Plastic Classic Forum

I have stuck valves in the rear two cylinders.
Of course a few shots of mystery oil will probably do the trick, but the engine is 50 years old, and probably could do with a valve job.

Pulling the engine is SO much easier with the rig up.

It's a noon high tide, and I have relatively shallow draft, so I'll likely be the first boat hauled in the morning.
It takes about two hours to haul the rest of the boats, then the masts start coming down.

If I start turning wrenches as soon as the boat is blocked, can I have the engine down on the ground before my turn comes for the mast crane?

Place yer bets!

(yes, the real fun will come in the spring, when I need to re-install the engine in the same span of time between the stepping of the mast and the splashing of the boat)

Absolutely. I'll take that bet.

I wasn't timing it, but I'd say it took about two or three hours to get the A-4 out of my Alberg 30.

That was starting with it all hooked up, unhooking and labeling everything (i.e. blue tape and Sharpie on the wires and hoses), and lifting it off the beds and swinging it out onto the cabin sole (I used the 4 x 4 across the companionway top since my rig was down and I never intended to take the engine all the way out of the boat).

I had a few things going for me: The fasteners that went through the mounts were easy to loosen, and because they were bolts/nuts that went through a flanged bed, I could take them right out and then not have any studs to have to hump the engine over. Also, knowing I'd be replacing hoses, I just sliced through them all instead of loosening clamps and etc. But you could probably get prep work done before "the day," right? (Or, when is the day? Today?)

I vote to go for it! Plus, it's so nice to be able to get in under there and clean :)

Edited to add: Oh wait, why guess? I was taking photos with my digital camera :)

Okay, first photo, when I was just kind of looking things over and labeling, was taken at 11:12 a.m.
Last photo, of the gaping maw after the engine was completely out, was taken at 2:58 p.m.

So more like a solid 3 -4 hours, probably, from the time my bud arrived -- but then we were not even trying to rush, and were making decisions about this-and-that as we went along (which we could have done ahead of time if there had been a rush).

11:12 a.m.


2:01 p.m.


2:34 p.m.


2:58 p.m.


Rachel

I vaguely recall, after 10+ years, that it took me about 4 hours to pull the A4 out of our old M27. I used the mainsheet and the boom vang, and swung the thing over the side onto a modified boat trailer using the boom and mainsheet. It was easier and faster on the way back in since I'd modified the galley casework for better access.

I had, the year previous to my engine's R&R for upper-end work, sticking valves. The skinny fellow (I could never have done it!) at Marine Engines Unlimited in Galesville MD, spent an hour or so accessing the valve stems through the galley undersink door and the two valve gallery covers, and cleaned the stems with solvent. The engine went another year before I pulled it to bring it to Galesville.

I am envious of those of you who can pull an engine in 3-4 hours. Removing my 40-year-old 4-107 took me two full days.

Ah, but you've got all the stunningly beautiful joinerwork to work around. We should all have such problems ;)

Boy that's a beautiful boat!

Rachel

Well, thank you.

If only we could see more.....

;)

R.

Figment,

I'm rooting for you, but there's too little info on the horse to place a bet (It'll certainly keep you from getting bored waiting in line!)

For the uninitiated, is there enough clearance to swing your engine out over the cockpit/coaming using the boom? Or are you planning to have the crane operator pick it up from the cockpit before unstepping your mast?

Good luck!

David

Fig,

I will join Tim. The bet is for a Frozen Mudslide spring Off Soundings at the Oar.

Cheers
Dennis

Let's see...put down the imponderables of access for, say, 3 hours. Rig the lift and suspension scheme - 30 minutes.

Disconnect engine - 15 minutes: Wires - engine ground, power to the starter, starter solenoid, oil pressure switch wire, distributor (not with electronic ignition which would be, I think, one more), electric fuel pump wire if equipped, 2 (or three?) alternator wires; fuel line; choke and throttle cables; shifter pin; exhaust manifold - two bolts; propeller shaft flange - four bolts; engine bed - four bolts.

Lift it up and over the side: 15 minutes.

Voila! 4 hours!

Figment can do it, no problem! I did not have much concern for the casework in Vela; I dismantled it with a Sawzall (judiciously, of course) and reassembled/reconstituted it for easier routine maintenance removal.

Quetzalsailor wrote: I did not have much concern for the casework in Vela; I dismantled it with a Sawzall (judiciously, of course) and reassembled/reconstituted it for easier routine maintenance removal.

Now there's a YouTube video I would watch!

R.

Let's bear in mind that the engine will be HOT when this process begins.

oh there is absolutely enough room to swing overboard and let it go to ground
(but thank you for bringing that up, you've just reminded me of why I want to use the mainsheet tackle instead of the vang tackle)

I hope you're allowing time to take a picture or two. I'd love to see how you swing 300 lbs of iron. Do you use the topping lift?

Obviously, various boats have various geometries for sheet and vang mountings, clear space down through the companionway, how much the engine is tucked under the cockpit. What I describe below would have to be rigged very differently on our NE 38; at the very least, I'd have to add something to the sole to protect it and to spread the load, and I'd have to rig the lifting tackles on slings over the boom rather than use the fittings provided.

Our Morgan 27 was such that I could use the mainsheet and the vang together. Either is strong enough for the load. Both had their bottom blocks integral with jam cleats. I used multiple turns of light guage line to affix the shackles to the engine lift ring. The two angles they made together enabled me to lift the engine off the beds with the mainsheet, and ooch it forward while suspended by alternately slacking and snugging the two tackles. Really very easy and controllable. I redeployed the main halyard to the aft end of the boom; the topping lift is insufficient, in my view.

