Plastic Classic Forum

My Meridian has wooden spars. The boom is round and has a worm gear for reefing the mainsail by winding it around the boom. It's not that great a system - not as fast as slab reefing, and results in poor sail shape - but I can live with it. Trouble is, in an inept moment, I dropped the only winch handle for the worm drive, which plunked merrily into the sea. I can turn the boom by hand, but it's a painfully slow process.

I have some thoughts on how to adapt an old handle I have into a replacement (something perhaps better accomplished by a machinist). But, I also wonder if I should ditch the roller system and adapt for slab reefing? If so, how? Somehow I think mounting a cheek block may be a challenge - and require fully dismantling and reassembling the boom. I also wonder if I will need to somehow seize the worm. Adapting an old winch handle may prove to be the easier course.

Any opinions?

This is an aside, but I thought you might be interested to know that the Meridian also came with a rectangular wooden boom that did not use roller reefing. Presumably the roller boom was an "upgrade" (at the time).

Interesting - given how robust the bronze mechanism is, I can imagine that it wasn't a cheap option!

I have slab reefing on my round wood roller boom.

The previous owner mounted a cheek block and a bail on the aft end.

Then mounted a winch about 2 feet back from the tack, a clam cleat and a regular cleat.

There are 2 pads mounted for the winch. and it is through bolted.

Also mounted 2 tack hooks fabricated from stainless steel.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. ... I too have a roller boom system on the Selden rig that I'm installing on my Passage 24. The rig was originally built for a Albin Vega 27. The previous owner also installed blocks on the sides of the boom and converted it to slab reefing. I now have to decide which way i want to go ... Roller or Slab ... so, i shall be watching all replies to this thread with great interest..

Convert to slab (aka "jiffy") reefing. There's a reason you don't see roller boom reefing anymore, except on older boats originally so fitted.

In terms of fixing your rotating boom, I'd need to know more (and see more) about the mechanism to have any hope of offering an opinion. But you'd probably need to fix it against movement if you converted.

Andiamo's boom has not been fixed in any way.

I occasionally have to realign it, but maybe only a half an inch or so. I jiggle it to take the load off the worm gear and it rotates easily with just my fingers. Once loaded it WILL NOT TURN.

It is a worm gear so it really doesn't want to turn. Think about the roller reefing...you don't lock that down once you crank it in and the slab reefing puts WAY less rotational force on the boom. Especially if you balance the outhaul and reefing load by running the load from a turning block to the clew then back down to the opposite side of the boom.

All the outhaul gear, screw jack, outhaul "car", etc has been removed. Just the frame and end cap remains. The outhaul is run off the bail pictured below and a second turning block attached tot he boom.


Click links to super size...

You can see the outhaul/reefing winch. There is a cleat ahead of the winch and a clam cleat aft the winch. To reef I drop the outhaul into the clam so I can unload the winch for reefing. Since main halyard and reef line are right there it is a one man job.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Okk_fb7rTUE/T ... G_2359.JPG


This is the outhaul end point. With the funky zipfurl the reefing line is actually terminated to a bowline around the boom and slides forward as you put away the sail. If I didn't have a zip furl I would have a second bail for the reef point. Turning block on the other side. Reef line runs through SS cringle at reef clew. Splits load into to points and gives you mechanical advantage. The horizontal line above it is the topping lift run forward to the port side about 6 feet.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Okk_fb7rTUE/T ... G_0110.JPG


Winch and outhaul line. The clam cleat is directly under the line as it feeds the winch. Just push down and ease the winch and it is secured. I don't use the clam cleat for anything other than securing the outhaul while reefed. The horned cleat forward of the winch is the one I put working load on and that only keeps the load on the winch drum. The line around the boom is actually the terminated reefing line.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Okk_fb7rTUE/T ... G_0135.jpg

Weatherbird also has a round wooden boom with the roller gear still present (lovely old stainless stuff) at the front, and like Rick's boom on Andiamo, turning is a minor issue which doesn't happen often. That said, being a bit fussy, I used a bit of 1/8" line to snug down the mechanism - it just holds what used to be where you'd attach a handle from turning. After putting that on I never had to realign the boom again.

Weatherbird's system was the same as Rick describes: reefing line ties around boom, goes through cringle on the leech, through a turning block on the boom, up to a small winch and then a cleat. The biggest hassle with it was keeping the lines tidy when they weren't in use - I used some small stuff tied around the boom and the lines - an improvement would have been to use either bails or fairleads.

I'll put in my vote for slab over roller any day - faster, easier on the sail, and much better sail shape.

My Pageant has a roller reefing main & I've played with it a bit & the idea looks good. I know they are prone to failure at the gooseneck and have, for good reason, fallen out of fashion, but I have to chuckle when I hear them rejected due to their producing a bad sail shape. How many people with an equally bad setting roller reefing jib won't have a roller reefing main?

I agree that roller furling jibs tend to look pretty bad as they furl - which is why my usual strategy is to reef the main progressively until it's gone, then start to roll the jib if I still have too much sail up. In the worst conditions I was out in on Weatherbird I ended up with a double-reefed main and essentially no jib (I left about 3' out to provide some balance to the boat, but wasn't getting any drive from it).

I have seen a few well made jibs with nicely padded luffs that roll up a little bit without getting too awful to look at, but there is no question that a furled jib is not a pretty sight!

