Hi All,
As mentioned in my "Dinghy" post I'm outfitting my C&C 40 for a few month trip down to the Abaco's, Exumas, etc. in the spring of 2008. The shake down cruise for this adventure is a month or so cruise up to New England starting in June of 2007. One of the items on the very long to-do list is a new primary anchor for the boat.
Here on the Chesapeake the bottom is firm mud, like God intended it, and anchoring a 40 foot boat is easy. Drop your 22lb. danforth off the bow, let out 8:1 scope, run up the engine in reverse, and you have an anchor that is set until judgment day. My understanding is that this is not the case everywhere. In foreign parts they have granular stuff called sand, sometimes with grass in it, or coral and shell. In the remote northland there is a country called "Maine" ( sp? ) where they don't even know what Grits are and there is stuff in the water called kelp. It's too much to even think about so I'm going to need help with this too.
I was thinking about something around 40 or 50 lb. in a Plow, CQR, Delta, Quickset, or Spade style anchor - they all look the same to me. ( I'm actually trying to be a little bit funny here as they all really do appear to be the same style of anchor to me) I'll get a new anchor roller to match whatever anchor I purchase.
I have 100' of stainless G4 chain backed with 200' of 1/2" premium three strand line for the new anchor. I also have a couple 25' lengths of G4 backed with 150' of three strand for the back up anchors.
Like with the dinghy, any and all advice is welcome.
George Jones
C&C 40 "Delphinus"
Wavelength 24 "Poco Loco"
P.S. -- I've noticed that lots of cruisers carry small Fortress anchors as emergency storm anchors because they hold so well. If they hold so well why don't people use them as primary anchors? ( I've always wondered about this )
P.P.S. -- The C&C 40 isn't an ultra heavy 40 foot cruiser. Dry displacement is around 18,000 lbs and loaded for cruising she is a bit over 20,000 lbs.
New Primary Anchor for C&C 40
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George ( C&C 40 )
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Tom Young
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Before this turns into an anchor thread,
I'll post my two cents. Hi George. Having anchored up and down the east coast through the Bahamas, I find Maine as easy as anywhere to get an anchor to set. All the anchors you listed should work fine(they all work fine btw). The few times you may run into kelp, any plow type anchors seem to get through it where a danforth may have a problem.
You also will have plenty of room, that seems to be in shorter supply the farther south you go. And we have an abundance of well protected anchorages which I find is more important than what you anchor with.
If anything, we have too much of that wonderful mud so I hope you have a wash down hose set up for cleaning off the chain. I hope you make it up our way, you'll be more than welcome.
You also will have plenty of room, that seems to be in shorter supply the farther south you go. And we have an abundance of well protected anchorages which I find is more important than what you anchor with.
If anything, we have too much of that wonderful mud so I hope you have a wash down hose set up for cleaning off the chain. I hope you make it up our way, you'll be more than welcome.
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Tim
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Few things bring up more vitriol, harsh opinions, conjecture, and pure BS than posts about what the "right" anchor is. I will not support any of these sorts of posts here, as they tend to turn very nasty, and few if any of these sorts of posts truly provide useful information. If one wants a bitter, opinionated, and unsubstantiated discussion on anchors, then there are other forums that will be happy to argue endlessly about it. Not here, please.
Let's keep this discussion at the high level, and avoid unequivocal opinions based on one's personal choice or, worse, on secondhand information found on the web. We all know that anchor selection goes far deeper (ha ha) than that. I'm not going to recommend any specific types in this post.
All anchors work well in some conditions, while the same anchor may not work well in some other type of bottom or condition. Some anchors are stronger than others, even if they look identical. Weight matters, but not necessarily as much as one might think. When in doubt, though, heavier is better than lighter, all other things being equal.
I think the first thing to remember is that one anchor will not ever do it all. Differing bottom conditions often require different anchors. A long-range cruiser needs to have at least a couple different types aboard for this eventuality, though most of your anchoring will be done with whatever you choose as your primary. Still, you want to choose a versatile primary so that it will do well in as many conditions as possible.
A primary anchor should store well, however you choose to store it. Most cruisers find that bow rollers are the most convenient means of storage and deployment, regardless of anchor type. Most anchors will work quite well in a roller, but some store more cleanly than others.
Certain anchor designs rely more on their supposed burying and holding power than on weight; others require more weight for a given size of boat. When considering anchors, remember that while holding power is undeniably important, the ideal conditions in which such power was determined are rarely present in real-world cruising, and therefore an anchor needs to be able to perform properly even if these ideals are not met.
