up in a phone book so you could determine where he lived, or see if he may have had relatives in the area, etc...." Anyway, my apologies for any apparent lack of sympathy for you folks down there.

[Jason K]

Mike - no worries! That's not how I read into it at all.

I actually typed out a fairly long post addressing the feasibility of salvage or contacting the owners, but it ended up a little longer, more off topic, and possibly more negative post than I intended, so I removed it. If you're curious, I stuck it here: http://www.triton218.com/forumpost .

I was just curious what you guys would do, if a boat like this Triton was in this state and you could possibly effect a change that would likely keep this boat sailing for quite a few more years.

For the purposes of this thread, salvaging the boat and/or contacting the owner are very long shots at this time. The decision has to be made without the express consent of the owner to move or secure the boat and without the intention to actually lay claim to the boat without eventually getting that permission. For the long version, click the link above.

This isn't the first Triton I've found, by the way. The other was called Marezdoats and I tried to track the owner down by the name of the boat, the registration number, calls to the salvors and I even taped a letter to the transom. It had blown ashore and was tangled in some small pine trees next to Southern Yacht Club. As best I can figure, it was thrown out with the yacht club debris (the club has been razed). I never heard a word about the boat.

That boat was in far worse shape, but it had a treasure trove of parts:

[Jason K]

Update time:

The Triton in the original post, which I have been keeping an eye on, broke loose from the boat house and was floating slowly up and down the harbor channel. It goes without saying that this was a hazard both to the Triton and also to a number of boats, including mine, that have moved near the same area (it's one of a few semi-functional marina areas).

Against the boathouse was bad, but the Triton banging around the harbor was unacceptable. I went out there on a lunch break to see if I could get a line around her. Unfortunately, she was precisely in the middle of the channel and, despite my best efforts at playing cowboy, I couldn't lasso the boat. I left defeated for the day.

On Friday, I called a friend with a kayak who agreed to meet me out there for a boat rescue operation. We managed to get a line securely tied to the boat and pulled it to an empty slip. It was very hard to pull as it turns out it was dragging the rig. Once we had her in the slip, I went aboard to find some lines to tie her up with, to survey the damage, and to find a clue as to who the owner may be.

She had a good bit of water aboard (as you might imagine). I pumped out the cabin, the cockpit, which had the drain plugs clogged, and the icebox, the lid of which was in the bottom of the cockpit.Once that was done, I organized the cabin to a state of semi-functional chaos.

Once slightly picked up, it was obvious this was a well-cared for boat. The decks were solid and the interior, while spartan, was clean (considering the circumstances). The A4 was painted and the hoses and wires looked like new.

I found a ship's log whose first entry was dated 1974! It continued through 2005 with maintenance and sailing notes. Absolutely incredible.

I also found the Coast Guard documentation for the boat, which had the name and address of the owner. Coincidentally, he lived very close to where I did in Lakeview. I wish I'd known him before the storm. It also lists this boat as hull number 594.

It turns out he is a local doctor and a professor at the Tulane Health Sciences Center. I've got a few phone numbers that have gone unanswered so far, but I should be able to talk to someone once the business week starts. I also found his Tulane email address and sent him a letter.

Here are a few photos:

[kendall]

I'd realy want someone to take care of my boat if it was in that condition, But speaking from the shape of the world as it is, document what you do for the boat and why, I was at a small lake a while ago and there was a small outboard boat drifting and getting in the way, hooked on to it and tied it up at the shoreline, owner had the police out and was ready to sue me for anything he could get. Sounds like that owner loves (d?) his boat and will at least say thanks though.

Ken.

[Figment]

WOW!!!!

The STEM failed before the stem fitting!!?!?!!!!

Whatever qualms I might have had about continuing to use 45year old bronze rigging components have evaporated.

[Jason K]

As far as liability goes, I think I'm OK. On the off chance he decides to sue (and I truly doubt it), he would have to prove that I damaged the boat. He'd have a tough time doing that as I've got it extremely well photo-documented (just under 100 photos) and I was demonstrably removing a hazard, not creating one. Plus, I did it with a number of witnesses, including a US District Court Judge.

The STEM failed before the stem fitting!!?!?!!!!

Unbelievable, isn't it? It peeled the foredeck back an easy two feet, separating the hull/deck joint in the process. The fitting failed on the stem, just above the uppermost bolt. It took a fair bit of the forepeak with it. You should see it from the v-berth. Another shot:




Another thing, the bilge in this boat was MUCH deeper than mine- it had to be two feet deeper. I suppose this is a feature of the later model boats, but it blew me away.

[Tim]

I'm sure that if the owner ever returns to claim his boat, he'll be thankful that you took the initiative to secure it.

Meanwhile, you've taken steps to prevent the boat from damaging other property.

Absolutely the right thing, and if society doesn't see it that way, then things are even worse off than I, with my general disgust at the state of things, think they are.

