CONDUIT IN THE MAST

[Scout]

Scout is getting tons of work done. One of the things is rewiring the mast. Our halyards are external. Do we really need a conduit? Is the only reason for conduit only to minimize the noise?

[Figment]

One could argue that the wiring is less prone to failure when it's not permitted to flop around freely within the mast, but that's really a long long term concern. The immediate benefit is the noise, and that's not a trivial benefit.

The Zip-tie trick has been in use long enough now that I think it could almost be considered a "standard alternative" to conduit, but the longevity of this depends much upon the quality of those zipties (difficult to ascertain) and upon how closely the ties are spaced (entirely within your control).

The downside of the ziptie method is that it's rather difficult to reeve new wiring through the mast later on, if the need should arise.

[jpmathieu]

Do we really need a conduit? Is the only reason for conduit only to minimize the noise?

Whatever you do, DO NOT do what the PO of my boat did.

When I bought my boat back, (yes your reading that right) someone made the determination to drill holes in the mast and fill it with great stuff (or some other expandable foam). It definitely quieted down things however they also removed the masthead VHF antenna, which is now impossible to replace, and now I have a bad wire running to my masthead light, that I cannot replace, and I can never install a windspeed, (which was on my to do list)

With that story said, I wish I had an internal conduit in the mast.

I hope this info is useful especially if anyone is thinking of foaming their mast.

[dasein668]

It definitely quieted down things however they also removed the masthead VHF antenna, which is now impossible to replace, and now I have a bad wire running to my masthead light, that I cannot replace, and I can never install a windspeed, (which was on my to do list)

Oof!

While it's definitely less than ideal, why not run an external conduit up your mast? At least you could run new wires to the masthead!

[jpmathieu]

Oof!

Well said! Thats what I believe I said to myself when I first noticed the holes in the mast.

While it's definitely less than ideal, why not run an external conduit up your mast? At least you could run new wires to the masthead!

I have not thought about that as a solution.

I hope this is helping Scout.

(sorry for the double post earlier, It goes to show you shouldn't play on the computer while your working(or trying to).)

[bcooke]

Is the only reason for conduit only to minimize the noise?

Definitely reason enough. I had several wires loose in the mast and the constant clanging about drove me crazy. I don't think my neighbors were too thrilled either.

-Britton

[David VanDenburgh]

A couple seasons ago I decided to try securing the mast wires using slugs in the internal tracks in Ariel's mast. The idea was to secure the mast wires every two feet or so to a slug, then, using a messenger line, haul the wires to the masthead. I still contend it was a great idea in theory, however, time and Fate were against me and I was forced to come up with an alternative when the slugs I'd ordered didn't fit and the mast had to be stepped.

My solution was to buy enough plastic coated cable of the right diameter to use as a sort of boltrope. I fed the cable into the groove at the foot of the mast and attached my wires every couple of feet to the boltrope with tape. After feeding about 8 or 10 feet of cable into the groove, the task became a two person operation as one person pulled on the messenger line at the masthead and the other taped and fed the cable into the track. Once the wires were in place, I relieved the tension on the electrical wires by looping the cable around a bushing at the masthead and seizing it.

I don't think this solution will last as long as the slug idea, but the wires have been silent for at least two seasons now - and hopefully many more to come!

All that said, your mast may not have a similar internal track or groove. If it does, this may be just the trick.

Here's a pic of the mast cross-section for reference.


Prior to all this, I considered the conduit route but did not like the idea of drilling holes in my mast. As much as possible my motto is "Do no harm." And drilling holes in the mast seemed like a risk - no matter how small.

David

[catamount]

...someone made the determination to drill holes in the mast and fill it with great stuff (or some other expandable foam). It definitely quieted down things however they also removed the masthead VHF antenna, which is now impossible to replace, and now I have a bad wire running to my masthead light, that I cannot replace, and I can never install a windspeed, (which was on my to do list)

I never thought of Great Stuff as having all that much "structural" integrity. If you have any wires foamed in the mast now, maybe you could use them to pull other, new wires through the foam -- a lot of yanking, with a back-and-forth sawing motion? Maybe you pull some more things through that foam.