Just because one anchor looks like another doesn't mean they are identical, or that they perform the same. Sometimes, the difference comes down only to the method of construction--some types may be forged, and others cast. Forged is stronger than cast, and this can make all the difference in some conditions. Also, the quality of the steel used to make the anchors can vary widely. So a knockoff look-alike of one brand may seem like a good deal, but may actually be inferior in real-world use. Sometimes, people choose one type over another purely because one might be less expensive, but this isn't really a good criterium
Lightweight anchors are favored by many because of their ease of portability; Fortress anchors, in particular, are popular because of their light weight and also because they disassemble for space-efficient storage. In my opinion, this is one reason--and a sound one--why these carried as "spares"...because they disassemble easily into a smallish bag. Extra anchors are usually bulky and hard to store.
Read enough, and you'll find horrible tales of failure for any type of anchor. You'll also find boasts of 100% perfect performance for any type. How do you really choose? It can be very difficult, particularly when the mean forum owner prohibits the usual opinions on the subject. I think one has to take all the various stories and experiences, as well as other factors, into consideration and form their own choice based on a proper balance of these factors. Throw away the highs and the lows, as with any averaging exercise, and a more clear picture begins to form that may guide you to an informed and successful choice.
I recommend you carry several anchors with varied characteristics to ensure that you always have an anchor on board for any sort of bottom you might reasonably encounter--and also to provide you with a ready spare should anything happen to your primary anchor.
I recommend you consider the track record of any anchor type when choosing. Clearly we haven't hit anything approaching the end of anchor development, but are the new designs better than some of the old standbys...or are they really just equal? Equal isn't a bad thing, when certain anchor types have been being used with great success for decades. No anchor will ever be perfect, or infalliable, or universal. Sometimes, new designs are created only to create a new demand. They're not necessarily an improvement.
It's easy to overthink the anchor thing, particularly in light of the 200 different types and, worse, the supposedly scientific tests and articles written ad nauseum on the subject. In the end, though successful anchoring comes down much more to proper setting of the anchor, whatever type, and proper seamanship.
And just because more people choose one type doesn't necessarily mean that that type is better than others...but you also must consider why so many people might choose that type, too. Probably, people who cruise aren't choosing anchors that don't work well, so they might actually have a reason to be using what they do. I know what I see hanging from the bow rollers of most long-term cruising boats, and what I don't see...there might be something to that.
My opinion is that any cruising boat should carry a fluke-style anchor, a penetrating-type anchor, and a third anchor of different design than the first two. All three should be appropriately sized for the boat, and should have their own rodes. If you want to carry more, that's fine too, but the three types seems like a minimum to me, particularly for the widely varied conditions you might find in your expected cruising grounds. Which anchor in each category you choose will depend on many things.
I chose the ones I personally use for a wide variety of reasons, including others' experiences, my own experiences, strength, storability, and personal preference. I have continued using the ones I have, particularly my primary, because I cannot fault its performance. I would switch in a pair of seconds if I felt an anchor wasn't performing the way I wanted, but wouldn't just change types without a truly compelling reason either.
Let's keep this discussion at the high level, and avoid unequivocal opinions based on one's personal choice or, worse, on secondhand information found on the web. We all know that anchor selection goes far deeper (ha ha) than that. I'm not going to recommend any specific types in this post.
All anchors work well in some conditions, while the same anchor may not work well in some other type of bottom or condition. Some anchors are stronger than others, even if they look identical. Weight matters, but not necessarily as much as one might think. When in doubt, though, heavier is better than lighter, all other things being equal.
I think the first thing to remember is that one anchor will not ever do it all. Differing bottom conditions often require different anchors. A long-range cruiser needs to have at least a couple different types aboard for this eventuality, though most of your anchoring will be done with whatever you choose as your primary. Still, you want to choose a versatile primary so that it will do well in as many conditions as possible.
A primary anchor should store well, however you choose to store it. Most cruisers find that bow rollers are the most convenient means of storage and deployment, regardless of anchor type. Most anchors will work quite well in a roller, but some store more cleanly than others.
Certain anchor designs rely more on their supposed burying and holding power than on weight; others require more weight for a given size of boat. When considering anchors, remember that while holding power is undeniably important, the ideal conditions in which such power was determined are rarely present in real-world cruising, and therefore an anchor needs to be able to perform properly even if these ideals are not met.
