The perfect rig, what is your preference?

[suntreader]

Here's the deal. My Islander 32 was an insurance salvage from Hurricane Charlie. The boat was in sound structural shape and had some nice gear, but the big missing item was the rig, which was lost in the storm. There remains about six feet of the base of the mast (wood), the boom with roller reefing gooseneck, a ProFurl jib furling drum with a bent up extrusion, two Lewmar 44 self tailers, 2 Lewmar single speed winches without self tailing, and a three foot bow sprint that doesn't need to go back on.

I don't see any real reason to put back on exactly the same rig that was original, a pretty basic mast head sloop rig. I would like to keep the mast step in the same place. That is about the only requirement and even that is negotiable.

So, here is what is on my mind:

Spars: Reuse the old wood boom and gooseneck to save some money (and I like the look of the wood) but not use the reefing gear. Alloy spar with internal halyards, somewhat taller than the original rig. Replace the pole sprint with stainless pipe platform, about three feet long.

Main: Loosefooted, high aspect ratio with tons of roach, full battens, three reef points.

Headsails: Solent rig with blade jib at stem head and big reaching/downwind sail on furler at end of sprint (I don't know the name for the big down/reach sails this week; blooper? Code 0? Asymmetrical? Cruising Chute?)

Sometimes when I've had too much to drink I start picturing a little mizzen mast and a mizzen staysail, but we all know that is just crazy right?

If you were designing your ideal fast cruising rig with no cares for rating rules; ease of handling and cost as considerations; what would you put on the boat?

Dave

[Tim]

If you were designing your ideal fast cruising rig with no cares for rating rules; ease of handling and cost as considerations; what would you put on the boat?

Here's my ideal (still under development and not engineered to date), which sounds close to what you've described:

Tall main spar with double-headed rig: masthead outer headstay for a large sail meant for lighter air beating and offwind use in all reasonable and normally encountered wind strengths (15 +/-) Ultimate weight and design of outer headsail depends on many factors, yet to be determined. Depending on the current setup and the boat in question, the outer stay may require a bowsprit in order to extend the rig properly.

Inner headstay for a smaller headsail for when the wind pipes up; larger than a true staysail, but also usable in conjunction with the larger sail if desired or applicable. Both headsails on roller furling, of course.

If the boat's design cried out for it, a nice mizzen mast for looks, antenna mounting, and occasional use of a mizzen staysail. But not every boat should have a mizzen stuck on it. My next boat happens to be a yawl rig, so she will stay a yawl.

Beware of making significant rig changes without consulting a designer. Taller spars and huge roaches may not be the best thing for an old boat, so don't make these changes in a vacuum.

[bcooke]

My short answer would be whatever the designer initially specified for the boat. She/He knows a lot more about the technical aspects of the boat than I ever will and they probably chose the rig for a reason. Hopefully they didn't chose to make a yawl rig simply because it looks cool and would sell more boats but sometimes that is probably the case.

So, here is what is on my mind:...

I would say your thoughts sound pretty good to me. I don't know how much 'tons of roach' really help performance wise. I had my sails checked out last year and had the sailmaker add a third reefing point to the main just for the fun of it. $150 and I might use it once and be glad I had it.

Personally, I like cutter rigsn but I learned something last year. What differentiates a cutter from a sloop is not the headsails but the position of the main mast in relation to the bow. I hadn't realized that before. The cutter mast is further aft. Since you don't plan on moving the mast (and I don't blame you) then I think keeping the boat sloop rigged is the right way to go.

Both headsails on roller furling, of course.

Oh, but of course!

Mizzens look good but they add complication and little performance I believe. I would only like a mizzen as a 'riding sail' at anchor.

A double headsail sloop. That is what I would do.

Triple might look cool though...

-Britton

[Rachel]

Sometimes when I've had too much to drink I start picturing a little mizzen mast and a mizzen staysail, but we all know that is just crazy right?

Everyone except "Robert the Gray" who adds one as a matter of course (and does a great job of it) ;<)

Rachel

[Robert The Gray]

Is this the mkII or the older islander? the older islander looks like it could take a mizzen but the mkII is a fin keel/spade rudder and I am not sure if it would handle the pressure that far aft. The additional mast will add probably $1500 in materials with all the eventual sails and running rigging. I have been an eccentric designer for a long time but I just modified the stock yawl triton plan. There is nothing wrong with a sloop. If you sail with other people you can always fly the spinny. I like to single hand so the yawl gives me a lot of off wind sail area that I can set, trim, and douse, by my self.