Another thing, the bilge in this boat was MUCH deeper than mine- it had to be two feet deeper. I suppose this is a feature of the later model boats, but it blew me away.

Yes: starting with hull #382, Pearson changed the mold and began installing internal ballast. Along with this, the depth of the bilge was increased to the depth of the keel, as the new tooling eliminated the need for the add-on "false keel" seen in the earlier boats.

I gather that the deep bilge was still an option, and that not every boat after #381 has the deep bilge. But most do, and every later boat I have been on does.

[kendall]

Mine has the deep bilge, and I've been looking at the possability of installing a water tank in it, though I'm not sure what effect it would have on trim, it seems to be nearly 3.5 feet from the sole down, and would take a nice sized tank, if it were easily accessable it would be great stowage.
I know that when I got the boat (full to sole) it took about 45 minutes to drain the bilge with a 3/4 inch siphon hose

I think a lot of the world has succumbed to a 'the world owes me' mentality, so it's made people who would ordinarily help out, have to rethink and walk away. I know that if my boat was drifting I'd be overjoyed if someone was nice enough to pull it into a dock and tie it up for me, and I wouldn't even think about lawsuits.

Ken.

[Figment]

ah, so the fitting did fail, just not at the forestay, where one generally assumes it will.

It was probably a collision-induced failure, then.

I echo the comments of others. Your actions were certainly right and prudent.

[windrose]

Jason, gooood on ya!

I know you probably don't want another boat but I am proud of you for taking the action to possibly find the old gal a new owner and at least secure her and make sure she doesn't get into more trouble.

The other one, in the pine trees, looked as if it were a well taken care of boat. Sad to see the gash in her side. :-(

Glad to hear you and #218 are on the up swing. Sending you warm regards.

Ang

[MikeD]

Many kudos Jason for getting your boat back into excellent condition in record time, giving us a website to follow your progress, and for rescuing the wayward Triton! And I'm sure the Triton's namesake has credited your account a good sum of karma chips as well. :)

[JonnyBoats]

I don't know about the special rules in a hurricane situation, but I can speak to normal situations. If you see a boat drifting in a channel (as this one ended up doing), you can call the Coast Guard and get it declared a hazard to navigation. If they do that and give you permission to tow the boat to a safe dock or slip then you are pretty much off the hook (assuming you don't loot the vessel etc.) Further if they declare it a hazard to navigation they will move the vessel themselves in the interest of public safety if you don't want to.

Another thing to consider if you see a vessel taking on water is that, assuming it has an engine, there is a good chance that it may eventually leak oil. An oil leak is clearly not good for the environment, and could cause the owner some big charges for cleanup efforts. Once again call the Coast Guard and if the give you permission you can pump out and secure the boat.

[dkall]

That's not to say you're interested in keeping the boat. Just that it give you an easy tool to give the boat back and a way to protect yourself incase they say you "did something" to my boat.

[Jason K]

Success!

I just got off the phone with owner after spending a fair amount of time tracking him down. He's a local doctor and sounded thrilled to find out she was floating.

He says he went out there a few times and couldn't find the boat. It's understandable as it was tucked in the boathouses and the areas from which it is visible were largely inaccessible (unless you weren't afraid to climb over and under precariously propped boats) until recently.

I'm going to meet him at the marina tomorrow afternoon to show him where the boat is and help him anyway I can. He's moved to a one bedroom apartment in Baton Rouge and will be coming in to see the boat.

It looks like it may be a somewhat happy ending. Even if he doesn't get her in sailing trim again, at least he'll know what happened to the boat and take off the things that matter. He has his detailed ship's log going back to 1974 (one binder) and a fantastic ship's clock and barometer aboard. It's time like these that the little things matter.

[Summersdawn]

I am glad you found him. Imagine owning a boat for 32 years, and then loosing it in a hurricane. It would almost be like losing an old friend. I hope he does get her in sailing condition.

[Allen]

It would be like losing an old friend...

Good on ya Jason, there should be more people like you in the world.

[MikeD]

Jason, there should be more people like you in the world.

Amen.

[Tim]

It's nice to hear that you found the owner, and that he's pleased! I'm sure he knows what a supreme effort you must have taken to track him down. A nice ending to another hurricane story.

[Jason K]

BTW, what happened with #594?

I met the owner (real nice guy) and showed him where I put his boat. He doesn't know what he should do. He was paid off by the insurance company, so technically the boat belongs to Progressive. He could buy it back from them and fix it up, or he could simply buy another boat. He wanted to know if the boat could be repaired for less than 10 grand. I said I doubted it, particularly at yard prices. He is mulling over his options. I told him that if he wanted to fix it, to let me know and I'd do what I could to help him. Or, if he simply lets Progressive haul it out, to let me know and I'd pay him to strip the boat of useful stuff (if it goes to Progressive it'll likely end up rotting in a yard or going to the chainsaw).

