traveler

[The Good Goose]

I am either going to rebuild or replace my mainsheet traveler. Anyone used a windward sheeting traveler car? They look really nice. Does anyone make them besides Harken?

How about the Garhauer units. Do they travel easily under heavy loading. What's the best unit for a Triton?

Thanks in advance
Brock

[Tim]

The Garhauer travelers are nice--a bit bulkier and heavier than their Harken counterparts, but very smooth and nice. Nathan has one on Dasein, and I put a similar version on the daysailor.



I'd probably go with Garhauer for the traveler, and Harken for the mainsheet tackle itself. Those ratchet blocks are awfully nice, I have to say.

I don't know much about windward sheeting. I'm not sure it's really necessary with the way the Triton is set up, where the helmsman can always reach the mainsheet tackle easily enough, but I'm sure Harken makes a nice one.

[dasein668]

I love my Garhauer traveller. As Tim indicates, the operation is very smooth. I've got the MT-2, which is a 4-part purchase with a ball-bearing traveler car, and I've had no troubles with the operation under heavy loading (that is, full main in 15-18 knots?any more wind than that and I'm tucking in a reef).

[CharlieJ]

I'm curious to find out if there is any real advantage to having a traveler set up like that? On my Meridian we have the original track and locks. They are so difficult to get set that we leave them locked in the center. If we let the traveler out all the way, the sheeting point would only move out about a foot. Looks like that's about the same as on the Triton.

Is moving the sheeting point out a foot REALLY worth all the hassle and expense? Once you start your sheets that traveler makes no difference at all- only when you are close reaching or close hauled. Off the wind it's not a factor.

So whatdya think? Is it REALLY worth it? Or is it just a nicety?

[The Good Goose]

Charlie

I use my traveler primarily when I race. It is especially nice on calm days or when it is blowing hard. It is more of a fine tuning thing. When I knock around Or single hand I usually just leave it in the center. One less thing I have to set my beer down to adjust. You could sail the world and never move your traveler. If I were cruising and it was between a new traveler and a charting gps i'd choose the gps. If you are fussy about sail shape and like getting the maximum pointing ability then the traveler is probably a good choice. My guess is that 8 out of ten people who don't race their boats rarely use the traveler. I sailed my old boat from mystic to isle au haut in maine and I know I never used the traveler. I didn't even understand what it was for. Even if I had known I doubt I would of used it much as we were reaching or downwind almost the whole time.


Nathan
you blocked your traveler up so it is straight rather then bending it. Is there a good reason for this? It looks really nice but I was hoping to bend mine to the curve of the deck. Do you think the rail would bend that much or would I need a prebend? What diameter is your mainsheet? I am debating between 3/8 and 7/16 and would like your or anyone elses thought s on this.


Thanks for all the help
Brock

[dasein668]

On the Triton I would say it makes a small to moderate difference. Certainly not what I would call a necessity. I do use it only when close-hauled, as you mention. That said, the new set up is so easy to adjust that I do use it quite a bit. My old traveler was so hard to adjust that it was useless and I never used it. But now it's no big deal to tweak, even when single handing.

Brock,

I don't believe there is any way that Garhauer track would have bent to fit. The curve, as you can see, is quite substantial and that I-beam track is quite rigid. Garhauer will prebend one for you, I believe.

I've had both 7/16 and 3/8 mainsheets. I liked the 7/16 but the 3/8 I have now is just fine. The blocks that I have for my tackle are designed for 3/8 which I didn't realize when I got the 7/16 sheet. I've since made that into a jibsheet, and switched back to 3/8. The difference isn't that major.

[dasein668]

If I were cruising and it was between a new traveler and a charting gps i'd choose the gps.

That's either one expensive traveller, or one cheap chartplotter! hehe

I agree with Brock. It's nice to have the traveler, and yes, I do use it a surprising amount, but it certainly isn't a necessity.

[Tim]

Travelers are really a racing thing, for fine-tuning and depowering the main without releasing sheet tension. They also allow you to keep the boom on centerline when sailing closehauled, which tends to help provide optimum sail shape.

These are concerns that don't really affect the average cruising sailor, though of course good sail shape is something that is always worth striving for. The thing about having additional sail controls for more adjustment is that once they're there, and easy to use, one tends to play around. This goes for things like travelers and boom vangs--two devices that are hardly essential, but pretty handy nonetheless.

I don't use mine that much, except beating very light winds when I want less sheet tension; then, I can pull the traveler up to windward to keep the boom and sail on the centerline. I rarely play with it in "normal" winds, as I find it easier to leave in the center. It's an important sail control if truly optimum sail trim is the goal, but unless you're racing, it's far from critical. Still, I would always have one on my boats, probably just because I'm used to having it available.

[CharlieJ]

yeah- I'm well familiar with using a traveler, from sailing beach cats with full width travelers and from my trimaran with a 12 foot one. Both make a difference when you are on a reach, because they allow the boom to be held down while it's away from centerline. VERY useful.

But on the Triton and my Meridian, with the end boom sheeting, there just isn't that much room in that traveler for it to really DO anything once the boom is out past the quarter, other than perhaps as Tim said- to hold it slightly to weather for light airs.

So I was just wondering if it was REALLY worth the money to add an adjustable traveler setup, or if it was really money wasted. Seems to me the answer is it is really money wasted. So I'll live with the one that's there and maybe rig a preventer to a stanchion base when further off the wind.

The boat can better use the bucks elsewhere anyway :)

[The Good Goose]

Nathan Wrote
"That's either one expensive traveller, or one cheap chartplotter! hehe"

I use the small black and white Garmin. I think it was about 350 from defender. I think you can get a handheld black and white for under 300. They aren't as flashy or as easy to read as the color but they do a good job. If your on a budget they are a great way to go.