An A4 weighs about 315lbs, so any couple of adults used as baggage can be used to load your rig sufficiently to see whether it's really easy enough to lift the dead weight of the engine. And, it really ought to be easy for you, with enough mechanical advantage, and with places to stand to pull the lines. You'll want to reserve your strength to do what the rig won't or can't, like ease the beast sideways or keep it from swinging. A simple arrangement of multiple turns of light guage line can be deployed anywhere along the boom to affix your lifting tackles' upper end.

The worst problem was that the aft end of the transmission strongly desired to snag the countertop and bridge deck, but a draped towel kept damage to a minimum. I lifted the engine up, forward, up, and aft onto the bridge deck using the pair of tackles. I then rerigged the mainsheet to do the lowering away solo. Piece of cake.

Fig, When is the big day? Or was it today in the pouring rain and driving wind.

If it is not next Saturday morning, and you need a hand.... let me know.

Today was haulout day. (It's not the end of the season, it's the beginning of the off-season!)

I was out and blocked around 09:30. I think the engine was down arouind 11:00.
By noon I had dismounted the starter, alternator, water pump, and manifold and heaved the lot into the jeep.
No pita nuts or bolts, no stray tools. Almost as though I've had far too much practice at this.

So that's the good news. The bad news is that the problems extend beyond a few stuck valves. Water in the oil, and all three manifold bolts are down to about 3 or 4 threads.
Break Out Another Thousand.

Damn - I lost the bet.

I thought the bet was that he could do it.

Good going, Figment! Sorry to hear about your engine woes, but at least you'll be able to get them sorted out now, without the frustration and contortions required with it installed.

Rachel

Congratulations- I guess it is like painting- all in the preparation.

I've always been in awe of engine removal ever since I helped a school friend lift his VW Bug up and over the engine he was removing.

Good luck with the repairs. I'm sure you'll be happy you did it next season.

David

That's ok. I'll still let him buy me a mudslide.

speaking of which.... kahlua has a new thing now called "Kahlua Coffee Cream". Basically it already has the bailey's included. Just add vodka for lazy man's mudslide. mmmmmmm.

Also, apologies for the lack of photodocumentation. I had a killer headache all day, wasn't in the mood for fussing with a camera.
Any specific questions will be answered, however.

Without the Spring OS, when shall I collect said Mudslide??

All's well that ends well.
Replacement engine obtained, rehabbed, and installed on launch day.
A bit of tuning here and there, today was the first real run.
Apart from some shaft vibration (the late-model A4 sits a good 3/8" higher than the early-model), it runs like a champ.

The river cruise even turned into a bit of strong breeze sailing.
It's a good day on the boat.

Fig,

Glad to hear that all worked out well AND that you got your first sail in already. Although it does sound a bit like you have had practice.

Officially, the bet was for a Frozen M-slide Spring OS at the Oar..... I will be there.....

Will you settle for the Frozen Mudslide on Fishers? Can't remember the name of the bar but when you sail up to visit Geordie and Sarah, Mary
and I will sail over to catch up and make good on the bet.

How long if a sail is that for you?

the Pequot!

Branford to Fisher's is a moderate day's sail. The return trip is usually a long day against the summer southwesterly.

I have a loose plan/thought to bring the boat down there 4th of july weekend or the one after, and then leave it on JollyMon mooring for a couple of weekends in which other events prevent sailing (S&G need a boat on the mooring for minimum number of days anyway) and then bring it back.

At some point amid all of that, I'm sure we can stumble into each other.

Fig,

Sounds great.

The Pequot it is.... Some time around the 4th.

A4 Question. I can buy a 1985 used A4 out of a Catalina , this is the last year for this engine and Catalina was the last company to install these engines. The question is , is this worth replacing the A4 in 67 triton or am I just replacing an obsolete engine with another? The Triton engine is partialy disassembled , has the head off for years and is rusted and most likely seized. The Cat engine is "supposedly" running engine with all hardware and controls and the price is $500.00. Are parts still available for these engines and easily found? I'm assuming it would be a drop in installation and that is what appeals to me versus using a Yanmar 2QM15 engine that I have which is also an obsolete as well.. Thanks

Running or not, for $500 I'd grab that catalina engine. Quickly.

Thanks Glenn , Very impressive web site and they make parts seem readily available. They are reproducing blocks and cylinder heads. guess they are not ready to give up on the A4.
Well, I went ahead and traded for the A4 which includes all attaching pieces shaft , panel ,controls, tank, etc. I traded a very large project Ariel for it. Now I have a wealth of Ariel parts to get rid of!

I love my Atomic 4. Great little engine.

You can see my long and bloody engine overhaul thread here, complete with tons of full color photos.

The actual removal of the engine from the boat is shown on page 3 of the thread; the full-bore teardown to every last nut and bolt starts on page 4.

I just got it running again about 2 weeks ago. Now I need to finish the work inside the boat to get it ready to have the engine dropped back in. I hope to have the engine in, hooked up and rolling before the end of this month, so I don't have pay the yard fee for August! I want the boat back in the water by the end of July.

Then I can work on all the interior woodwork and paint stuff while she's in the slip in the marina - which I already paid for last year, but used only 3 months of!