Plastic Classic Forum

Some pics of the starting sequence from Saturday...

So you were over early:)

Just kidding, Nice start!

What the hell is up with the line? I suppose that this isn't a W/L race, maybe Point to Point?...

Yeah, a 'round island that happened to be a broad reach out and close reach back. Wind was about 100 degrees to the start and about 150 degrees on the rhumb of the first long leg.

I love offwind starts, the upside-down tactics are refreshing. Not everyone agrees, of course, which is why there are about 20 boats hanging back in the "second row" out of frame to the right.

Nice start. Are your sails a classic color material? They have that off-white cotton look that looks so good on a classic boat

Indeed, "egyptian cream" dacron.

Clicky here for more pics.

Clicky here for better pics.

(I dunno, someone told me people like to look at pics around here)

Fig,

Great pic of you on Page 5

Did they re-calculate the results?

Yeah, the original results spreadsheet had a few glitches, so a few boats traded places with the revised results.
2nd was me.
1st was a Hinterhoeller 25 ketch flying some pretty interesting sails.

The course involved very little upwind work, and the breeze really came on in the last hour.... A great day to be in a slow old boat! 1, 2, and 3 were rated 249, 267, and 251 respectively, the three largest handicaps in the fleet.

Good Work!

Mike,

A Hinterhoeller 25 ketch?? I've never seen an HR25 rigged as a ketch. Could it have been a Hinterhoeller 28? Any pictures?

Congrats on your second place finish.

I could email and ask, but it's listed as a 25 on the scratch sheet and on his PHRF certificate.

Here he is finishing, flying a sail I'd never seen before. He calls it "the mule".


Click for a closer pic of him about to roll me with the Mstaysail flying.

Mike,

It's an HR25 for sure! The HR28 has a raised cabintop like the Triton. All I can say is that guy must like pulling strings - look at all those sails on a 25 foot boat!

My Shark24 is also a Hinterhoeller design. I wonder ...

I've seen another reference to that particular sail as a "mule," so I bet that's its official name (in my case it was someone sailing an Allied Seawind ketch).

Rachel,
That sail is called a Mizzen Staysail, it flies from two halyards and has a sheet, similar to a spinaker setup, I suppose. I'm guessing that because it "works like a mule" when up (really makes a ketch fly off-wind), that's why they call it the mule :-)

The mizzen staysails I'm familiar with are flown flying from the mizzen truck forward to the leeward side deck or toerail. Are you sure that thing in the photo is also called a staysail? Perhaps they call anything flown between the mizzen & main masts a mizzen staysail? William Snaith, of Figaro fame, said that, while it could pull pretty strongly, it was useful over such a narrow point of sail that its primary function was to psych-out his sloop rigged competitors with a cloud of sail.

Oh, I thought a "mizzen staysail" was a sail that flew forward of (but from) the mizzen and was shaped more like a "normal" sail. This one seems to fly (mostly) from the mainmast, and has an "upside down" shape. I thought that might be what made it a mule (then again, what do I know, I've never had a ketch).

It is, indeed, a mule. It's a holdover from the schooner hey-day as just another sail to use to fill the space up there. Goes nicely with a mizzenstaysail and topsail. According to wikipedia, "A staysail or gaff topsail schooner may carry a fisherman (a four sided fore and aft sail) above the main staysail or foresail, or a triangular mule."

Although, looking again, normally a mule doesn't carry all the way to the deck, I don't believe.

Figment wrote:He calls it "the mule".


Click for a closer pic of him about to roll me with the Mstaysail flying.

Is that a wishbone in the center of that mule, or just stitching/seam? And does he set it off a furler, or hoist it each time? I've seen them set on furlers before--very handy.

That's a ton of sail on that little boat! She must move right along; no wonder he rolled you!

"k, maybe I was wrong. It wouldn't be the first time :-) The literature I had for our old Harstad Ketch showed that sail as a mizzen staysail. Perhaps I read something wrong.

As an aside to a larger exchange, I asked the same question about the wishbone. Never got a straight answer. I also never got close enough to that sail to see one way or the other, but the more I think about it the more I think it's a batten at most, probably just a seam. It's not on a furler. I think it's hanked to the mainmast backstay, but it might be set flying. I'm told it's quite the PITA to set and strike.

"useful over a narrow point of sail" is right. I'm told that most of the 8-mile leg was spent debating if the mule was helping or hurting because it was imparting so much weather helm. Note that the mizzen is quite eased in the photo above.

Tim wrote: no wonder he rolled you!

...and if the cheeky bugger tries that move in something other than a "just for fun" race, he'll eat his pretty mizzen staysail for lunch!

Pass to LEEWARD, folks. A luffing match costs the faster boat more than the slower boat.

I can set my mizzen staysail from as deep as the working jib will go down wind. about 150 degrees off the wind, I've had it up in 25 knots. gotta steer but that's sailing. I have gotten the speedo up to 9 knots going down a wave. In winds under 15 knots I can take it up above a beam reach. about 60 degrees off the wind. That is about 90 degrees of use, and it adds at least .5 knots. Jibing is a project but again thats sailing. The "mule" looks like it might add some power but I would think it is both smaller and sets less well off the wind as the mizzen staysail. I think a stay sail can be set off the fore mast, the main mast, and the mizzen mast, of a ship.

r

Thought I'd post this link to a slideshow for the 2008 race.

Conditions weren't so favorable for the slow old boats this year, especially those that haven't had a bottom scrub since July. Nice day for boat photos, though.