Just because one anchor looks like another doesn't mean they are identical, or that they perform the same. Sometimes, the difference comes down only to the method of construction--some types may be forged, and others cast. Forged is stronger than cast, and this can make all the difference in some conditions. Also, the quality of the steel used to make the anchors can vary widely. So a knockoff look-alike of one brand may seem like a good deal, but may actually be inferior in real-world use. Sometimes, people choose one type over another purely because one might be less expensive, but this isn't really a good criterium
Lightweight anchors are favored by many because of their ease of portability; Fortress anchors, in particular, are popular because of their light weight and also because they disassemble for space-efficient storage. In my opinion, this is one reason--and a sound one--why these carried as "spares"...because they disassemble easily into a smallish bag. Extra anchors are usually bulky and hard to store.
Read enough, and you'll find horrible tales of failure for any type of anchor. You'll also find boasts of 100% perfect performance for any type. How do you really choose? It can be very difficult, particularly when the mean forum owner prohibits the usual opinions on the subject. I think one has to take all the various stories and experiences, as well as other factors, into consideration and form their own choice based on a proper balance of these factors. Throw away the highs and the lows, as with any averaging exercise, and a more clear picture begins to form that may guide you to an informed and successful choice.
I recommend you carry several anchors with varied characteristics to ensure that you always have an anchor on board for any sort of bottom you might reasonably encounter--and also to provide you with a ready spare should anything happen to your primary anchor.
I recommend you consider the track record of any anchor type when choosing. Clearly we haven't hit anything approaching the end of anchor development, but are the new designs better than some of the old standbys...or are they really just equal? Equal isn't a bad thing, when certain anchor types have been being used with great success for decades. No anchor will ever be perfect, or infalliable, or universal. Sometimes, new designs are created only to create a new demand. They're not necessarily an improvement.
It's easy to overthink the anchor thing, particularly in light of the 200 different types and, worse, the supposedly scientific tests and articles written ad nauseum on the subject. In the end, though successful anchoring comes down much more to proper setting of the anchor, whatever type, and proper seamanship.
And just because more people choose one type doesn't necessarily mean that that type is better than others...but you also must consider why so many people might choose that type, too. Probably, people who cruise aren't choosing anchors that don't work well, so they might actually have a reason to be using what they do. I know what I see hanging from the bow rollers of most long-term cruising boats, and what I don't see...there might be something to that.
My opinion is that any cruising boat should carry a fluke-style anchor, a penetrating-type anchor, and a third anchor of different design than the first two. All three should be appropriately sized for the boat, and should have their own rodes. If you want to carry more, that's fine too, but the three types seems like a minimum to me, particularly for the widely varied conditions you might find in your expected cruising grounds. Which anchor in each category you choose will depend on many things.
I chose the ones I personally use for a wide variety of reasons, including others' experiences, my own experiences, strength, storability, and personal preference. I have continued using the ones I have, particularly my primary, because I cannot fault its performance. I would switch in a pair of seconds if I felt an anchor wasn't performing the way I wanted, but wouldn't just change types without a truly compelling reason either.
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George ( C&C 40 )
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Ceasar Choppy
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George,
Its been my experience here on Chesapeake that Danforths work very well. They are hard to stow though-- especially for the size your need. My second choice is what I use on my Pearson 39 which is a 35# CQR. The CQR doesn't set as well as the Danforth or the Bruce in the Chesapeake mud, but it generally holds well and is easy to stowm.
I think a lot of folks go with the Fortress since it gives them the holding advantages of the Danforths while allowing them stowability.
Its been my experience here on Chesapeake that Danforths work very well. They are hard to stow though-- especially for the size your need. My second choice is what I use on my Pearson 39 which is a 35# CQR. The CQR doesn't set as well as the Danforth or the Bruce in the Chesapeake mud, but it generally holds well and is easy to stowm.
I think a lot of folks go with the Fortress since it gives them the holding advantages of the Danforths while allowing them stowability.
Tim, you made some very good points and I'm glad that you don't have any tolerance for bitter anchor-choice debates. George, if you had only read some of the long, drawn out "discussions" on other forums you would know why I laughed when I read that you'd made a decision so quickly and painlessly. I mean that in a good way and was somewhat laughing at myself as I seem to have to do tons of research, etc. before I can make that kind of decision. Good on you! :-)
I had good experience with a CQR on two different boats while out cruising, with no problems in probably 500+ nights of anchoring but then that was already in place as the main bower on both boats, so there was no decision required -- and also no comparison with other types.