Thanks, all. This has been very helpful - good food for thought. I think I'll probably convert to slab. I'm thinking about terminating the reefing line near the gooseneck with a bronze tubular jam cleats.

https://shop.woodenboat.org/images/PROD ... av1089.jpg

My thinking is (1) that letting out the line will just require releasing the jam, and the line will otherwise stay put with a stopper knot, ready for the next time it's needed, and (2) being fastened on a horizontal axis, it should be a cleaner installation than a cam cleat, given the round boom (of course the same would be true of an ordinary cleat.

If the reefing line doesn't stay flush enough to the boom when not under strain, I could add a small lead or two.

Unless it was a VERY small boat I would not trust the jam cleat.

The loading will be quite high!!

Thanks for the caution, Ric. I'm sure you're right - functionality certainly trumps aesthetics. I've got to give the boom a thorough inspection to see how best to appropriately ground the hardware - I've got a few months, the boat gets hauled Monday.

Ric in Richmond wrote:Unless it was a VERY small boat I would not trust the jam cleat.

The loading will be quite high!!

Ric, my Triton106 comes with tubular jam cleats for reefing as well. I still do not know if this is a better setup than a standard cleat but they are fast to cleat off and the reefing line stays on the boom when it is not reefed. I have never had any problems with it the last 10 years sailing on SF Bay.

Jeremy, appears you already decided to convert to slab reefing. I was going to say that I thought the "roller reefing" vs. "slab reefing" debate has been over for many years except for a very small roller reefing devotees. Like gas vs. diesel or wooden vs. fiberglass or gaff vs. bermuda debates there will always be a few dedicated minorities on the other side of the debate.

As they say, 'What goes around comes around.'

Why are any of the current versions of roller reefing in the boom any better than the stuff our old boats had? Surely winding inside a cover and onto a smaller mandrel doesn't make an improvement.

Quetzal, 1970 NE 38, was born with roller furling and the conversion to slab reefing was nothing more than adding the blocks, rope jam cleats and a winch. The old winder is still there and never moves; I still have the crank.

If I hadn't dumped the darned handle overboard, I'd probably keep the current system. If I'm taking a reef, sail shape is not high on my priorities. Wouldn't the flatter shape that comes of roller furling only further depower the rig, after all?

But the choice between fabricating a handle and rigging the hardware for slab reefing is different matter. Converting to slab seems the easier course. Anyway, I'm certainly taking it all under advisement - there are only so many projects I can tackle in one winter!

Incidentally, being scheduled for a haul out in Marblehead tomorrow, I set off from Boston Harbor bright and early to beat the gale expected this afternoon. I hand rolled a reef, but the weather came up earlier than expected, and with what I'd reckon was a force 6 and worse to come, something up to 10 foot seas, and air temp at a chilly 40 or so, we decided to turn back. It was a quick trip back, sailing with the tide, well heeled, on a beam reach, and with a season's worth of growth on the hull, we hit 7.8 knots (theoretical hull speed based on the waterline is something like 5.6). It made for quite an exciting morning.

[Edited for clarification]

Jeremy wrote:If I hadn't dumped the darned handle overboard, I'd probably keep the current system.


[Edited for clarification]

I'll see if I have the handle next time I am aboard. Is it about a 2/8ths - 1/2" shaft with a pin crossways that turns the worm gear?

If I still have it you can have it...I will never use it again...

Like Ric In Richmond, I have the original roller reefing mechanism and other than occasionally having to give it a few twists to straighten it out, it hasn't given me any problems. I don't see any reason to fix it in place, other than to spend money. The boom is now setup with slab/jiffy reefing (is there a difference?) consisting of 2 cheek blocks and a double rope clutch. Originally, I had 2 jam cleats located on the forward end of the boom to take up tension on each of the reef points, but those tended to slip so I replace them both with a double rope clutch and that works well. The setup is quite simple and very effective. My sail shape stays the way it should (only smaller). The entire reefing operation can be done in 30 seconds or so (I leave the reefing lines in all the time so I can do it at a moments notice). The only downside is that you have to be up on the cabintop to do it and since your reefing, conditions are usually not ideal by the time you do it.

Jeremy wrote:If I hadn't dumped the darned handle overboard, I'd probably keep the current system. If I'm taking a reef, sail shape is not high on my priorities. Wouldn't the flatter shape that comes of roller furling only further depower the rig, after all?...

You get a fuller shape with roller reefing, not a flatter one. I recently heard of an old trick to improve the shape, though, which is to throw an old jacket or sweater into the belly of the sail as you start to roll it up.

I want good sail shape when I'm reefed, for better power and control. I think you want things to work better, not sloppier, when the wind kicks up, don't you? To put it another way, for less power, you want to do this with a deeper reef or a flatter sail.

If it's like mine, making a new crank handle is quite easy - in fact, the previous owner of my boat had at least one made. It's basically a piece of about 3/8" or 1/2" mild steel rod with two bends in it, with an old deep-well socket welded on the end, with a slot cut across the end to engage the pins on the crank shaft.

I've also been pondering the possibility of switching to slab reefing - I have yet to use the roller reefing, because I have yet to be out in conditions that seemed to merit reefing. I've had the boat only a couple months.

Not to side with slab or roller reefing, but making a replacement handle. I think my Ensign has a hex nut/socket arrangement. One could just attach a bolt head thru a piece of appropriately shaped piece of flat ss and a handle on the other end. Might not look like a machinist carved it out of titanium but it otta spin that worm gear.

If I had to replace one I would use a speed handle with the appropriate socket on it. Requires 2 hands to operate, though.
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/skt40181.html

Dave.

If you get a hold of an older copy of Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail," he does extol the virtues of the roller reefing main-- BUT -- he does note that it is far more effective if you install battens on the end of the boom to take up the extra sail material as you roll it in. For you guys with a wooden boom, it should be a piece of cake!