Transmission shifting in a Triton/A4

[bcooke]

I know others have been thinking about this so I thought I would post my thoughts and see what comes of it.

First, I think the original EC Triton shift linkage is kinda cool in a funky retro sort of way. It isn't pretty, it isn't unobtrusive, but it has a very positive action, it is brutally simple, and it works reliably- just don't let that 5 pound lever whack you when it decides to slide around the cockpit.

In my case though it has to go. It interferes with my plans for an under cockpit fuel tank since it operates right through the middle of my proposed tank.

One thought I had was to move it to the forward edge of the cockpit sole and try to figure out a short linkage that will allow it to continue to work. The lremovable lever would have to be bent so that it doesn't contact the bridge deck. Because the lever on the transmission and the lever on the shifter are moving in arcs along opposite planes, figuring out a good linkage could be tricky I think.

A cable would have to be pretty heavy to overcome the large shifting force required and a large cable needs a large radius to bend it around into position. I also don't like cables because they tend to exacerbate (?spelling) any slop in the system.

Sooo... my thinking, as of tonight, is to mount a lever on the starboard side of the cockpit well connected to a 1 inch pipe just like the original but make the link go through 2 ninety degree bends to making a 'Z' shaped direct link. Normally I think the angles would make for a connection with lots of slop but by sticking with large/heavy pipe sections I believe there just might be enough rigidity to get away with this unorthodox method.

Anyone else have a better idea?

[Figment]

One thought I had was to move it to the forward edge of the cockpit sole and try to figure out a short linkage that will allow it to continue to work. The lremovable lever would have to be bent so that it doesn't contact the bridge deck. Because the lever on the transmission and the lever on the shifter are moving in arcs along opposite planes, figuring out a good linkage could be tricky I think.

How about mounting it in the forward face of the cockpit well? So that it operates up-and-down instead of fore-and-aft?
At the moment I can't quite visualize how far aft the xmission's shift axle is from the cockpit face, but it might just be close enough to work without bashing the heck out of the distributor.

I've been knocking this issue around as well, but for a slightly different reason.
I'm tired of being scorned for my puny little 8" access port.
I can't quite get past the aesthetics of the big rectangular hatches.
I'm seriously considering converting the entire forward 2/3 of the cockpit floor into one huge hatch. I think, THINK, that there is enough slop in the shift linkage to allow me to hinge the starboard side of this "hatch" and leave the shifter where it is. I'll just swing up a bit when the hatch is opened.
Or I might need a quick-release pin at one end of the linkage shaft.
Or it might not work at all and I'll need to borrow whatever solution you come up with. :)

[bcooke]

How about mounting it in the forward face of the cockpit well? So that it operates up-and-down instead of fore-and-aft?

Yes. I had considered it but I forgot to mention that idea. A heavy cable would only need to make a 90 degree turn so it might fit but it would be tight. I wasn't sure how I would anchor the cable at the transmission end. The handle would also have to be designed so as to be removable or otherwise not intrude into the middle of the cockpit.

Designing a handle that moves in and out would also be an option.

The shift level on the transmission on my boat is very close to the forward edge of the cockpit well when in neutral. It moves forward about two inches in forward gear and about six inches aft in reverse 'gear'.

With a 2/3 removable cockpit sole, where would you sit/kneel/lie while reaching into the opening? A side opening is an option, leaving the starboard side intact for the shift linkage. The shifter fitting on the cockpit sole could also be moved to starboard several inches without effecting its operation.

I could just live with a 12 gallon fuel tank and leave the linkage alone...
Or design a fancy fuel tank with a slot in the middle for the linkage. I think I need to get some sleep ;-)

-Britton

[Tim]

There are plenty of A4s out there in more "modern" boats that don't use the mechanical linkage and use normal control cables. Are their transmissions different? Did the operation change between the earlier A4s and the later? Since your particular A4 is a relatively recent one, does it really require the "oomph" of the mechanical linkage?

How much force is actually required to move the lever? There is a heavy duty 1/2" cable available that would move even the clunkiest transmission lever. I had one of these cables when I was attempting to use my old Yanmar SB12, which had an old-fashioned and very stiff transmission lever.

(I am pretty sure I still have this cable kicking around, if it'd be helpful...)

Good cables provide very positive action when properly installed and adjusted, so there really shouldn't be a problem with that assuming the cable can be made to work. Of course, the A4 transmission isn't the most positive-action thing in the world to begin with, so I understand your concerns there.