What would it take to repair a stem and the hull deck joint damage such as this boat has? Would any of you call this boat salvageble?

[bcooke]

Would any of you call this boat salvageble?

Do you include our Forum Moderator in that query? What isn't "salvagable"? Is it cost effective? Hmmm... I for one shouldn't be answering questions like that :-)

-Britton

[Matt B.]

What would it take to repair a stem and the hull deck joint damage such as this boat has? Would any of you call this boat salvageble?

$10k is pushing it even if he does the work himself, I would think. The rig damage alone, new sails, water in the boat probably means hidden damage and eletrical...

That said, if it were me, I'd do it. But then, I'm putting about $3000 into a salvage boat when ready-to-sail boats of the same class are selling for $2000-$4000, so I'm clearly insane anyway. <G>

[Tim]

BTW, what happened with #594?

I met the owner (real nice guy) and showed him where I put his boat. He doesn't know what he should do. He was paid off by the insurance company, so technically the boat belongs to Progressive. He could buy it back from them and fix it up, or he could simply buy another boat. He wanted to know if the boat could be repaired for less than 10 grand. I said I doubted it, particularly at yard prices. He is mulling over his options. I told him that if he wanted to fix it, to let me know and I'd do what I could to help him. Or, if he simply lets Progressive haul it out, to let me know and I'd pay him to strip the boat of useful stuff (if it goes to Progressive it'll likely end up rotting in a yard or going to the chainsaw).

What would it take to repair a stem and the hull deck joint damage such as this boat has? Would any of you call this boat salvageble?

She's salvageable, but not for what the owner received for his claim. There's nothing there that's irreparable, but new spars and rigging alone could eat up most of that $10K figure.

At least the "owner" isn't technically responsible for the boat anymore; the insurance company is in charge now. Most insurance companies will settle with the owner for salvage value when the boat is totaled, but he may have missed this opportunity when he accepted his check.

What will likely happen is that eventually, the insurance company will contract with an auction company to sell the boat, just like all those other hurricane salvage boats you see on Ebay and the like. If she doesn't sell, then she'll rot and/or be cut apart eventually.

Cost effective? No. Little in boats is. It depends how much this "owner" (and I put that in quotes since he really isn't anymore) loves this particular boat and wants to save her. If she's just a boat, then it's certainly not "worth" doing the repairs from his perspective. At most yard rates, $10,000 will get you nowhere, sadly.

One can't go and "strip the boat of useful stuff" now that she's owned by the insurance company. Tread very carefully here. As I said, the "owner" no longer owns his boat, since he accepted his total insurance claim; he transfered his ownership rights to them in return for the check for the total amount of his policy. He'll have to buy the boat for salvage value (which will vary case by case--sometimes it's nothing, but it's likely a small figure in any event) before he or anyone else can think of doing anything with the boat now.

[A30_John]

Jason's original post said:

Coincidentally, I heard just yesterday of a derilect Triton not too far from New Orleans. It has no portlights, no rudder, and very little hardware, but the rig is with the boat. What if I could put that rig on this Triton?

Indeed! Since the boat is now owned by the insurance company why not call them up and make an offer for whatever the boat is worth to you. At this point the original owner is now the past owner (with no rights to the boat), and the boat is nothing but a liability for the insurance co. since it will ultimately be responsible for hauling, disposal, etc.

If you are serious about having this boat, why not calculate the "out of pocket" expenses the insurance co. would have to front up to haul it and dispose of it (either by sale or demolition). Once you see how much this boat has yet to cost them for a very uncertain outcome, consider your bottom line and make an offer. The insurance company currently faces further loss over this boat, and if you can put a small amount of cash in their pocket and help them get rid of a headache they might go for it. This could be the best deal you'll ever get from an insurance company.

[Jason K]

One can't go and "strip the boat of useful stuff" now that she's owned by the insurance company. Tread very carefully here

I understand the premise behind what you're saying here Tim, and I do agree. However, the removal of parts from boats prior to the insurer picking them up is very standard practice in this region. And before you start talking about jumping off bridges along with everyone else, the slight delay in the determination of what will become of this boat is largely due with the fact that the "owner" is contacting Progressive to determine their intentions. I'm not going to cross any lines for a few portlights and a really cool barometer.

If you are serious about having this boat

I'm not. Not with all of the damage to the stem (particularly), the hull deck joint, and the half dozen or so holes through the deck. The scope of the repair is beyond what I'd like to undertake. I have one Triton already, which I like better than 594. If I could have a second at a very low cost in reasonable condition, I'd love it. However, it would have to at least approach cost effectiveness. I'd lose my shirt fixing this boat and I have little inclination to pick up the project, given its scale. I'd rather put the same effort into 218 and have a very nice Triton as a result.

My query about the boats salvageability was more concerned with the structural integrity of the boat. What does it take to repair a stem? Is it just more fiberglass or are more intensive efforts required?

[windrose]

Sounds like #594 was lost to Katrina. :-(