Cabintop clutter

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:17 am

I felt that I was dragging this single-line reefing thread too far off topic with my harebrained notions, so here let's start again.

The idea was to locate the control point of the three lines (cunningham, outhaul, and vang) about 5'6" from the FORWARD end of the boom. This point (a tad forward of the companionway hatch opening) is conveniently reached from the helm on a beat or close reach. On a dead run with the boom out near 90degrees, they'd be outboard of the rail by a foot or so.
This is out of reach of the helm on that dead run, but a dead run isn't really the point of sail that needs the tweaking. Certainly 75% of all tweaking could be done with at least one foot in the cockpit.

Britton and Tim asked why I don't want a dodger and why I'm resistive to the idea of bringing the lines aft along the coachroof.
It's interesting that these questions would be asked one after the other. They really are related, in a chicken-and-egg kind of way. If I had a dodger, I don't think I'd mind lines and hardware on the cabintop. Part of the reason why I don't want a dodger is that I like the ability to clamber forward over the top instead of going around. Of course, if I had a dodger and controls led aft, I'd be going forward less frequently and this would be less of an issue.... chicken and egg.

For some reason, I don't seem to take a great deal of spray over the cockpit. Probably the whole corkboat thing again. I also don't really feel the need for a shelter from the wind. Things are different north of Cape Cod, I know.
In my use, the primary virtue of a dodger would be that it provides some modicum of sun shade while underway, secondary that it allows the companionway to stay open in a rainstorm while at anchor. At present, neither of those virtues inspire me to incur the expense. Perhaps I'm still too much of a purist. Time seems to be whittling away at my purism, however.

OK fine I'll admit that at least PART of my resistance is that I'm in no rush to drill holes in or clutter up the cabintop that I just spent all those hours making pretty again!

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:48 am

Figment, I used to share you concerns to some degree-- but here is my $0.02 for a boat like the Triton. And I've never owned a Triton, but I have owned something very similiar.

1. Leading lines aft helps half the time. The other half you have to go forward so you might as well just leave them on the mast.
I had my lines led aft on my Pearson Renegade which I singlehanded A LOT. And while it was nice for raising sails quickly, you still had to go forward to lower them. Now, you could rig a downhaul on the jib, but you still have to go up there to get the main down. If I had it to do over again, I would not have bothered leading lines aft.

2. I'm amazed you don't get any spray. Low freeboard+traditional sheer=wet boat. A dodger certainly helps. The reason I always wanted one was for a modicum of sun protection. A bimini would have been better but is problematic with end-boom sheeting and a low boom (see below).

3. I would think your main issue with the dodger would be height of the dodger and whether your boom would have to be raised. This was my issue. And I never got it sorted out before I sold the boat.

4. I can appreciate your view about wanting to get on the cabintop quickly, but since that cabintop is high, doesn't that present an issue in its own right? What about dodgers with stainless handrails built in on the sides?

Like I said, an opinion that is worth about 2 cents, but thought it might help the discussion along.

Post by **dasein668** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:27 am

Mike, here's my two cents. I'd offer more, but I can't spare a quarter.

I also find that my boat is dry in most conditions. I also have a cork of a Triton. When the spray is bad enough to make the cockpit wet, I want my foulies anyway, and would probably rather be in port, so while part of me wants a dodger, I agree that the expense isn't worth it for me at this point. I mostly want the sun protection at anchor anyway, and my awning provides much better sun protection than a dodger ever could.

I find that having my primary control lines?outhaul, vang, and cunningham?led aft to the cockpit is a huge benefit. I've sailed the Triton both ways and when singlehanding I rarely if ever tweaked these controls. With my new(er) main with the loose foot and real sail shape, I find that I adjust these controls all the time. The trade off of the clutter is well worth the benefit. I wouldn't run any of my other lines aft, however, based on the way I sail.

I agree with CC that the Triton house seems awfully high to be clambering over rather than around. That surprises me. Curiosity: why do you prefer to go over rather than along the side deck?

keelbolts · Post by **keelbolts** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:54 am

I usually find dodgers or biminis to be a wart on a beautiful boat. I must say, however, if you are cruiser, something to hide under or behind can really be appreciated. Sitting for hours in a cold rain stinks. I find them ugly on a daysailer, but businesslike on a cruiser.