I think it depends at least as much on how carefully one picks the anchoring spot and deploys the anchor. And also on the rest of the system, your roller set-up, rode, etc. Another thing to think about when choosing components is that the windage of your boat counts as much (or more?) as the weight of the boat when it comes to pressure on your ground tackle system. There's an excellent article on sizing chain and anchors in Lin and Larry Pardey's "The Capable Cruiser" if you want to read more about that. (As an example, this summer we had a customer getting ready to do some extensive cruising on a 42' Moody and, based on reading the article, we both came up with 3/8" High-test chain [G4 grade] as being appropriate for his needs.) It's good to make sure that everything in the system is up to similar standards to avoid a weak link.
I haven't cruised in the Bahamas, but based on other cruising in the tropics, I might be inclined to go with a bit longer chain than 100'. I cruised with an "alll chain" (~300' + additional rope for a 30-32' boat) rode so I'll freely admit to a bias for that. I slept better at night knowing that there was no way the rode was going to chafe through no matter how much chain I veered, and the caternary formed by so much weight can only help. On our boat, for example, it was 5 feet from the anchor roller to the waterline, so if we wanted 7-1 scope (in bad conditions, if we had the room) in 20 feet of water, that was already 175 feet of rode. On the other hand, the Bahamas is rather shallow, so you might not be anchoring in areas deep enough to require more. A good snubber (we used 50' of nylon three-strand rolling-hitched to the chain) can help a lot in rough conditions.
Also, a good anchor roller with something strong to keep the rode from jumping out, a nice fair lead to whatever cleats or chocks you will use for tying off the rode, and chafe-guard (if necessary) are things to think about. This probably goes without saying (but here I go anyway :-), but when you're out for an extended period of time you are almost certain to end up anchoring in dicey conditions or a less-than-ideal place, and with your whole "house" dependent on the ground tackle system, it's nice to have something you feel you can count on. Especially when you want to sleep or to leave the boat for a day of exploring.
As far as the Fortress/Danforth anchors go, I believe the reason that you don't often see them used as primary anchors when cruising is that they can have a problem resetting if the boat swings 180?, such as in a tide change or a major wind shift. I have read about something such as a ball of mud or an object getting stuck in the flukes and preventing a re-set.
Sounds like you have fun times ahead of you!
--- Rachel
I had good experience with a CQR on two different boats while out cruising, with no problems in probably 500+ nights of anchoring but then that was already in place as the main bower on both boats, so there was no decision required -- and also no comparison with other types.
I think it depends at least as much on how carefully one picks the anchoring spot and deploys the anchor. And also on the rest of the system, your roller set-up, rode, etc. Another thing to think about when choosing components is that the windage of your boat counts as much (or more?) as the weight of the boat when it comes to pressure on your ground tackle system. There's an excellent article on sizing chain and anchors in Lin and Larry Pardey's "The Capable Cruiser" if you want to read more about that. (As an example, this summer we had a customer getting ready to do some extensive cruising on a 42' Moody and, based on reading the article, we both came up with 3/8" High-test chain [G4 grade] as being appropriate for his needs.) It's good to make sure that everything in the system is up to similar standards to avoid a weak link.
I haven't cruised in the Bahamas, but based on other cruising in the tropics, I might be inclined to go with a bit longer chain than 100'. I cruised with an "alll chain" (~300' + additional rope for a 30-32' boat) rode so I'll freely admit to a bias for that. I slept better at night knowing that there was no way the rode was going to chafe through no matter how much chain I veered, and the caternary formed by so much weight can only help. On our boat, for example, it was 5 feet from the anchor roller to the waterline, so if we wanted 7-1 scope (in bad conditions, if we had the room) in 20 feet of water, that was already 175 feet of rode. On the other hand, the Bahamas is rather shallow, so you might not be anchoring in areas deep enough to require more. A good snubber (we used 50' of nylon three-strand rolling-hitched to the chain) can help a lot in rough conditions.
Also, a good anchor roller with something strong to keep the rode from jumping out, a nice fair lead to whatever cleats or chocks you will use for tying off the rode, and chafe-guard (if necessary) are things to think about. This probably goes without saying (but here I go anyway :-), but when you're out for an extended period of time you are almost certain to end up anchoring in dicey conditions or a less-than-ideal place, and with your whole "house" dependent on the ground tackle system, it's nice to have something you feel you can count on. Especially when you want to sleep or to leave the boat for a day of exploring.