Alternatively, set up an electrical current through one of the existing wires, with enough amperage so that the wire heats up and melts the foam around it, creating a conduit in the foam. This would need some monitoring, obviously!

What's the spacing of the holes through which the foam was injected? Could you use a stiff wire to dig out a channel through foam between successive holes, thus creating a conduit for your wires?

Just some ideas....

Tim A.

[jpmathieu]

If you have any wires foamed in the mast now, maybe you could use them to pull other, new wires through the foam -- a lot of yanking, with a back-and-forth sawing motion?

I am very hesitant to attempt that. The PO did have a very thin pull line through the mast to the masthead, but I think very little thought was actually put into the overall task. The pull line is about 1/16 inch nylon, even if I could pull it the channel is a useless size.

As far as pulling on the existing wires I am very hesitant to pull on those. when I had wired the mast 12 years ago I used very expensive, marine wiring, with a thick jacket. I ran a wire to the masthead for a tri color, then I ran new wire for the spreader lights, a wire for the steaming light, and a new cable for the masthead antenna. I am sure these wires are tangled inside the mast. I wouldn't want to pull on one and damage the rest.

What's the spacing of the holes through which the foam was injected? Could you use a stiff wire to dig out a channel through foam between successive holes, thus creating a conduit for your wires?

The PO drilled 1/2 holes every four feet up the entire lenght of my 30 foot mast, I was quite disturbed at the whole mess when I noticed it when the boat was being unloaded from its trip back from Maine.

At the moment I think I can live with it, but eventually I will need to address the matter. I'll leave it for another day.

So if anyone is thinking of foaming their mast, plan very very carefully, otherwise you'll be stuck with a mess like I have. Quiet mast, but a mess.

[catamount]

If you have any wires foamed in the mast now, maybe you could use them to pull other, new wires through the foam -- a lot of yanking, with a back-and-forth sawing motion?

...The PO did have a very thin pull line through the mast to the masthead, but I think very little thought was actually put into the overall task. The pull line is about 1/16 inch nylon, even if I could pull it the channel is a useless size.

As far as pulling on the existing wires I am very hesitant to pull on those. ... I wouldn't want to pull on one and damage the rest.

When I came up with the idea, my thinking was that at least one (if not all?) of the existing wires in the mast would be sacrificed to the cause of creating a reasonable conduit.

As for the messanger line, obviously it itself wouldn't create much of a channel, but it could potentially pull a larger cable, or some kind of cutter, through behind it.

Boy, what a pain in the neck!

Besides quieting the mast, does the foam have any floatation value if you were ever to take a knock down? (Could that have been part of the PO's thinking?)

Regards,

[Tim]

Whatever you do, DO NOT do what the PO of my boat did.

When I bought my boat back, (yes your reading that right) someone made the determination to drill holes in the mast and fill it with great stuff (or some other expandable foam).

What a terrible, ill-conceived idea. But I bet you have the quietest mast in the bay! Plus, maybe if you get dismasted the mast will float neatly alongside.

It's amazing what you see, or hear about, out there! Groan.

Oof!

Well said! Thats what I believe I said to myself when I first noticed the holes in the mast.

If that's really all you said, then you have remarkable restraint.

I can think of a lot of things I might have said...none of which are printable in a family atmosphere.

[Ric in Richmond]

I have got to believe that with a little ingenuity you could rig up a piece of metal tubing to some pvc conduit to act as a hole saw.

Maybe some nice sharp notches in the end. Then use it to cut through the foam, leaving the conduit in place behind the cutting head.

Or figure out what melts foam...I'd bet acetone or MEK would. Run the conduit hard against the foam. apply solvent and melt your way through it. (make sure it doesn't melt the conduit) Likely make a HUGE mess inside the mast.

Ok so what DOES one do to quiet internal wires on an external halyards on a mast without rewiring it (or taking it down)???

I know the real answer. take the mast down..

[jpmathieu]

Besides quieting the mast, does the foam have any floatation value if you were ever to take a knock down? (Could that have been part of the PO's thinking?)