As for leading your lines aft, if I'm playing around the bay for an afternoon, I'm probably fiddling around with adjustments. Offshore, unless I'm racing, I'm probably not running around the boat making adjustments. You may raise your main and leave it up for weeks. It's OK to leave the cockpit to raise or lower a sail once a week. You should be tied to the boat anyway.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:40 pm

dasein668 wrote:Curiosity: why do you prefer to go over rather than along the side deck?

Because I can, I suppose. I'm 6'1". I can step from the bridge deck to the cabin top with hardly a stretch. Stepping from the companionway sill to the cabintop is easier still.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:46 pm

A wart to be sure... but even on a day sail, its nice to have some shade on those really hot days. An awning is nice, but not under sail. Problem with most canvas is that it is hard to drop/stow when you don't want it. dodger-- to me-- seems best compromise.

I should have clarified about lines led aft... I was talking halyards. Useful to have cunningham/downhaul, etc. led aft

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:59 pm

I'm not big on dodgers, but they make no sense in this climate, where the last thing you want to do is stay out of the wind.

A lot of people like biminis in this area. I have one for the Triton but have not reinstalled it. I like to be able to stand in the cockpit and the bimini is too low to accomodate that. I made it through this summer without it and did just fine, but there were a few light days where I missed the shade. This was a very mild summer though.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:20 pm

I can step from the bridge deck to the cabin top with hardly a stretch

A move like that would definitely lead to a lot of embarrassing ripped britches for me. I will continue to go around and grumble about the narrow sidedecks.

Funny, you start a new thread to get back on a topic and it gets taken for a ride in just a few posts. Not much use in fighting it. Are we talking about dodgers or running lines along the boom now?...

So, if we have established that you do not want a dodger and prefer to vault over the ungainly Triton doghouse then why don't you run the lines along the outside edges of the cabin top and let them hang off the sides? A coiled line imposing on a rarely used sidedeck wouldn't be terribly inconvenient.

-Britton

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:34 pm

We absolutely LOVE our Bimini. Would not be able to sail during the summer time without it considering our sun down here on the Texas coast. Plus my wife had heat related problems some years ago and that bimini allows her to sail- the shade is the ticket.

We have end boom sheeting but the bimini sits forward of that. I can stand on the bridge deck in front of it. Also gives us a place to mount the solar panel.

I bent the tubing and Laura sewed the bimini . That's the second one she's made. Sailrite has a CD telling how.

This was shot on Matagorda Bay on July 3rd, last year.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:34 pm

After a little serious thought...

Unless I am picturing it wrong I see the clutter from the cabin top just moving to the boom. The clutter remains just the location is different. Having several lines coiled and swinging off the boom would annoy me more than coiled and hanging off the cabin top. I think fastening the coils would be trickier too. That is just my take.

Rethinking my earlier half-baked idea, if the lines were led along the outer edges of the cabin top (along the 'eyebrows' if you had them), you could install hangers for the coils on the aft outer edge of the cabin top and the coils would hang down into the slot created by the coaming/cabin joint. That would mean giving up the perfect 2 liter Coke bottle slot but since you are building in a cockpit drink cooler anyway...

Come to think of it, maybe that is how I will route my lines (minus the useful slot found only on the earlier Tritons of course)

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:52 am

I can't find anything to add. We're talking about personal and regional choices here. I don't know how we got talking about dodgers again, but there's never any sense trying to convince someone one way or the other. There are sound reasons for either choice, and they are entirely individual.

Frankly, Mike, I think the answer may be to leave your control lines where they currently are. It seems to work for you without creating a level of frustration high enough to make you truly wish to reroute them. I just don't see that much advantage to the effort of rerouting them two feet further aft on the boom--not enough benefit . Sometimes, the best answer is the one you already have.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:49 pm

In the interim it has occurred to me that an effective intermediate step could be to install a few camcleats. These small adjustments would be much less of an event if the lines weren't made off to horn cleats.

Besides, while bending on the mainsail today, I took a realistic look and there's just no way I can make all that happen on that slender boom. I might be able to internalize the outhaul, but that's about it.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:05 pm

...I took a realistic look and there's just no way I can make all that happen on that slender boom.

Yet another reason to toss the original boom and replace it with something more substantial...

-Britton