As far as the Fortress/Danforth anchors go, I believe the reason that you don't often see them used as primary anchors when cruising is that they can have a problem resetting if the boat swings 180?, such as in a tide change or a major wind shift. I have read about something such as a ball of mud or an object getting stuck in the flukes and preventing a re-set.
Sounds like you have fun times ahead of you!
--- Rachel
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George ( C&C 40 )
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Hi Rachel,
This is the only forum that I ever post on so I was unaware that "anchors" were a painful subject. I'm glad that one person, at least, was able to get a chuckle out of it. :-) Nobody seemed to like the "Maine" ( sp? ) joke or the line about "Grits" either. Even Tim, who knows that I love Maine and spend the holidays just down Rt. 115 from him in Windham didn't laugh. Tough crowd!
Anyway, back to boats Rachel... While doing my dinghy research on people's personal websites I did notice that hardly anybody had a 300' stainless steel anchor rode. I noticed this because it was the one thing that appeared on everybodys wish list. :-) So you are certainly right in suggesting that it's something to think about. It is the one thing that is proof against accidently anchoring too close to a deeply submerged coral head. However, funds are not unlimited and I can't quite get to a place where I feel comfortable spending $3,500 just on chain. At least not at the moment. We'll see though as the spring of 2008 gets closer.
I currently use 100' of 3/8" stainless steel G4 chain on the boat backed by 200' of 1/2" 3-strand whose terminus is a heavy stainles steel padeye through-bolted to the anchor locker. The line is always fed through the boats primary anchor chocks and tied off to the primary bow cleats. I also have two backup anchors on board -- one up front and one at the stern. Combined with the new 44 lb CQR and the heavy Windline anchor roller I should have an anchor system free of the weak links you mentioned ( other than the 3-strand rope backing )
Thanks again for the note Rachel, I'm sure I'll be happy with the CQR if that's what you and the guys all suggest.
George
P.S. -- If anybody's interested, the best personal website I've found of a couple about my age ( 41 ) cruising the Abaco's, Exuma's, etc. is this one...
http://windom.cybox.com/index.html
Good logs, pictures, equipment lists, and cruising tips. 100' of chain and wishing they had 300' too :-)
P.P.S. -- Thanks for the Danforth and Fortress info Ceasar. When I'm on the Chesapeake I'll probably continue to use the Danforth. Thanks again.
This is the only forum that I ever post on so I was unaware that "anchors" were a painful subject. I'm glad that one person, at least, was able to get a chuckle out of it. :-) Nobody seemed to like the "Maine" ( sp? ) joke or the line about "Grits" either. Even Tim, who knows that I love Maine and spend the holidays just down Rt. 115 from him in Windham didn't laugh. Tough crowd!
Anyway, back to boats Rachel... While doing my dinghy research on people's personal websites I did notice that hardly anybody had a 300' stainless steel anchor rode. I noticed this because it was the one thing that appeared on everybodys wish list. :-) So you are certainly right in suggesting that it's something to think about. It is the one thing that is proof against accidently anchoring too close to a deeply submerged coral head. However, funds are not unlimited and I can't quite get to a place where I feel comfortable spending $3,500 just on chain. At least not at the moment. We'll see though as the spring of 2008 gets closer.
I currently use 100' of 3/8" stainless steel G4 chain on the boat backed by 200' of 1/2" 3-strand whose terminus is a heavy stainles steel padeye through-bolted to the anchor locker. The line is always fed through the boats primary anchor chocks and tied off to the primary bow cleats. I also have two backup anchors on board -- one up front and one at the stern. Combined with the new 44 lb CQR and the heavy Windline anchor roller I should have an anchor system free of the weak links you mentioned ( other than the 3-strand rope backing )
Thanks again for the note Rachel, I'm sure I'll be happy with the CQR if that's what you and the guys all suggest.
George
P.S. -- If anybody's interested, the best personal website I've found of a couple about my age ( 41 ) cruising the Abaco's, Exuma's, etc. is this one...
http://windom.cybox.com/index.html
Good logs, pictures, equipment lists, and cruising tips. 100' of chain and wishing they had 300' too :-)
P.P.S. -- Thanks for the Danforth and Fortress info Ceasar. When I'm on the Chesapeake I'll probably continue to use the Danforth. Thanks again.