Thats a good question. I don't think it would add any substantial floatation to the righting point or if the boat is sinking. I hope I never have to test that, thats for sure. The thought makes me shutter and what would I be doing out in weather like that, my wife would kill me.

Maybe some nice sharp notches in the end. Then use it to cut through the foam, leaving the conduit in place behind the cutting head.

Very interesting!

Sounds like a tunnel boring machine. I would be concerned with cutting the other wires.

Or figure out what melts foam...I'd bet acetone or MEK would. Run the conduit hard against the foam. apply solvent and melt your way through it. (make sure it doesn't melt the conduit) Likely make a HUGE mess inside the mast.

This is sounding like the most probable route, which no doubt would be very messy.

Ok so what DOES one do to quiet internal wires on an external halyards on a mast without rewiring it (or taking it down)???

Lucky my mast is down for the winter.

The whole concept of foaming the mast is reasonable, but the main point is you need to prepare and take into consideration that internal wires may fail or you might want to run something else up the mast when the pocketbook allows. A internal conduit for a future run would be smart. As I write this I am thinking that maybe all the wires run in a 1" PVC would work inside a foamed mast. The pvc conduit inside foam would certainly quiet loose wires inside. MAYBE thats the solution. 1" pvc conduit foamed into the mast, Quiet and accessable for future maintenance. This of course is for electrical wires, although I guess it could be easily applied to internal halyards.

[Figment]

Lots of dinghies and beach-cats rely upon the flotation of the mast to aid in capsize recovery, but I imagine that this would be a flyspeck in the pepper when applied to keelboats.

I don't think you'd even need a metal bit, a piece of conduit with hand-cut teeth should get through the foam just fine, and if you're doing it by hand I think you'd be able to sense when you've hit a wire before doing any damage.

[jpmathieu]

If I do make an attempt(or any attempt) I think I will need a 6 pack handy.

[Rachel]

Ok so what DOES one do to quiet internal wires on an external halyards on a mast without rewiring it (or taking it down)???

What I'm going to suggest is not a fabulous solution, but it might be applicable in certain situations. I used it on the Westsail that I wrote about in the boat moving thread. That boat had a mast conduit that looked something like a ~1" diameter sanitation hose (perhaps it was). It had broken off the mast in places and was banging around in the mast, which was terribly annoying either at anchor or when rolling in a swell.

Since we were out cruising, our options were a bit limited. We did actually try to re-rivet it, but we weren't successful (then). So, we took off a fitting just a bit above the "whapping" part (it could be reached from the roof of the coach house), dropped a messenger line down in and grabbed it at the bottom - the mast was tabernackled so we were able to reach in at the bottom. We obtained a large sponge and tied it to the line and pulled that halfway up, until it was jammed in where the conduit was flopping, then cut the strings. Not a permanent fix, probably, or necessarily the "right" one, but it lasted for the rest of the trip, and then some.

--- Rachel

[richfriend]

I would think that an appropriate application of heat would solve your problem quite nicely providing you are willing to possibly rewire all of your mast.

In a previous incarnation I built and flew many competition model sailplanes whose wings were foam core/carbon fiber/balsa or obechi (sp?) skinned. One of the methods for creating channels or passages for control cables or servo wires was to heat a steel rod and drop it into the core.

It would seem that you could do the same on a larger scale. Perhaps a piece of rebar or something similar, attached to an appropriate pole, and heated to a nice glowing red could be inserted into your mast. It would of course have a negative effect on existing wires if it comes close enough, but would leave a nice channel in the foam for you to pull through.

I do think that you would need the 6 pack, and a video of the process might be suitable for inclusion in a Monte Python movie, but in the end it might solve your problem.

Richard Friend

[jpmathieu]

VERY VERY INTERESTING.

After all this talk this is what I would like to do to the mast foaming criminal:

[fusto]

Scout is getting tons of work done. One of the things is rewiring the mast. Our halyards are external. Do we really need a conduit? Is the only reason for conduit only to minimize the noise?