Brock

[Figment]

I use my traveler a lot upwind, primarily for balancing the helm. It's a 4:1 but I rarely rig it for the full purchase.

Ive seen the same effect achieved with a mega-purchase fine tuning line on a vang, rigged like a double mainsheet.

[Eric]

Sophia's traveler is just a piece of track with a genoa car. Moving it requires that I unload the sheet enough to release the pin and control the car by hand. As annoying as this sounds, I find that it is worth it when I transit certain breezy corners where it is easier to flatten out the main for a bit, then it would be to put in a reef only to want it out again in a mile or two. With everything out of the outhaul and downhaul and the traveler to leeward, I can usually rebalance rig, or at least make steering managable for my kids.

One of those Garhauer rigs are on my list, but down in the "someday" zone along with rebuilding the galley and plumbing in the jacuzzi...

-- Eric

[Figment]

One advantage of having a relatively short traveler is that we can make use of damaged track (and therefore the whole system, usually) from larger boats. Keep an eye on the boneyards and consignment shops.

Oh, and in particular keep an eye out at beach cat venues. Beach cats have gadget-hungry owners, HUGE travelers, and track damage is quite common.

[AJ]

I love my Garhauer traveller. As Tim indicates, the operation is very smooth. I've got the MT-2, which is a 4-part purchase with a ball-bearing traveler car

Hi Nathan,

Could it possibly be the MT-1 that you've installed? After coming across this thread, I went to look up the price on Garhauer's website, and the picture of the MT-2 looked markedly different, but the MT-1 looks similar in appearance.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=34

I was also curious as to the length of your traveler?

Thanks,

AJ

[dasein668]

Could it possibly be the MT-1 that you've installed? After coming across this thread, I went to look up the price on Garhauer's website, and the picture of the MT-2 looked markedly different, but the MT-1 looks similar in appearance.

Yes, my mistake. MT-1.

As to length, I really don't remember exactly. It was something like 52 inches, maybe? Definitely don't quote me on that though. I won't be up to the boat for a while, so I can't check the measurement.

[AJ]

Yes, my mistake. MT-1.

As to length, I really don't remember exactly. It was something like 52 inches, maybe?

Thanks for the reply, Nathan. I guess Triton cockpits really are huge! The corresponding location on my boat suggests a traveler track of 30" in length... which brings up another question. At what point is the track length so short that having a traveler at all is no longer worthwhile?

AJ

[Hirilondë]

One of the POs of Hirilond? must have gotten the traveler at the same place as Eric. And I use it the same way. And replacing it with a fancy one is down in the same neighborhood on my list as Eric. Travelers do make sail trim/shape a bit better. On a small boat though it doesn't have to be a high tech affair unless you simply must have the latest and greatest and easiest to use or you have simply gotten all the other gadgets already and it makes it to the top of the list.

[Tim]

The corresponding location on my boat suggests a traveler track of 30" in length... which brings up another question. At what point is the track length so short that having a traveler at all is no longer worthwhile?

Somewhere right around there, I'd say. Remember that the track length is reduced by the length of the end caps/sheave arrangements, as well as the width of the traveler car.

I put a traveler on the Triton Daysailor, but it was quite short and really had an absurdly minimal length of travel. I'd say this traveler, also a Garhauer MT-1, is about 30" in overall length. But you can see that the travel is about one cars' length in either direction. Pretty silly, actually. I wouldn't bother with it if I were doing this same job again.

[Duncan]

Would you be almost as well off the way they used to do it, like this?

[AJ]

One of the POs of Hirilond? must have gotten the traveler at the same place as Eric. And I use it the same way. And replacing it with a fancy one is down in the same neighborhood on my list as Eric. Travelers do make sail trim/shape a bit better. On a small boat though it doesn't have to be a high tech affair unless you simply must have the latest and greatest and easiest to use or you have simply gotten all the other gadgets already and it makes it to the top of the list.

Thanks for your input, Dave. That sounds like an option to consider as doing without the control blocks of a traveler would leave more open track for the car to travel. And I like low tech!

Somewhere right around there, I'd say. Remember that the track length is reduced by the length of the end caps/sheave arrangements, as well as the width of the traveler car.

I put a traveler on the Triton Daysailor, but it was quite short and really had an absurdly minimal length of travel. I'd say this traveler, also a Garhauer MT-1, is about 30" in overall length. But you can see that the travel is about one cars' length in either direction. Pretty silly, actually. I wouldn't bother with it if I were doing this same job again.

Thanks again, Tim. That photo really puts things in perspective when considering a track of 30 inches. I suppose if I mounted the traveler track on a spacer high enough to allow it to pass over the tails of the coamings, rather than sandwich it in between them, I could gain additional track length. Time for some more measurements!

Would you be almost as well off the way they used to do it, like this?

That's an interesting thought, Duncan. Real old school! Do you know what size sail that 2 single block and 1 double block setup was designed to handle?

AJ

[Duncan]

AJ, that's the setup I have on both boats, and the blocks aren't very big, either. The mains are 150 square feet on the Westwind and 200 on the Eastwind. Given limited space, the blocks are actually further outboard than you could get a traveller car.

Here's a Westwind running with the main pretty full, and I can picture how it would get centred and flatter as you sheeted in, just the way you'd want, I think.



Here's another Westwind with a traveller - you can see, it's sheeted in hard. I guess he could depower a bit better by sliding the traveller off, since with the old-style "horse", the sail would get fuller as he eased, but I'm not sure everyone needs that degree of control?