If you sail in a high prevailing wind area the blade sounds good but the larger sail on the roller on a sprit puts a lot of windage in front of your high wind sail. When beating into 30 knots having that sail out there on the furler would adversely effect the trim quite a bit. put a 100% on a furler that when rolled up a bit will take you into the wind in 30 knots, then have an off wind assym sail that you set and douse from the sprit, this assym sail should go up to a close reach in winds to light for the 100% and down to a deep broad reach in higher winds.

I think the furler sail should be at the stem, the sprit sail be a downwindish sail, and size the furling sail to being able to beat up wind in your highest local breeze. We have quite a few people with 130 % on their furlers and there are weeks at a time when they are overpowered and forced to stay in the lees of the islands. If you sail where these winds only happen during storms the put the big sail on the furler. just my 2 cents.

r.

ps do what ever you can to begin sailing as soon as you can, get the main mast and stays set up then decide on the other sails. Boats can get discouraged when they are not sailing, then they get dirty and things break for no apparent reason.

[Bluenose]

I think if I was going to modify the rig I would would go up instead of out. I like the idea of a taller mast then some older boats came with. The high aspect ratio is nice, but what I like is having my cruising sail area without needing overlap. So if the old rig needed say, a 150% to go in 8-12 kts I say raise the mast until the working sail area matches the old main plus the 150. I might also go with the third reef point. Now you would have any easy to use rig in say anything over 8 kts. As the wind picks up you just reef. I wouldn't put the working jib on a furler because I don't think I would need it and I like having the flexibility of a hanked on sail. I also like to have as little windage on the mooring as possible.

For the light stuff a huge 150% to 180% mast head code zero or Doyle UPS on a removable furler as far forward as you can get. The tall mast will help here as well. If things get a bit wild for all that sail area reel it in. Time to tack, reel it in. I like the removable furler because in 30 kts of wind I would rather have it below deck.

I do have to admit that I am fond of sail area.

[suntreader]

The boat is a MK1 Islander 32, basically looks like a slightly larger Triton. As far as I know they were never built as yawls, but they come from the era when many boats were offered as either and it looks like one would fit. Probably not going to happen, just a thought.

Nice to see that everyone basically agrees that the double headsail sloop is the way to go. The boat is definitely a sloop, the mast is much further forward than amidship. I have read that these boats had weather helm problems, which I'm presuming is the reason for the three foot bow sprint that was on the boat.

As far as doing what the designer had intended, I generally agree with this statement, but in this case the original designer was the builder (Joseph McGlasson) and there have been a advances in rig design since the '60s (at least stylistically, and I'm not above going for a certain 'look.')

The SA/Disp ratio is about 16.5 or so, which isn't bad, 476 sq ft of sail on about 10,000lbs displacement.

The boat will be on the Gulf coast of Florida and sailing range will be down to the Keys, Bahamas, and up the Gulf Coast, so there is a lot of light air. The third reef should eliminate the need for a trisail. Having enough sail is more of a problem than having too much most of the time.

I've seen so many big baggy genoas flopping around on furhlers, or partially rolled up and not really working that I wanted to avoid the one-size-fits-all headsail. Three would be great, a blade, genoa, and big chute, but thats an awful lot of gear on a 32 foot boat. Splitting the headsails into an upwind 100% blade, and an off the wind/down wind big genoa/chute seemed like it would offer good combinations for all conditions.

I really like the idea of trying to match the original rigs area by going up and shifting the area difference between a 130 and 100 to the main.

Dave

This isn't a great scan, but here is a picture of the rig from the original brochure:

[keelbolts]

How 'bout a gaff cutter? The bowsprit and increased sail area forward should reduce your weather-helm and the gaff main will give you much more power in light airs. Contrary to popular belief, a gaff main will take you upwind almost as good as a jib-headed main. Further, it will kick butt going down wind. You will have a shorter mast, but can run a topsail if you really want the sail area. I've sailed on a boat with a gaff larger than most of our booms and I was uncomfotable having a spar of that size aloft and out of my control, but a boat of your size would have a gaff of a more manageable size.

[Robert The Gray]

keel,

the gaff rig works on a shorter stiffer mast with running back stays. The single central back stay of a marconi rig really fouls the gaff.

r

[keelbolts]

So put on some runners. I have them on Favona and they're not a problem. Also, they help keep your headsail's luff straight and provide a backup support for your mast, should you loose a shroud.