And yes, you spelled "exacerbate" correctly.

[Tim]

I can't quite get past the aesthetics of the big rectangular hatches.

What about a cockpit grate to cover the ugly hatch?

[Ceasar Choppy]

This is the only "close-up" I have of the set up on my previous boat. It used the top of an old-style winch with the corresponding blade-type handle. A cable is attached to the other side of it that goes to the shift on the engine. Was only a 90 deg turn and was plenty reliable and easy to operate. In this picture it is forward of the throttle. Don't mind the bits of gel coat I was scraping off at the time. :)

[Jason K]

#594 had a standard gear/throttle lever identical to the one Ceasar Choppy just posted. It was located port side about even with the rudder post.

[Figment]

I can't quite get past the aesthetics of the big rectangular hatches.

What about a cockpit grate to cover the ugly hatch?

I wouldn't say that the hatches are ugly. It's more that they simply have too much "presence". My 2/3 hatch idea has just as much presence, of course, but I'll be able to climb right down in there rather than reach down through a hole, so the presence has more payoff.

I've talked a lot about a cockpit grate, haven't I? ;)
Not so much since I installed the boomkicker and pinned the sliding gooseneck. With the sliding gooseneck, I used to "stow" my boom about 8" higher when not in use. Now it's made me acutely aware that I really don't want to raise the cockpit sole another 1-1/2".
Of course, I could simply raise the gooseneck and get a new mainsail to fit....
DAMN THAT IT'S ALL CONNECTED!!!!

Back on topic.... I know that some people have found ways to shift the A4 with a cable, but it seems like a persistent source of trouble for those folks. Clunky and cumbersome as it is, I rather like the idiot-proof nature of the lever-and-linkage system. One less thing to have to "tune" periodically. Even with the 18" lever, it does take a good bit of force to get a positive shift into reverse.

My "forward face of the cockpit well" idea intended to use the existing components. If the arm on the gearbox shift axle were rotated 90degrees aft (so that it's motion is up and down instead of fore and aft), one could simply use a shorter linkage to achieve the same action.... down is forward, up is reverse.

[bcooke]

I am pretty sure all the transmissions are essentially the same in A4's. I seem to remember something about the casting being different or maybe a little internal bit had changed in the later models but essentially they continue to work in the same way.

I haven't talked with many other A4 owners about their transmissions but if they are like mine they are heavy and clunky. I think the question has come up several times on the Moyer A4 forum. A peculiarity of the A4's is that the reverse gear doesn't 'lock' in like forward gear. Pressure has to be continuously applied to put pressure on the bands that grip the driven parts. A heavy linkage and lever will supply a good part of that pressure.

Part of the cable problem would be routing and anchoring it to work properly. If someone wanted to loan me a section of cable I could try it out...

Anyone notice how the cables were routed on the side mounted shift lever? A nice advantage of the winch head system is that with the handle removed you wouldn't be grumbling over the sheets getting caught all the time.

If the arm on the gearbox shift axle were rotated 90 degrees aft (so that it's motion is up and down instead of fore and aft), one could simply use a shorter linkage to achieve the same action

How would you change the up and down motion for the fore and aft motion of the shift lever on the tranny..... wait a minute... you can reposition the lever on the A4 transmission can't you? The trick would be to make sure that reverse was a down action on the lever. I will have to check that out. The distributor location might make this impractical.

For the same effort in making a large opening cockpit hatch couldn't you just lower the current sole? A sawz-all cut around the edges, a block to position the sole at the new height, and several layers of biax tape and you would have a new lowered sole.

DAMN THAT IT'S ALL CONNECTED!!!!

You got THAT right :-) Round and round we go and half the time we realize the builders chose the best option to begin with.

-Britton

[Ceasar Choppy]

I have a paragon tranny on my Perkins 4-108 which is virtually identical to that made for the A4 (also a Paragon for, at least most A-4s I think).

I believe Edson recommends using a size 64C cable (Morse 6400?? with 5/16" threaded ends) instead of the regular "33C" cable (#10 threaded ends), for pedestal mounted tranny control which I am currently looking to install. If I remember correctly on my Renegade's A4 (I no longer own), the cable was big and was probably a size 64 as well.

Assuming you don't have too sharp of a bend, I can't imagine there'd be any "slop" with the cable. The slop would come in at the connection points either on the tranny or at the mounting plate for whatever shifter you use where the cable is connected.