Are you doing the mast work yourself?
Installing a conduit is really a pretty simple process.

At the boatyard I work for I've retrofitted a number of conduits in masts.
If I'm doing a complete re-wire or a new commission and there is no existing conduit, I will usually insist.

Just last week I put a conduit in a mast for a 1960's 35' Ericson.
Probably took me about 2 hours total labor.
Parts required:
~40' 1" schedule 20 pvc pipe
~30 pop rivets and pop rivet gun.
Couple of pieces of welding rod wire bent into a hook.
Some shiny new drill bits.

I usually pre-drill all my wire exits for radars and lights and such, then pop-rivet the conduit in the mast.

If you have the time, then its definitely a worthy upgrade for not too much scratch.

[Shoalcove]

Since I plan to run some new wire for the tri light, would you mind filling in a few more details on running the conduit? Do you pre drill the mast or drill as you go? How do you hold the conduit for rivetting? How about the steaming light wires?
As you can tell this is one of those projects that I just don't know how best to deal with. I'd appreciate any enlightenment you can provide.
Best regards,
David

[jpmathieu]

FUSTO WROTE:

At the boatyard I work for I've retrofitted a number of conduits in masts.

I am curious, about what you think about foaming a mast after installing conduits.

[Summersdawn]

Spray foam will crumble (I think the term is friable). I would think that after a while, little crumbs of foam will start coming out of the bottom of your mast. A well secured conduit should not need the foam.

[Tim]

I wouldn't ever put any foam in a mast.

[jpmathieu]

I wouldn't ever put any foam in a mast.

Neither would I, especially since I am already stuck with it.

[fusto]

Yeah, I'll go ahead and third the "no-foam-in-masts".

The Ericson mast I just redid had old mattress foam duct taped to the wires and then fed up the mast.
The duct tape and foam was so old that when I pulled the wires out the duct tape separated from the foam leaving pretty much all of it up inside the mast. Had to get creative with compressed air and a couple of long gaff hooks from the travelift pier on that one.

I did an old Pearson mast last summer that had solid blocks of white Styrofoam (like dock flotation material) pushed all the way up the mast.
That was a nightmare to get out. And the little white Styrofoam pellets get EVERYWHERE! I'm still picking them out of my toolbox.

So to sum up, yeah foam in a mast is bad.
Um, unless its needed for flotation.
Then I guess its good.

I'll try to write a little concise (yeah, fat chance...) step by step on installing a conduit in a mast.
At least how I do it.
If I leave anything out I'm sure the brain-trust will step up.

[richfriend]

I look forward to your treatise on 'The Installation of PVC Conduit in Aged Sailing Vessel Masts' as my mast is sitting on sawhorses in my driveway eagarly awaiting the arrival of somewhat warmer weather so that it may recieve new electrical service. (That way, the masthead light, radio, deck light, and wind indicator light actuall have some chance of working)

If you have any tricks for removing 30 yr old SS machine screws from the aluminunm masthead fitting I would appreciate it also. I have been applying PowerBlaster with religious enthusiasm to no avail. I have not yet tried Tabasco Sauce although I have heard that it works miracles at times. The Captn of the boat I race on is from Lousianna and has promised my that come springtime he will perform some ritual during the full moon involving a chicken and some of his friends, which will cause the screws to back out all by themselves, but sadly, my faith is lacking.

I have assemled a variety of surgical tools (angle grinder, center punch, titanium drill bits, e-z outs, torch etc.), but hesitate to proceed untill it is the last resort. (Note: the heads on the machine screws are still intact)

Thanks
richfriend

'76 Kells 28 Outrider
currently awaiting bulkhead installation, minor deck recore, and deck paint

[Ceasar Choppy]

I had similar trouble getting my masthead off. Although my problem wasn't the 20 some screws holding it on to the mast, but the corrosion between the stainless masthead and the aluminum mast.

I used Kroil... soaked it over night, and came back with a propane torch, a 5 lbs. sledge and some aluminum blocks I used against the lip of the masthead fitting. Took about 20 mins after a month of trying other various ways.