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dasein668
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I saw "anchor" in the subject line and glazed over?never saw it! I now get a chuckle, but the moment is lost I think. heheGeorge ( C&C 40 ) wrote: Nobody seemed to like the "Maine" ( sp? ) joke or the line about "Grits" either.
FWIW I've had good luck with my CQR (spade-type) here in Maine, as a primary, over 5 years of cruising. Heavy kelp can definitely foul it and sometimes prevent it from setting, so beware.
As I think we all know, prudent mariner carries multiple anchor types etc etc etc.
Nathan
dasein668.com
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Tim
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I enjoyed your humor and apologize for not posting to that effect. I got so wrapped up in trying to write a response that would avoid any specific recommendations that I didn't come back with anything about your tongue-in-cheek comments about Maine.George ( C & C 40 ) wrote:Even Tim, who knows that I love Maine and spend the holidays just down Rt. 115 from him in Windham didn't laugh.
FWIW, I love grits and can't understand why they never caught on here in the north. Some grits with butter, salt and pepper, and some fried or soft-boiled eggs and bacon and you have yourself a thing of beauty.
Coming to Maine this Christmas, George? I'm not quite so close anymore, but if you come to Maine maybe you can spare some time for a visit to the new place.
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bcooke
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Yeah, anchors can bring up a flame war faster than any other subject that I know of in boat forum circles. The worst I have seen have been on other forums which I think is where the strong aversion comes from. Ground tackle systems have been discussed here in the past, in mostly polite tones, so you could do a subject search. You are still going to get more opinions than answers though. The advice already given in this thread is probably the best you can get. Just take that and mix in your own prejudice(?) and you will have your perfect answer.
Oh, and I got the humor, I just wasn't around to respond earlier.
-Britton
Oh, and I got the humor, I just wasn't around to respond earlier.
-Britton
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George ( C&C 40 )
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Hi Britton,
I just went back through the message postings and found a couple of threads that I had missed before. You're right, the basics don't seem to change. I'll order up a 44 lb. CQR and call it good.
Hi Tim,
I should be up in Windham between Christmas and New Year's. Let me know if you'll be around this year. I'd love to see the new digs.
George
I just went back through the message postings and found a couple of threads that I had missed before. You're right, the basics don't seem to change. I'll order up a 44 lb. CQR and call it good.
Hi Tim,
I should be up in Windham between Christmas and New Year's. Let me know if you'll be around this year. I'd love to see the new digs.
George
Anchors... This is something that I think its better that you buy whatever you like and try it out. What works for one person often don't work for another.
Now I have said this, I would like to mention that I personally love Danforth/Fortress anchors. But I would not sleep while on them in Maine because of the strong tides (10+- feet, often more). The tides means your boat will move in an entirely different direction while you are asleep and the anchor often has to reset. Danforth/Fortress anchors has a checkered past for resetting properly. You can sleep easier by having TWO such anchors but I suspect you will not be all that motivated having to put down two anchors after a day's sail.
The CQR is a proven classic and should work well for you. Only way to find out if you like it is to USE it. Most people love it but a certain percentage simply have lousy luck with it and hate it totally. Hopefully, for your wallet's sake, you do not fall in that small percentage.
Since its clear you did not know that anchors can be a painful subject, I suggest you go to the CSBB. Type "CSBB" in google and you will find that forum. I love it, its funny and there is lots of good info in it. BUT, on the other hand, there are lots of... crap. Crap from others. Anchors is a surefire way to cause flameouts. Many people find them unpleasant and they ARE unpleasant for me time to time. But mostly, I am amused by the nasty language and the clearly idiotic rantings by some people. That kind of thing is simply not tolerated in this forum. That's why the Forum Owner was sooo quick to refuse to offer any real specifics because he doesn't want anything like what happens in the CSBB to happen in THIS forum.
I do recommend you to search anchor threads in the CSBB and learn all you can about anchors. If you're easily offended, don't bother going there at all.
Now for more info on other anchors... I suggest you also look at the Rocna... a new anchor from New Zealand. I have no personal experience in it but from what I have learned and from the looks of the anchor itself, I think it may actually be an improvement on the CQR. But still... please refer to my first sentence.
As for the Bruce anchor, it seems that the Bruce is dead now. There are no new Bruces being sold now. The Bruce Anchor company still exists but they have ceased selling Bruces to us "regular" boaters for a few years. An Italian company was making the Bruce until now. I suspect that there will be no new Bruces from now on because of the dominion of the cheap knockoffs. Some of those knockoffs do work very well but its sometimes hit and miss with them.
