triatic stays

[JonnyBoats]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of having a triatic stay on a ketch?

[Figment]

As far as I know, the primary disadvantage is that failure of one mast doesn't necessarily take the other down with it. The advantage is the less complicated rig. Also, I think the extra shrouds sometimes can limit the travel of the mizzenboom.

I think LF Herreshoff was the one to discuss this most deeply in The Compleat Cruiser. I still hope to stumble across a copy of that one someday.

(I gotta know...) Why do you ask?

;)

(Edited to correct my bass-ackwards phrasing)

[Tim]

The triatic stay is the actually the one running from the masthead of the mizzen to the masthead of the mainmast. Therefore, failure of one mast, in a vessel so equipped, might well lead to pulling the other down with it. Keeping the two rigs separate seems perhaps a better option overall, depending on other specific circumstances.

I think one reason for a triatic stay is because it does eliminate the need for other perhaps awkward means of securing the mizzen forward. Otherwise, you often end up with forward-angled lower shrouds that might clutter up the cockpit, or might not provide the support needed. Triatics are perhaps the "easy" solution to this problem, but may not be the best overall. Other options include a single or double jumper strut on the leading edge of the mizzen, or a rigid strut running from the mizzen to the backstay, or probably a number of other solutions. Forward lowers and triatics seem to be the most common.

The triatic is also based in tradition, if you will, since schooners tend to always feature a triatic between the spars, as no other solution is generally available. Sometimes things become commonly used only because of reasons like this.

The bigger the mizzenmast, the more important this forward support becomes. Ketches, with their larger mizzens, tend to need more support, yawls less.

[heartofgold]

I also read somewhere that the rigs without a triatic stay cannot fly a mizzen staysail. Though I am not experienced with either a ketch rig or the sailing conditions under which one would fly a mizzen staysail, I believe that for tradewinds sailing, it may be one of the biggest advantages of the ketch rig. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if anyone out there has any experience with this rig, I would be courious to hear more opinions.

[Tim]

It seems that the mizzen staysail would tend to put a forward pressure on the mizzen, one that might require running backs (depending on the boat's configuration and whether a permanent mizzen backstay was fitted), rather than any sort of aft-leaning force that might require a triatic stay. The staysail pulls forward, not aft; forward pressure would, if anything, decrease any pressure on a triatic stay, so I can't see how one would be required to fly a mizzen staysail.

With little practical experience on multi-mast rigs, I look forward to testing some of these theories on my Seabreeze yawl in a few years when she's rebuilt. The mizzen staysail is a big plus on these boats.

For what it's worth, the mizzen on my partiticular Seabreeze is supported by a rigid strut that connects to the mainmast backstay. You can just see it in the photo below. Some other Seabreezes have triatic stays.

[JonnyBoats]

I think LF Herreshoff was the one to discuss this most deeply in The Compleat Cruiser. I still hope to stumble across a copy of that one someday.

I just re-read the book this week. Thank you for reminding me of it, it is one of my favorite books. Unfortunately I did not find anything about triatic stays in it.

(I gotta know...) Why do you ask?

I am helping a friend completely re-rig a Dreadnot 32 ketch (similar to a Westsail 32) that she wants to be bulletproof for world cursing. Originally the boat had wooden spars, which will be replaced with aluminum. Since this will be a non-trivial expense, we want to learn as much as possible before starting.

Another book I consulted was ?The Complete Rigger?s Apprentice? by Brion Toss. While a reasonably good book, it too said little about triatic stays.

So far I really haven?t been able to find much on this subject, and would love to learn more.

[Tim]

...bulletproof for world cursing...

Ah, a cursing [sic] ambassador, spreading ill will throughout our fine planet? How thick will the armor plating be? In some parts of the world that cursing will raise significant ire. hehe ;<)

Sorry. Had to do it.

I see no compelling reason for a triatic stay if other means of supporting the mizzen in a forward direction exist. It adds no real strength as a redundant piece of rigging, and does potentially interconnect the two spars, which might be of issue if one were to fall (particularly the mainmast).

I'd prefer myself, in an ideal world, that the two masts be supported entirely independent of each other. If you can't do this, use the triatic.

What does the spar manufacturer have to say about this?