For your situation with screws, I would use an impact driver with plenty of Kroil (or the penetrent of your choice) and some HEAT. The heat will definitely help if you have enough of it. This is the only way I was able to get other frozen screws out of my mast. The last resort it drilling them out.

[Figment]

Ditto the impact tool and the heat.
Do you have a powerful soldering iron? The kind that looks like a pistol, not the kind that looks like a pencil. Very effective at heating smaller fasteners.

Have you been tapping the screw heads with a hammer at all? I know it sounds stupid, but I've found that soaking in PB is far more effective in combination with a bit of percussion.

A bit of Voodoo might be just the trick, however!

[Figment]

And really WHAT IS THE DEAL with the use of stainless screws in these applications? These fittings are rarely under any real load. Why not use aluminum pop-rivets and avoid the electrolysis altogether?

My mast step fitting is swiss cheese after decades of stuck-and-drilled fasteners. For what?! To keep the fitting from falling out during the stepping and unstepping of the mast?

[Hirilondë]

Edson sells aluminum bolts for securing their pedestals. They cost a fortune (and I have no idea why except that they can get it). I would use aluminum fasteners in aluminum anywhere it is strong enough.

[Case]

I've wondered about this, too. Is it fine to use aluminum screws (if you can find them) for attaching the masthead fitting to the mast extrusion instead of S.S. ? The screws in this case is merely holding the masthead fitting on the mast. The same question applies to the caps on the ends of the boom.

Is there ANY website out there that sells aluminum screws and so on? Anyone else other than Edson (only one I know of so far)?

On a related note... All of the screws on the mast and boom I am working on right now are of the self tapping variety. Machine screws would be better. Is it possible to fill the old screw holes with epoxy and then tap that epoxy filled hole? Or would it be better to simply drill out the old hole and tap that hole for a slightly larger screw?

- Case

[Ceasar Choppy]

You might be able to find aluminum fastners through McMaster or maybe Aircraft Spruce.

But here's the rub, if your masthead (or whatever else you are attaching to the mast is stainless-- or at least not aluminum) you might as well use stainless fastners since aluminum will be very hard (read: break) to get out if they get corroded. Note that even cast aluminum is dissimilar enough to extruded aluminum to cause some corrosion. BTW: those Edson bolts are a nightmare if they are frozen.

I would recommend using easy to get stainless fastners and coat the threads with Tef-Gel to isolate the fastener and keep it from seizing. I did this with ALL the fasteners on my mast and while it is a little messy, they are always easy to remove. This stuff is available most places... here is a link to a site that explains it a little bit better that the company's site: http://www.users.bigpond.com/jim.chambers/TEF_GEL.HTM

[Tim]

All of the screws on the mast and boom I am working on right now are of the self tapping variety. Machine screws would be better. Is it possible to fill the old screw holes with epoxy and then tap that epoxy filled hole? Or would it be better to simply drill out the old hole and tap that hole for a slightly larger screw?

I'd drill out a larger hole and then tap for the next size fastener. Epoxy wouldn't have much room to "grab", thanks to the minimal wall thickness of the spar. Even though these fasteners aren't typically subjected to much load, I'd still rather see actual metal-metal threads, rather than rely on a very narrow edge for bonding epoxy into the old hole.

And yeah, forget about using self-tappers--definitely a poor choice for installing things to spars.

I would recommend using easy to get stainless fastners and coat the threads with Tef-Gel to isolate the fastener and keep it from seizing. I did this with ALL the fasteners on my mast and while it is a little messy, they are always easy to remove.

I agree with this approach. Even if you find aluminum fasteners that would work, there's a very good chance that it's a different alloy from the mast, and you may not improve the corrosion potential--and might make it worse.

A little Tef-Gel or just about any thread sealant, including even something like polysulfide caulk, is enough to prevent the worst thread corrosion and protect the fasteners and surrounding aluminum. It doesn't take much of anything to help prevent the corrosion and seizing in any fastener on your mast.

[fusto]

OK, I know I said concise, but this was the best I could do...
Hope you're all comfy. Maybe get a drink of water or a bathroom break if need be.