- Case
Now I have said this, I would like to mention that I personally love Danforth/Fortress anchors. But I would not sleep while on them in Maine because of the strong tides (10+- feet, often more). The tides means your boat will move in an entirely different direction while you are asleep and the anchor often has to reset. Danforth/Fortress anchors has a checkered past for resetting properly. You can sleep easier by having TWO such anchors but I suspect you will not be all that motivated having to put down two anchors after a day's sail.
The CQR is a proven classic and should work well for you. Only way to find out if you like it is to USE it. Most people love it but a certain percentage simply have lousy luck with it and hate it totally. Hopefully, for your wallet's sake, you do not fall in that small percentage.
Since its clear you did not know that anchors can be a painful subject, I suggest you go to the CSBB. Type "CSBB" in google and you will find that forum. I love it, its funny and there is lots of good info in it. BUT, on the other hand, there are lots of... crap. Crap from others. Anchors is a surefire way to cause flameouts. Many people find them unpleasant and they ARE unpleasant for me time to time. But mostly, I am amused by the nasty language and the clearly idiotic rantings by some people. That kind of thing is simply not tolerated in this forum. That's why the Forum Owner was sooo quick to refuse to offer any real specifics because he doesn't want anything like what happens in the CSBB to happen in THIS forum.
I do recommend you to search anchor threads in the CSBB and learn all you can about anchors. If you're easily offended, don't bother going there at all.
Now for more info on other anchors... I suggest you also look at the Rocna... a new anchor from New Zealand. I have no personal experience in it but from what I have learned and from the looks of the anchor itself, I think it may actually be an improvement on the CQR. But still... please refer to my first sentence.
As for the Bruce anchor, it seems that the Bruce is dead now. There are no new Bruces being sold now. The Bruce Anchor company still exists but they have ceased selling Bruces to us "regular" boaters for a few years. An Italian company was making the Bruce until now. I suspect that there will be no new Bruces from now on because of the dominion of the cheap knockoffs. Some of those knockoffs do work very well but its sometimes hit and miss with them.
- Case
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bcooke
- Master of the Arcane
- Posts: 2272
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:55 pm
- Boat Name: Jenny
- Boat Type: 1966 Pearson Triton
- Location: Rowley, MA
- Contact:
Good choice. You can't go wrong there.George wrote: I'll order up a 44 lb. CQR and call it good.
That is an interesting fact that I haven't heard before. I must have bought the last two they had. I like them (even the originals were much cheaper than than the CQR's)it seems that the Bruce is dead now.
-Britton
Britton.... When did you buy your two Bruces?
I noted that retailers like Defender and Hamilton and the like had them in stock until last winter - spring. Sometime during last spring, Bruces basically disappeared. If you check online, you cannot find them anymore. People in the CSBB alerted me to the fact that there was no longer any new Bruces (other than the odd new ones collecting dust until now) being sold anymore.
Its possible that I may have given the Bruce an accidental obituary but seriously, I haven't been able to find any new ones for sale for more than half a year. The only new ones left I have found so far was "bought but not used" in eBay. I do hope they come back in production again because the quality was better. I bought an used Bruce in eBay and even though it was obviously used(a bit of rust), it was in better shape than most brand new Claws I saw in the the stores! Those Claws are cast terribly, terribly galvanized. A couple I saw was pretty good, almost Bruce-like quality but these were rare.
- Case
I noted that retailers like Defender and Hamilton and the like had them in stock until last winter - spring. Sometime during last spring, Bruces basically disappeared. If you check online, you cannot find them anymore. People in the CSBB alerted me to the fact that there was no longer any new Bruces (other than the odd new ones collecting dust until now) being sold anymore.
Its possible that I may have given the Bruce an accidental obituary but seriously, I haven't been able to find any new ones for sale for more than half a year. The only new ones left I have found so far was "bought but not used" in eBay. I do hope they come back in production again because the quality was better. I bought an used Bruce in eBay and even though it was obviously used(a bit of rust), it was in better shape than most brand new Claws I saw in the the stores! Those Claws are cast terribly, terribly galvanized. A couple I saw was pretty good, almost Bruce-like quality but these were rare.
- Case
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Mark.Wilme
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 340
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:35 pm
- Location: MA and RI
George,
Not intending to provoke or be inflamatory but I am curious as to how you get on with a 22lb Danforth on a 40ft boat. Do you use this as a day hook or do you anchor overnight with it, if so - in a blow ? Does it hold well ?
I ask because (and this may be where my inexperience may show) it seems light for a boat of that size, or maybe your chain makes up for it with a longer horizontal pull, or maybe the Danforth is just "different".
Would be interested to hear.
Mark
Not intending to provoke or be inflamatory but I am curious as to how you get on with a 22lb Danforth on a 40ft boat. Do you use this as a day hook or do you anchor overnight with it, if so - in a blow ? Does it hold well ?
I ask because (and this may be where my inexperience may show) it seems light for a boat of that size, or maybe your chain makes up for it with a longer horizontal pull, or maybe the Danforth is just "different".
Would be interested to hear.
Mark
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
And how.Case wrote: Many people find them unpleasant and they ARE unpleasant for me time to time. But mostly, I am amused by the nasty language and the clearly idiotic rantings by some people. That kind of thing is simply not tolerated in this forum.
CSBB is the poster child for what this forum will never become.
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Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
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George ( C&C 40 )
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:39 pm
- Location: Williamsburg, VA
Hi Mark,
No worries hee at all, I think it's a good question. The Danforth is extremely effective for it's size here on the Chesapeake. The firm clay mud bottom of the bay plays to the strengths of the Danforth. The biggest problem I have with the anchor is getting it to let go of the bottom the next morning.
The Chesapeake is easy though -- No granite ledges, no extreme tides or currents, no coral heads. I never have to anchor in more than 15' of water and it's almost always 10' or less. This means a scope of 15:1 or better most of the time. I'm usually within 150' of a windward shore too.
The only difficulty we ever have down here is from the summertime thunderstorm line squalls that pop up every few days when it's been really really hot out. We'll get 20 - 30 minutes of simply unreal winds in the 45 - 60 knot range. The danforth handles these squalls with ease although chafe protection of the 3-strand line is critical.
Mark, Where do you keep your boat. I see MA and RI in your header. I was born in Boston, went to college at Bryant down in Smithfield, RI, lived for years and years in Providence, and have spent lots of time in all the coastal towns. This is what causes me to be labeled a "Damn Yankee" down here in SE Virginia. A "Yankee" visits the South, a "Damn Yankee" moves here :-)
George
No worries hee at all, I think it's a good question. The Danforth is extremely effective for it's size here on the Chesapeake. The firm clay mud bottom of the bay plays to the strengths of the Danforth. The biggest problem I have with the anchor is getting it to let go of the bottom the next morning.
The Chesapeake is easy though -- No granite ledges, no extreme tides or currents, no coral heads. I never have to anchor in more than 15' of water and it's almost always 10' or less. This means a scope of 15:1 or better most of the time. I'm usually within 150' of a windward shore too.
The only difficulty we ever have down here is from the summertime thunderstorm line squalls that pop up every few days when it's been really really hot out. We'll get 20 - 30 minutes of simply unreal winds in the 45 - 60 knot range. The danforth handles these squalls with ease although chafe protection of the 3-strand line is critical.
Mark, Where do you keep your boat. I see MA and RI in your header. I was born in Boston, went to college at Bryant down in Smithfield, RI, lived for years and years in Providence, and have spent lots of time in all the coastal towns. This is what causes me to be labeled a "Damn Yankee" down here in SE Virginia. A "Yankee" visits the South, a "Damn Yankee" moves here :-)
George
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Ceasar Choppy
- Boat Obsession Medal Finalist
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:05 am
- Location: Port Starboard, MD
Re the Danforth/Fortress: these anchors work a bit differently than CQRs so weight of the anchor is not as important. This is why folks like them-- they are lighter and easier to launch /carry. I was always amazed that a 12 lb. Danforth would hold my 27 ft. Pearson Renegade (6500# design displacement) in up to 25 knots of breeze.
Re the Bruce. The best thing I found about Bruces are that they set so quickly. Holding is a whole 'nuther matter, although I know of at least one that I set so well that it is still sitting at the bottom of the anchorage at Horta in the Azores (along with 90 feet of chain!).
Re the Bruce. The best thing I found about Bruces are that they set so quickly. Holding is a whole 'nuther matter, although I know of at least one that I set so well that it is still sitting at the bottom of the anchorage at Horta in the Azores (along with 90 feet of chain!).