And were off!

Installing a new conduit in an old mast.

Get a number of lengths of schedule 20 PVC close to the length of your mast (longer is better). 1" diameter is a pretty good bet. But if you have a honkin' big radar cable or something you can get bigger.
I think the schedule 20 comes in 10 foot lengths. Schedule 20 has a much thinner wall than the schedule 40, which makes it lighter and easier to drill and pop rivet. Although, the thin wall does make it a bit more brittle, so you have to be careful with the hole-saw (we'll get to that).

I then remove all the old wires and foam and whatever other oddities are stuffed up the mast (found an 8 foot long piece of aluminum window flashing in my mast).

Figure out where lights, radar, VHF antenna, etc. etc. will go on the mast and clean up the existing wire holes or drill new ones. I usually dry-fit all the hardware at this point. Drill and tap any mounting holes and make sure your fixtures fit. You really don't want to have to drill into the mast near the conduit after you run your wires.

Orient the mast in a position where gravity will hold the conduit in the position you like.
I usually put the conduit right in the center of the forward part of the mast, but sometimes there are fasteners or whatever and you have to go off center or even in the back.
Just find where it rests the flattest and where you will most likely be able to fish wires into the conduit from your wire exit holes.

Put the lengths of PVC together (glue 'em with PVC cement) and then up inside the mast.
You probably don't want the PVC right up against the top of the mast inside the masthead, because you'll never be able to get masthead wiring in our out, so back it off a reasonable amount. Sort of depends on your access and your masthead configuration.

Once the conduit is positioned you'll need to make a bunch of marks. I like a nice new red Sharpie for this.

The PVC will probably be longer than your mast and you'll need to lop a bit off.
How far up the inside from the bottom of the mast you cut the PVC depends on keel step, deck step, wire exit plate locations, whatever.
Just choose the most appropriate spot for your situation.

Then mark the top end with an arrow pointing to the masthead and a simple "top" (trust me) and mark an "up" side. That way when you put the conduit back in and out 10 times you'll always get your wire holes in the right spot and you wont get it in upside down.

Then go to all your wire exit points. Radar, deck light etc. stick the Sharpie in the hole and mark the conduit at all these spots.
Make sure you don't shift the conduit!

Pull the PVC back out and cut off the bottom wherever you marked it. Then go around with a small hole-saw (size depends on wire gauge and PVC diameter) and cut holes in the conduit where you need to have wires exit.
Its nice to consolidate the holes into a bigger hole or an ovoid hole if you have a bunch in one area. i.e. radar, steaming and spreader lights. Don't get too big though or you'll compromise your conduit.
Clean up any ragged edges so your wires wont chafe.
Remember the SCH 20 is a little brittle so be very gentle with the hole-saw.

Put the conduit back in the mast in its proper orientation (Top! Up!) and take a light and check to see if you can sight all the holes in the conduit near you wiring exits. Make sure they're not too high or low or behind a shroud tang fitting or whatever.
You'll need to be able to stuff a fish tape in there and then eventually pull a wire back through.
This is the point where you can make it easier on yourself.

Once your happy with the conduits position you can pop rivet it in place.
I think on the last mast I did I used 3/16 aluminum pop rivets. I cant remember the shank length. Sort of depends on the thickness of your mast section.
You want the rivet to penetrate the mast and the conduit and be sticking through far enough to rivet securely. If too much sticks through you'll have a loose conduit. If not enough sticks through then you'll have an unfastened conduit. You want to see about an 1/8 of an inch.

At the bottom its easy to drill and hold the conduit in place at the same time. So just drill through the mast into the conduit keeping everything from shifting around. I usually use a brand new drill bit.
Put some tef-gel on the rivet shank, put it into the hole in the mast/conduit and pop it into place.
From here on out I usually go about every two to three feet. Space it out so you'll avoid the lights and radar and whatever else you've got on your mast. Space it evenly so it looks nice.

The rivets from here to the top are the tricky ones.
You'll need to drill an extra hole for every pop rivet that holds the conduit on.
One hole through the mast into the conduit and then another an inch or so away and outboard from the first just through the mast.
Some riggers like the two holes to be in the same plane i.e next to each other horizontally, but I have big dumb mechanics hands so I usually do the second hole an inch or so away horizontally and then up an inch or so as well. More room for big hands holding hooks and rivet guns.
This second hole is how you hold the conduit in place while you pop rivet it in the first hole.
I usually bend a nice sturdy hook out of a piece of welding rod (with the coating knocked off). Its way stronger than a coat hanger. But any piece of stiff wire will work. I just happen to like welding rod. It comes in convenient lengths and different diameters, and I have tons in the machine shop right next to where I do my rigging. :-)

Stick the hook into the outboard hole and hook onto the conduit. Then pull it down towards the hole you want to pop rivet into. Make sure your holes line up nicely and that the conduit is flush against the inside wall of the mast. You can usually drill the mast and the conduit at the same time, but sometimes you'll have to re-drill the rivet hole to make sure you drill through the conduit.
Pop rivet the conduit.
Remove the hook and then put a pop rivet into your hook hole.
Continue until the whole conduit is fastened.

Yes I know, you are essentially drilling extra holes in your mast, but thats how most of the big mast manufacturers do it. And thats how I was taught to do it years ago.
If this really bothers you, you can drill the two holes right on top of one another in line with your conduit, put the hook in one to pull the conduit down to the mast, pop rivet it, and then pop rivet the other, essentially giving you two pop rivets into the conduit instead of one in the conduit and one doing nothing.
But its not that easy. I've tried.
Your mileage may vary...

Then get a nice long fish tape and start running your wires.
At this point wire lubricant is your friend.

If you're still with me, thanks!
I didn't mean to ramble on quite so much. Even with its "War and Peace" length I'm sure I forgot some detail or some critical step. Oh well.
I hope that helped maybe point some of you in the right direction for your own mast.
Its really a "try and do it" kind of thing. Its not so easy to explain concisely.
I'll try and take some pictures of a mast I just finished on Monday, that will maybe help illustrate it better.

Whoo, now I need another cup of coffee...

[Mark.Wilme]

Wow, that could be the longest post to date ...

[Rachel]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, Zachary. Great information, which I'm sure I'll be doing a search for at some point.

Rachel

[Shoalcove]

Thanks Zachary,
I appreciate the effort!
Best regards, David

[Tim]

Nicely described! Thanks!

[Hirilondë]

"conduit in the mast" A search with those words should put this post on the top, easy even for me to find. A total rehab of my mast is on my mental list. I estimated it makes it to the top of this list next winter. Thanks Zachary.

[grampianman]

Thank you, Zachary,
Well described.

Now, gentle-people, should this forum think about becoming a 'wiki'pedia? I continue to be impressed at the level of professionalism displayed here and, just speaking for myself, always come here first with a question. Honestly, I have not come across a better site, given the wealth of information between the forum, it's links, and Tim's site.

So, Tim, should you be thinking of 'Navipedia'?

We can then all become lexicographers, amongst the hats we already wear!

Cheers,
Ian

[Rachel]

Maybe I'm just resisting change here, but I kind of like things the way they are. I think that the threaded nature of the board lends itself to more of a community feeling (e.g. the little personal facts and jabs that one wouldn't put into a Wiki entry); yet with a search you can find various threads on the topic you're interested in.

I heartily agree that this is a fabulous resource and a great group. Thanks to Tim and everyone who contributes for that.

Rachel

[dasein668]

I agree with Rachel. While I love wikis for what they are, this is not that. It's more about community and give-and-take discussions rather than just a repository of information. Though there is that as well, of course.

[Eric]

I'm mostly just a lurker here, but, I have to agree that the give and take of the forum is what keeps me checking in.

Now the MIR site on the other hand...

-- Eric

[Tim]

Don't worry, all. This site's not changing.

[grampianman]

I didn't mean for anything to be changed. Obviously, now, I should have added a disclaimer - Tongue firmly in cheek!


Cheers,
Ian